What will be fishable first? Early July predictions?

[Troutsource]

Upper Sac (Dog Creek / Delta)
McCloud
Pit 3
Truckee
Yuba - NF
Yuba - main stem
Battle Creek

And any date predictions or predictions for early July? Fishable means consistently fishable in a non-hazardous manner for at least a week (no snowmelt/turbidity issues, no abnormal difficulty wading). Fishable enough so that you'd be willing to plan, as you write your post, to a rare 3-day trip with friends traveling from out of state, getting in on the earliest action before the river is crawling with fishermen.

I remember a few years back the Upper Sac wasn't fishable until early July. The Fly Shop made the declaration on their web site, and we hauled ass and fished it the next day and it was on fire with caddis in the lower sections. Hoping to get out in early July again, but not sure what will be on tap (besides Rolling Rock).

I'm going to throw my poorly educated guesses out there:

Upper Sac (Dog Creek / Delta) -- July 5
McCloud -- June 25
Pit 3 -- June 20
Truckee -- June 15
Yuba - NF -- June 15
Yuba - main stem -- June 10
Battle Creek -- June 20

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Averagely the McCloud River will fish first out of that group, then the Upper Sac, Truckee and NF Yuba.

Early in cold high water I would fish in the afternoons.

In cold water early and late is not usually that good.

Fish a big black heavy #4/6 stone fly nymph and a #12/14 Prince nymph on 3x.

Try some big adult stones in the warm afternoons.

Just some ideas.....the folks who are not experts or guides.

Nice to find water over 50 degrees?

.

[PV_Premier]

Too early to say. First let's see how much snow melts in this heat wave this week.

But I'll tell you what I'm doing for 4th of July weekend. Headed to Smoky Mtn national park to harass some brookies.

[hwchubb]

Even last year the North Fork Yuba was WAYYY up in mid, June, though we found a few fish along the edges (spots that were bone dry at normal flows). May be mid-July this year. Planning my first High Sierra trip for the end of July.

[cdevine]

If you can recall 2010-11 that is probably your best gauge because this year has been like no other. I really think we are talking July and later for some freestone streams. 200% of normal is not normal! Truckee is at 5k plus right now which its never been for this long this deep in the year. We still have 20 feet plus of snow!

Agree that mccloud and upper sac will be fishable earlier than places like north yuba and truckee as defined by "fishable" flows in your opening remarks. All I know is late summer and fall will be awesome this year. And quite frankly spring has been very good if you can find softer edges.

Good luck!!

[Jeff F]

I believe PG&E is doing some work on the Pit #3 dam/tunnels and that's why the flows have been up on that stretch (500cfs+). Normal is like 350cfs or so. From what I've heard, once they finish the work, the flows will come down to "normal". #4 and #5 are raging and probably won't come down for a while. And knowing how greedy PG&E is, they're gonna milk all the power they can get outta this high water year. They don't give a rats ass about fishermen. Same with the NF Feather.

[yankeefanbob]

I believe PG&E is doing some work on the Pit #3 dam/tunnels and that's why the flows have been up on that stretch (500cfs+). Normal is like 350cfs or so. From what I've heard, once they finish the work, the flows will come down to "normal". #4 and #5 are raging and probably won't come down for a while. And knowing how greedy PG&E is, they're gonna milk all the power they can get outta this high water year. They don't give a rats ass about fishermen. Same with the NF Feather.


Agreed!!! :(

[yubaman]

Several years ago when we had some big snow, I took the opportunity to billy goat it into some of the creeks below snowline in the American River drainage. I figured the creeks below snowline had to settle down first. The fishing was excellent at the time, with some large fish in small water, and lots of fish period. Some of these creeks just don't get hit. One of these was Shirttail Creek, which goes into the NF American just south of Weimar.

Most of the creeks were some pretty aggressive hiking with over 1000' elevation climbs to get to. I imagine with the water conditions the last 3 years, there has probably been some severe die-off in these small creeks, and the trout population maybe all but nonexistent for a couple of years. Too bad.

With those climbs in and out of some of these places, Unfortunately, I'm not investing that kind of physical work at 57 years old to prospect and find out. But if someone younger wants to . . .

[Troutsource]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

Sounds like the McCloud and Upper Sac are the best bets. I guess the McCloud drainage is more aquifer-based than most. Someone said once that the majority of the flow in late summer comes from water that entered the aquifer several years earlier.

Any thoughts on the Lower Yuba or Battle Creek? Or Deer Creek for that matter -- I've heard good things but never been there. Hopefully the Yuba doesn't take too long to recover from the scouring it got.

