Low-holers WTF!!!!

[Sheepdog8404]

Went fishing tonight and got low-holed by 2 different fly fishermen. Both of these guys stepped in below me well within my swinging distance. I expect that crap from the meat harvesting bait chuckers but not fly fishermen... Get some damn free education on fishing etiquette when you go purchase your $800 fishing outfit.

If you need to slide in below someone at least have the decency to walk up to the person before hand and see if they are ok with you doing it. More often than not, they will be happy to share the hole with you and will be very grateful that you had the balls and the decency to approach them and ask. But for god sakes, don't just move in below them and act like it's all fine and dandy.

Sorry for the rant!

[Mark Kranhold]

That's really why I don't fish Shad ,I can't stand the crowds and they're only Shad. I would rather swing in solitude, it's my way of unwinding from life! One grab no grabs , just happy to be alone and seeing old blue fly by!

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

You should have seen it 50 years ago on the Lower American River.

30 to 40 fly fishers all lined up down a long run and no one moves.

You get out of the water and someone takes your spot.

That when there were thousands of Shad.

.

[Fly Right]

I've got to admit swinging with a spey rod takes up some room, but the river is "35 MILES long, with easy access through out most of it.
Some are just really lazy for the most part, waiting for someone else to scout out locations and post it here. I to agree, ask first.
I will go out of my way to even help out and work with someone learning how to use a fly rod or spey rod for free.

Agreed on the ask first policy. Shad fishing tends to be a lot more social with higher numbers of anglers fishing in close proximity. Usually during a good run practically everyone is catching fish therefore people are more prone to overlook some of the annoying aspects of fishing in a line up. Ask politely and most people in a crowded shad line up are happy to accommodate. In the recent evenings out on the river it is almost impossible to not "low hole" someone". Folks who show up later tend to find any available spot and get in it. If you had to wait for a spot in the top of the run you probably won't get to fish much. Also I have never seen cast and step down practiced in shad fishing. Just the way it is, this is not steelheading. The option of finding a less crowded spot on the river is always available. You just have to hope the fish are there.

[winxp_man]

Prime example why I don't give info on my fishing spots where I catch fish. :cool:
It somewhat limits this issue.

[Mr.Matt]

like previously mentioned, the river is long and the Shad are everywhere.

Do some walking, get on the water earlier, or just drive 2 miles up or down and find some more fish.

[JD]

It is shad fishing. If you can't stand the crowds, you are in the wrong game.

Ran into a spey guy last week that must have thought it was steelhead season, because he felt he owned all the water below him, even though it was clearly beyond his rather mediocre casting ability. Probably going to be a growing problem as more people use two-handed rods which seemingly demand a bit more room.

[itsbenlong]

That's really why I don't fish Shad ,I can't stand the crowds and they're only Shad. I would rather swing in solitude, it's my way of unwinding from life! One grab no grabs , just happy to be alone and seeing old blue fly by!


I feel the same way Mark, although I always enjoy running into some good folks and sharing some water and stories with them along the way. But solitude is key for me while fishing.

Line-ups are a bust for me because I am either in a spot catching fish and feeling bad that others are not, or I am in a spot not catching fish, feeling bad that others are.

There are many places to find these shad outside of these line-ups. Some of them are only good for one maybe two people. The best thing about finding these places is, even if someone walks up above or below you, they will most likely not catch many if any at all and move on to another location.

I find just as much enjoyment and adventure in looking for spots w/ solitude as I do in catching shad.

I also find it a bit boring when I catch one after another, however that is the best time to test out different flies.

There is nothing better than rolling up on a spot without anyone on it, when the river is full of people in all the "best" places and figuring out where to stand for the best swing, finding the right tip, the best fly and start catching fish. I love the challenge and live for the take!

[Terry Thomas]

Yes, shad fishing is a different game from steelhead. Don't get upset with the numbers of anglers. If you're all by yourself, the pods of fish are probably elsewhere as well.

[EricO]

You might have seen my buddy Jeff's post on opening day on the Pit.

Five guys low-holed us when there was plenty of water upstream. We heard
them talking behind us and they promptly went right below. Only karma was
seeing none of them hook fish.

Just gotta laugh that one off.

[fishnchip]

Can someone explain "low holing" a little more?
So if I get a stretch of water and there is someone fishing a spot, anywhere downstream from him is off limits? I should wait and see if the angler is going to work his way down? What if the angler takes his time in the hole before he moves down? Do I sit on the bank and just wait? Do I ask for permission to fish below him?
I've been "low holed" before but I look at it as the angler coming in has no clue if I've fished that spot or not yet or if I'm even going to work my way down. Can't read peoples minds. Sounds like the etiquette would be too ask permission or to sit on the bank and wait it out or just leave and find another spot.
I'm curious what the answers would be. Thanks

[winxp_man]

