Are the yellowstone rod shootouts useful?

[luckydude]

I've heard rumors that they are pretty "fixed", the main guy helps design the rods and then those rods are featured.

I did buy a Hardy Zenith a few years back, 5 wt, that I love. Probably gives me another 15 feet over a less capable rod and it has a nice soft tip so you don't break off very much.

I'm looking for a 7 weight for streamers and mice patterns. Current stuff that I have and like (gives you an idea, maybe, of my tastes):

Hardy Zenith 9 foot 5 wt - excellent rod
Sage Vantage 7.5 foot and 9 foot 3wt - the shorter one is awesome, the longer one, well, a 9 foot 3wt is asking a lot
Sage 9 foot 5 wt Z-axis - this is a stiff rod, you have to over line it to 6 wt and then it's fine. Landed a 32 inch bully with this

So so stuff:

St Croix Legend 4wt - it's OK, not fantastic
St Croix Imperial 4wt - it's so-so, good rod to have as a loaner or for your kids

Yuck:

Sage 9 foot RPL 5 wt. Very old tech, heavy in the hand.
Loomis something 5 wt - never warmed up to this rod

Any suggestions for a nice 7 wt?

Thanks.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Everyone has a slightly different casting stroke or casting style so I don't believe anyone will be able to pick a fly rod for someone else.

Our staff at Kiene's American Fly Fishing Company are all very good fly casters. When they are thinking about getting a new or another fly rod, they will take the time to cast many different rods until they find one that cast well for them. In many cases these will be different rods for different staff members.

The people that do these shoot-outs mean well but for me they are not of any value except to know what rods to keep in stock because these shoot-outs do impact rod sales. None of the rods they choose in these shoot-outs are bad rods.

.

[John Sv]

I have a St Croix Bank Robber in the 7 that I am very happy with FWIW
Soft tip, not too fast but fast

[tcorfey]

First question are the Yellowstone shootouts useful?

In my opinion they are useful as it brings many rods different rods together so you can compare specifications and price points in one place. That is useful to determine which rods you want to try.

Are they final choices biased, absolutely the casters have a definite bias towards the rods that are best for them and we are all guilty of that. The reviews also only cover the casting accuracy and distance aspects of the rods. In the tests they do not fish with each of the rods so issues such as mending and fish fighting are not covered. Also the number 1 rod is usually assisted in it's design by the owner of the Yellowstone Angler so yes it is a rod he really likes to cast. Not necessarily a bad thing just something to keep in mind. They also test the same line on all of the rods and as we know no one line is the perfect match for every rod. The right line can really make a rod feel great and the wrong line can really make a rod feel horrible. I always test rods with my own lines and usually several in the same weight and sometimes under-line or over-line a rod. Just to see how it reacts.

As far as choosing a rod that is right for you, look at the reviews the YA did on the rod you like and own right now. Then look for rods with similar characteristics to try. As Bill said no one can choose a rod for you and there are so many good rods out there at many price points. Many times I have gone in to a shop to try one rod and ended up buying something completely different.

So taking your Zenith as an example you may want to try a Helios 2 or a Recon (low-cost alternative to the H2) or a Sage Accel or a Scott Radian. These rods appear to have similar characteristics to your Zenith so they might feel right to you also.

You did not say what species you are going after but assuming you might use this for Steelhead you might also consider trying a longer rod than a 9' std length. For example 9'6" rod may appeal to you especially for tossing streamers.

It costs nothing except time and fuel to test rods, so make sure you find the one that feels right to you before you plunk down the cash. Besides it is fun to go out and test rods.

Regards,

Tim C.

[Carl Blackledge]

I've heard rumors that they are pretty "fixed", the main guy helps design the rods and then those rods are featured.

I did buy a Hardy Zenith a few years back, 5 wt, that I love. Probably gives me another 15 feet over a less capable rod and it has a nice soft tip so you don't break off very much.