Hopefully Pit 3 is back to normal flows by July. I think it's the most prolific water I've ever fished, though my body pays a price.

Since moving out here from the eastern US (grew up fishing in PA) over 15 yrs ago, I've been obsessed with the bigger more western water (with bigger fish) that was rare back home. But maybe this will be the year to do some experimenting. I have fished the Rubicon once near the bridge in low water where we could scamper upstream -- that was really nice, but there were 8 million mosquitoes, and a bat bounced off our windshield on the drive home (at which point we closed our windows).

We are definitely spoiled by riches out here. Back east, a much higher percentage of the water slows way down or becomes unfishable by mid/later summer. And the season is much shorter with a faster onset of fall (though I guess lots of streams are fishable earlier since there's not as much snowmelt). The most "western" river I ever fished back there was the Upper Delaware -- bottom release and technically fishable year-round, I think. I'd be curious if anyone here has ever fished the Delaware or Penn's Creek or Slate Run in PA.

[yubaman]

Never have fished either. I have been told that the aquifer cycle up on the McCloud is 60 years! I suspect that is true. I think the Yuba will run very, very high all summer. At 8K-9K flows right now, it is really unfishable. I suspect it will be fishable, at very high flows in the summer. My guess would be around 4K.

[Jared]

I have been curious about where I'd be able to wade fish as well. My go to spot is up at the hammond grove park on the yuba. I was kinda hoping to get out there tomorrow to check it out but I'm thinking maybe that would be a pointless drive now. I moved to the area about a year ago and haven't done much exploring of fishable waters so I'll be keeping an eye on this post.

[PV_Premier]

I have been curious about where I'd be able to wade fish as well. My go to spot is up at the hammond grove park on the yuba. I was kinda hoping to get out there tomorrow to check it out but I'm thinking maybe that would be a pointless drive now. I moved to the area about a year ago and haven't done much exploring of fishable waters so I'll be keeping an eye on this post.

Yes don't bother driving out to the Yuba. It's running 12,000cfs which is about 5-6x higher than a safely wadeable flow. Usually when it gets high, it's also muddy, but it's been high for so long that it might be clear, I don't know.

The Truckee and the Little Truckee are the most reliable games in town. They're also very high and not safely waded, but lots of fish accessible from the bank.

Small creeks in the foothills are also an option. Look for spring creeks that start below 5000' elevation and really better if they start way lower than that. (For water temp reasons)

[Troutsource]

Sounds like we need to wait and see how the melting season goes.

I'm also curious to see if the average fish size is. For some reason, I've had the most incredible fishing the last 3 years on the Yuba, Pit and Truckee -- big fish, and lots of them (especially the Yuba and Truckee). I don't know why -- maybe there was some food chain consolidation with the big guys eating the little ones, who had fewer places to hide? Or maybe the drought had an adverse impact on reproduction? In any event, I just hope fish size doesn't go back to the way it was before the drought.

And it wasn't just me. My brother was with me on all of these trips, with the same results. Maybe we're both just getting better with age.

[Jared]

I ended up driving out to fish the Truckee last sunday. I looked around a bit in the main town area of the river and down towards that walk bridge area and it was flowing pretty high and swift but I have never seen the "normal" flows so I can't say HOW high and swift. I decided to check out the south yuba on my way back. It was much more fishable with some slow spots and nice pools and riffle sections but I was hiking through snow and the water was around 38F. Beautiful drive but kind of a bust. I am kind of curious what you folks have to say about the Cosumnes? I went down to Amador county yesterday for a day of wine tasting and noticed that below the 16 bridge (I think) looked very fishy!

[yubaman]

The South Yuba is very hit and miss through the different reservoirs up there off of I-80, my experience anyways. Looks beautiful, but not a lot of fish.

[cdevine]

The South Yuba is very hit and miss through the different reservoirs up there off of I-80, my experience anyways. Looks beautiful, but not a lot of fish.

Same experience here. Don't waste your time with the S.Yuba.

The truckee is at historical record highs this late in the season. Its been consistently flowing in the 4-5k range below boca for a good 2 months now. Near truckee normal is in the 300-400 CFS range this time of the year and its at 2k right now so yeah its super big. (but totally fishable and some days very good)

Unfortunately you probably should have stayed and fished the truckee.

[Bob Loblaw]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

Sounds like the McCloud and Upper Sac are the best bets. I guess the McCloud drainage is more aquifer-based than most. Someone said once that the majority of the flow in late summer comes from water that entered the aquifer several years earlier.