Can someone explain "low holing" a little more?
So if I get a stretch of water and there is someone fishing a spot, anywhere downstream from him is off limits? I should wait and see if the angler is going to work his way down? What if the angler takes his time in the hole before he moves down? Do I sit on the bank and just wait? Do I ask for permission to fish below him?
I've been "low holed" before but I look at it as the angler coming in has no clue if I've fished that spot or not yet or if I'm even going to work my way down. Can't read peoples minds. Sounds like the etiquette would be too ask permission or to sit on the bank and wait it out or just leave and find another spot.
I'm curious what the answers would be. Thanks

I personally start above any person I come up on in a spot. Now if I'm moving down river and I start getting in close to the fisherman below me I ask him if he is moving down and if it's okay to go down below him. This has never failed me and most say go right on down. This leaves me at a peace of mind that he's okay with it. The simple fact that you ask and are polite about it makes all the difference in the world. But when you barge in its what gets some people pissed. Me personally I don't care because like posted before me I have been low holed and caught fish above the low holers hahaha!

[cyama]

The best thing to do if you get low holed is to stick a fish right in front of them, preferably right between their legs! They usually have just stepped and cast right into the bucket. On a serious note, communication is key here in CA where on any major river and any day people might be fishing close to where you are fishing. If either party starts the discussion then everything starts working out.

[JasonB]

Can someone explain "low holing" a little more?
So if I get a stretch of water and there is someone fishing a spot, anywhere downstream from him is off limits? I should wait and see if the angler is going to work his way down? What if the angler takes his time in the hole before he moves down? Do I sit on the bank and just wait? Do I ask for permission to fish below him?
I've been "low holed" before but I look at it as the angler coming in has no clue if I've fished that spot or not yet or if I'm even going to work my way down. Can't read peoples minds. Sounds like the etiquette would be too ask permission or to sit on the bank and wait it out or just leave and find another spot.
I'm curious what the answers would be. Thanks

There you go, I think you answered your own question well, I just highlighted it in bold. To me the common sense, common courtesy action when you come across another angler already at the water, yield to them. If they're working upriver start below, if they're working downstream start above... ask them which way they're going and if they mind if you step in. Pretty easy usually, though I have had a few odd looks and mumbled responses, most folks are more than willing to share if they feel that their priorities have been respected.
JB

[Sheepdog8404]

To me the common sense, common courtesy action when you come across another angler already at the water, yield to them.
JB

You nailed it right there, Jason!

[johnsquires]

Nailed it, Jason - common sense and common courtesy.
But, like those who don't return shopping carts to the proper place (often blocking a parking space) or those who ignore the 15-item limit sign at a grocery store checkout stand, there will always be violators, those who play by their own rules.

[Mike Stroud]

Good opportunity to politely educate a naive fly fisher new to the sport. On the flip side... this week, I had one young man wade out and ask me if I would share the run with him. So, there are a few good apples out there.

[alcimedor]

Last time out I got there very early and hit the bucket just right. Two nice guys who came later were above me and getting nothing. After catching a bunch I just offered them my spot for a bit. Had a nice leisurely nature call and a drink. Enjoyed watching them catch a some. Then came back and enjoyed there rest of the bite. Good fishing and good feelings beat the stress of combat environment.

[SeanO]

Last time out I got there very early and hit the bucket just right. Two nice guys who came later were above me and getting nothing. After catching a bunch I just offered them my spot for a bit. Had a nice leisurely nature call and a drink. Enjoyed watching them catch a some. Then came back and enjoyed there rest of the bite. Good fishing and good feelings beat the stress of combat environment.

Great post, alcimedor, and welcome to the forum.

[SeanO]

On the thread topic: low holer's gonna low-hole. They don't read forums or at least any posts on forums about low holin'.

:D

At least the fish are shad and there are a bunch of them.

[Blueracer]

Gary,
You've been fishing the rivers in Nor Cal for a while now?
You sound sincerely surprised so maybe not. Either way the forums are alwaysa place to vent, plenty of us feel and relate to your frustration.

[alcimedor]

I have fished a lot on the Olympic Peninsula (before I got married ), some in Oregon, and a lot in California. Low holing etiquette is a lot different from area to area. On the Peninsula except in a very few fall hatchery run spots, If a boat or angler is in the middle of a run, no-one would fish below them without asking. They would pass between you and the bank if safely possible. If you were at the top, a boat might make a few casts while drifting thru the tailout.
The rudest low-holers and jerks I have seen were in Oregon. On The Chetco, a boat would anchor right below you if there was enough physical room. While fishing fall steelhead on the upper Rogue above Shady Cove, I drifted down to one of my favorite ledge rock spots and got out to wade and swing flies. Guided drift boats had their clients cast flies with big indicators right over my line, or even closer to me, and then rowed back upstream and repeated the drift multiple times. Aside from a few casts which I splashed in the water very close to their boat which they seemed not to notice, I avoided other worse temptations.
I don't know how the establishment of what is OK happens, but there must be a way of pushing things back in the right direction before it drives us away, or deteriorates into combat.
One of my favorite runs on the Eel River has almost no good water on it I have never seen another angler there as I enjoy the solitude steelhead fishing.