I'm looking for a 7 weight for streamers and mice patterns. Current stuff that I have and like (gives you an idea, maybe, of my tastes):

Hardy Zenith 9 foot 5 wt - excellent rod
Sage Vantage 7.5 foot and 9 foot 3wt - the shorter one is awesome, the longer one, well, a 9 foot 3wt is asking a lot
Sage 9 foot 5 wt Z-axis - this is a stiff rod, you have to over line it to 6 wt and then it's fine. Landed a 32 inch bully with this

So so stuff:

St Croix Legend 4wt - it's OK, not fantastic
St Croix Imperial 4wt - it's so-so, good rod to have as a loaner or for your kids

Yuck:

Sage 9 foot RPL 5 wt. Very old tech, heavy in the hand.
Loomis something 5 wt - never warmed up to this rod

Any suggestions for a nice 7 wt?

Thanks.

Luckydude,

I 'am not sure the shoot out is "fixed" but it probably is to promote rod sales.

Not sure the shoot out results are very helpful to a beginner who wants to purchase a new rod.

Bill Kiene hit the nail on the head with his post about those results also.

Picking out a rod for somebody else is is like a blind date.....we all cast different and have personal casting stokes.

my 2 cents

Carl

[luckydude]

I have a St Croix Bank robber in the 7 that I am very happy with FWIW
Soft tip, not too fast but fast

That's a $460 rod, right? Should be pretty good for that kind of money.

What have you compared it to?

[luckydude]

Hey Tim,

This was super helpful, thank you very much.

--lm

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

One of my techy friends, Eugene Graham, came into the shop with his new video camera one evening some years ago and said let's shoot a video so I ad-libed this short video on choosing a fly rod.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds_fhBtLm3I

[Terry Thomas]

Useful, sure. I like seeing what's new on the market. As far as their opinions, I can't say that I have ever agreed with their results. If possible, I'd go to your local shop and cast the rods in your budget.

[luckydude]

You did not say what species you are going after but assuming you might use this for Steelhead you might also consider trying a longer rod than a 9' std length. For example 9'6" rod may appeal to you especially for tossing streamers.


I want to swing mice patterns for bass and maybe a bucket list trip to Alaska. And if I ever get back to the Bob Marshall, streamers for bullies.
In any of those situations 9.5 or 10 feet would be better I think, it's not like I'm try to fish in a small brushy stream.

I read a bit about the St Croix bank robber, seems pretty special purpose if it really is streamer only. Is there some reason it wouldn't be good with a WF line and a big mouse pattern? I'm nervous about St Croix, I'd love to support them, I'm from Wisconsin, but I don't fish the St Croix rods I have since buying the Sage Vantage 3wts (the Sage rods will push a fly as far as the St Croix 4wt, or at least it seems like it to me). I get that the bank robber is a different rod, but it's $460 and the other rods you've suggested are more in the $800-900 range. It's still you get what you pay for, more or less, right?

Is there any place in the Bay Area that stocks St Croix as well as Sage and Scott (and ideally I'd like to try the Douglas Sky rod)? Seems like that is asking too much.

[John Sv]

My opinion:
the St Croix is on par with higher end rods including finish (hey they even use winding checks) and the planks are great. They are cheaper because they make a ton of rods in comparison to the boutique brands.
The Bank robber is not a lightning fast telephone pole rod. 7 weight throws a 25 grain line nicely, could probably throw a little more.
I THINK the blank is the same as their legend elite blank with a different finish. Mine throws bass bugs, mice, streamers, nymph rigs all fine.
One thing you have to get used to with this blank (I have two) is the super soft tip. I think it is an advantage for not breaking off fish and fishing within close quarters but some say you have to get used to it.
RE: the yellowstone thing: I bought a St Croix legend elite un casted partly because reading reviews including Y A shootout. Away too stiff for my liking, but I threw a 6 weight line on it and its fine..
YMMV