Any thoughts on the Lower Yuba or Battle Creek? Or Deer Creek for that matter -- I've heard good things but never been there. Hopefully the Yuba doesn't take too long to recover from the scouring it got.

Hopefully Pit 3 is back to normal flows by July. I think it's the most prolific water I've ever fished, though my body pays a price.

Since moving out here from the eastern US (grew up fishing in PA) over 15 yrs ago, I've been obsessed with the bigger more western water (with bigger fish) that was rare back home. But maybe this will be the year to do some experimenting. I have fished the Rubicon once near the bridge in low water where we could scamper upstream -- that was really nice, but there were 8 million mosquitoes, and a bat bounced off our windshield on the drive home (at which point we closed our windows).

We are definitely spoiled by riches out here. Back east, a much higher percentage of the water slows way down or becomes unfishable by mid/later summer. And the season is much shorter with a faster onset of fall (though I guess lots of streams are fishable earlier since there's not as much snowmelt). The most "western" river I ever fished back there was the Upper Delaware -- bottom release and technically fishable year-round, I think. I'd be curious if anyone here has ever fished the Delaware or Penn's Creek or Slate Run in PA.

I met a geologist a few years ago while fishing Burney Creek and she told me the water in some of the aquifers has ben underground 40 years or more. They can tell how long almost to the month. Every time a nuclear weapon is tested it releases a unique isotope all across the planet. Water deep underground doesn't pick it up...so they can date the water if it has an isotope from the bomb detonated in October 1957 but not the one detonated in September that year.

[Frank R. Pisciotta]

Trout Source----I clicked-on to your web-site today. The last entry is 2012. Do you have any current updates?

Frank R. Pisciotta
www.cyberfly.com
530-587-7333

[Troutsource]

Frank, Unfortunately I had to drop the effort due to other obligations in life... Thanks for asking.

I tought about adding a wiki feature wherby others could add content, but never got around to it.

Paul

[Troutsource]

I met a geologist a few years ago while fishing Burney Creek and she told me the water in some of the aquifers has ben underground 40 years or more. They can tell how long almost to the month. Every time a nuclear weapon is tested it releases a unique isotope all across the planet. Water deep underground doesn't pick it up...so they can date the water if it has an isotope from the bomb detonated in October 1957 but not the one detonated in September that year.

So that explains the three-eyed brown I caught on the McCloud.

[Frank R. Pisciotta]

Paul---thanks, I appreciate the reply. I try to stay in-tune with all reports; most especially the Truckee area.

Frank R. Pisciotta
www.cyberfly.com
530-587-7333

[Frank R. Pisciotta]

My prognosis on Truckee area fly angling conditions are pretty much spot-on relative to this excerpt of my blog entry "Musing About Spring 2017" (http://flyfishingcalifornia.blogspot.com/2017/03/musing-about-spring-2017.html):

"...the Spring of 2017 in the Truckee area will be the REVERSE of Spring of 2014. Angling and/or water conditions will be a minimum of four (4) weeks later than a "normal" season...possibly even 6-8 weeks later."

...Been plying the local waters and I'm going to confirm that we're beyond the minimum four weeks behind relative to a "normal" season. Now I can verify the 6-8 weeks later seems to be about right. My favorite Brookie creeks are just on the cusp of optimum conditions relative to flows and water temperatures.

Frank R. Pisciotta

[Troutsource]

Anyone think early July will be too early for the Upper Sac or McCloud?

[cyama]

Both the Upper Sac and McCloud are fishing. One of Kienes competitors blogs has guide reports. Usually very informative as they are guide reports. Can't say whoooo....

[cdevine]

Both the Upper Sac and McCloud are fishing. One of Kienes competitors blogs has guide reports. Usually very informative as they are guide reports. Can't say whoooo....


Mccloud is amazing. Just got back. I will post a report tomorrow. Might be the most fishable area in the north state in terms of moving water. Upper Sac is still on bigger side. Give it 2 weeks.

[cyama]

The upper sac is usually best before it drops to where most people fish it???? Take off the indicator and fish it like a Jedi.

[bigfly]

The upper sac is usually best before it drops to where most people fish it???? Take off the indicator and fish it like a Jedi.

This is the kind of post makes me wish for a like button.....
All these rivers fish well in bigger water.
Some of the nicest fish of the year are to be had....
Get your Jedi fisher going...
July?????? Ya, maybe for dinks on a dry...

On second thought...better wait for Aug...
Might be better then....
Heck....with these flows, maybe Sept this year...:)
Apologies...for needling....we fish year-round because...
...it's always better, before its perfect...