[Scott V]

Wait til a boat does it to you. Happened to me the other week. 2 older fly guys saw me catching shad and anchored right below me on top of the fish.

Not many motorized boats with fly guys in them on the American. So if your reading this, which you probably are. YOU FREAKING SUCK!!!! PISS OFF YOU MF'ING JERKS!!

They didn't catch a damn thing while I continued to hook up.

[Sheepdog8404]

Gary,
You've been fishing the rivers in Nor Cal for a while now?
You sound sincerely surprised so maybe not. Either way the forums are alwaysa place to vent, plenty of us feel and relate to your frustration.

Thanks Brian. I'm actually native to northern California but still green when it comes to fishing the lower American. I have felt crowded on some trout streams up in the Sierras. But what I have experienced on the American lately during shad season is just unreal.

[bigfly]

I've been on the lookout for paintball filled with capsaicin pepper.....
Just to help with some non-lethal feedback when low-holing looms.....
Maybe get a couple of orange cones Caltrans uses....for up and down the bank.
Although...that may be too much.

Jim

[John Sv]

Lol!!!!
Slow down for the Cone Zone ya low-holin' jacka$$es!!!

I've been on the lookout for paintball filled with capsaicin pepper.....
Just to help with some non-lethal feedback when low-holing looms.....
Maybe get a couple of orange cones Caltrans uses....for up and down the bank.
Although...that may be too much.

Jim

[itsbenlong]

I've been on the lookout for paintball filled with capsaicin pepper.....
Just to help with some non-lethal feedback when low-holing looms.....
Maybe get a couple of orange cones Caltrans uses....for up and down the bank.
Although...that may be too much.

Jim

Orange cones may be too much, but that would be funny as hell. Reminds me of living back home in San Francisco....I used to carry 2 orange cones in my trunk because I would often have to return to a place. I would put the cones out and come back to my parking place. Every once in a while they would be thrown on the sidewalk or stolen, but the city is full of them for the taking.

The boats that sit on your spot are the worst. However, I have been lucky this year and have not had any in my way.

I don't mind if they are close by as long as I can still complete my swing. There have been times mainly on the Feather where I have had them pull right down below me and then row up through my section. Or at least try too.....When they are rude like that, I just change to my "big ugly" fly and start casting over there lines acting all apologetic until they leave.

When boats are moving down my way, I just bomb my casts out far and hope it forces them towards the other side and past me. It works most of the time.

All in all, I have learned that communication goes a long way even if I am the only one doing the communicating. I love it when they act like they don't hear me......

[JasonB]

All in all, I have learned that communication goes a long way even if I am the only one doing the communicating. I love it when they act like they don't hear me......

Had to chuckle on that one, we've probably all been there. A couple weeks ago we had a guide in a drift boat start rowing for a nice little seam ... he pulled up anchor and started rowing when we were about 10-20 from him (we were already well on our way to the same spot). Apparently he couldn't see us, as he made zero acknowledgement that we existed, and as he pulled directly into the slower water almost bumping us out of "his way" he still didn't seem to notice or make any comment in our direction. Then it became unclear if they were or were not going to fish that particular seam, it looked like was still trying to decide. I made the communication to ask what his intentions were (and gently hint that he had just blatantly cut right in front of us), as honestly I wouldn't have really cared that much if he had ASKED if he could have the spot we were so obviously heading to. His response was pretty weak "um, yeah ... I'm working", but even so I'm glad we did communicate, and we just left rather than argue or share water with a jerk. We ended up finding plenty of fish, and with less company (and friendlier company at that).

I do have to say, that it's really not worth getting too upset while shad fishing imo, as it's hardly an experience of solitude. I've accepted that, and I have plenty of fun chaos and all... just have to lower expectations (a lot). Now if someone did that sort of thing up in the mountains on a more secluded trout stream, that's a whole other story! Not sure why some folks are just plain oblivious, nor do I understand the mentality of those who do know better but do that kind of crap anyways. I fail to see how much fun it would be, no matter how many fish I caught if I knew that I had caught them while being a total ass to some other people. Not my idea of a good time...
JB

[SeanO]

nor do I understand the mentality of those who do know better but do that kind of crap anyways.
JB

JB,

I am convinced the rude guides/boaters/anglers are immune to their rudeness and simply want to fish in their comfort zone that held fish last year or yesterday. Sounds like you did the best you could and took the high road.

Take care,

[ZWhit]

Had a young man, nice guy actually, ask to stand next to me as I started to reel a couple in. Literally, he stood only a few feet into my back cast (Skagit). (By ask, I mean he came down stream without hesitation or waiting for an answer.) Because he seemed nice when I talked with him, I gave him some pointers and moved up into the prime spot he just left and scored many shad!! My question is: does that make me a high-holer? Lol.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Yes, and a good guy too.