Unless they drop the flows below 1600cfs in the next 5 days you will not be blithely wading the T. on the 15th.
Never know about those pesky Green Drakes though.............

Jim

[JasonB]

The upper sac is usually best before it drops to where most people fish it???? Take off the indicator and fish it like a Jedi.

Well put, this goes for a few fisheries I can think of.
JB

[Troutsource]

I believe PG&E is doing some work on the Pit #3 dam/tunnels and that's why the flows have been up on that stretch (500cfs+). Normal is like 350cfs or so. From what I've heard, once they finish the work, the flows will come down to "normal". #4 and #5 are raging and probably won't come down for a while. And knowing how greedy PG&E is, they're gonna milk all the power they can get outta this high water year. They don't give a rats ass about fishermen. Same with the NF Feather.

Jeff or anyone else, any word on the Pit, especially #3? Since that watershed is more rain-based (vs. snowmelt-based), is it stabilizing now? With a high water year, will it be higher than last year, or with all of the pumping and diverting will it be pretty much the same?

[Jeff F]

Jeff or anyone else, any word on the Pit, especially #3? Since that watershed is more rain-based (vs. snowmelt-based), is it stabilizing now? With a high water year, will it be higher than last year, or with all of the pumping and diverting will it be pretty much the same?

I check Dreamflows daily. The Pit is coming down to fishable flows, especially #3. It's running at 398cfs. I like it around 320cfs, but it's definitely fishable now. #4 is over 600cfs, which is too high imho. I like it around 420cfs. #5......forget about it. Way too high.

It's gonna be tough getting around on the Pit this summer due to the road closure. So if you wanna camp at the campground on #4 and still fish #3, you'd have to go all the way down to Big Bend, then up to Hwy 299, over to Burney, then down to #3. So I guess most folks would just fish #3 this year and not camp, just stay in Burney or somewhere else.

On the good side, these fish haven't seen many flies since last October. So the fishing should be really good once the flows come down a bit. A few more weeks, it should be all good.

~Jeff

[cdevine]

I check Dreamflows daily. The Pit is coming down to fishable flows, especially #3. It's running at 398cfs. I like it around 320cfs, but it's definitely fishable now. #4 is over 600cfs, which is too high imho. I like it around 420cfs. #5......forget about it. Way too high.

It's gonna be tough getting around on the Pit this summer due to the road closure. So if you wanna camp at the campground on #4 and still fish #3, you'd have to go all the way down to Big Bend, then up to Hwy 299, over to Burney, then down to #3. So I guess most folks would just fish #3 this year and not camp, just stay in Burney or somewhere else.

On the good side, these fish haven't seen many flies since last October. So the fishing should be really good once the flows come down a bit. A few more weeks, it should be all good.

~Jeff


I was just up there and this is my opinion and based on my experience but I would fish them as such. But in all honesty you can't go wrong and Pit is big but most people are lazy and if you put work in you will be tossing fies to fish that haven't been touched.

1. Mccloud
2. Hat
3. Upper Sac
4. Pit

Upper Sac is very fishy now below 1000. Lots of water opens up. It could spike a tad next week if these 100+ days come thru.

Double digit days should be expected on the Mccloud, Sac, and Pit if you do your homework and bring your game.

[Troutsource]

I check Dreamflows daily. The Pit is coming down to fishable flows, especially #3. It's running at 398cfs. I like it around 320cfs, but it's definitely fishable now. #4 is over 600cfs, which is too high imho. I like it around 420cfs. #5......forget about it. Way too high.

On the good side, these fish haven't seen many flies since last October. So the fishing should be really good once the flows come down a bit. A few more weeks, it should be all good.

~Jeff


I was just up there and this is my opinion and based on my experience but I would fish them as such. But in all honesty you can't go wrong and Pit is big but most people are lazy and if you put work in you will be tossing fies to fish that haven't been touched.

1. Mccloud
2. Hat
3. Upper Sac
4. Pit

Upper Sac is very fishy now below 1000. Lots of water opens up. It could spike a tad next week if these 100+ days come thru.

Double digit days should be expected on the Mccloud, Sac, and Pit if you do your homework and bring your game.

Drool now forming

[Troutsource]

OK, so how do I get the latest about the Pit 3/4 area road closure? Will this last all summer?

At some point we may all have cheap mini-drones to help us scout upstream and downstream before entering the water -- looking for rising fish, good pools, dangerous water, other fishermen. I wonder if hunters already use them for scouting. They could even be equipped with light artillery to clear the air of bats. Subarmine versions could look for fish density and feeding behavior.