Fall/Winter Steelhead --- Best Skagit Head

[Idadon]

Cabela's #6 TLR Switch Rod. I've decided to line my spare spool with Rio Slickshooter and a Skagit head. Seems the two popular choices are the Rio Skagit Max Short (425 gr) and the Airflo Skagit Compact (420). I figure on picking up 2-4 tips and try to cover most situations. I've already got a Rio Switch for light weight fly situations. Mostly looking for negatives for either of these heads keeping in mind I'm an experienced single hand but novice/intermediate switch. Should I go up in grains or are these weights good.

I guess I should add that I might fish anywhere between Washington down to the Russian in California. Maybe even the Lower Deschutes, Clearwater and usually the Salmon. Won't know for sure till I get there.

[speyfool]

Cabela's #6 TLR Switch Rod. I've decided to line my spare spool with Rio Slickshooter and a Skagit head. Seems the two popular choices are the Rio Skagit Max Short (425 gr) and the Airflo Skagit Compact (420). I figure on picking up 2-4 tips and try to cover most situations. I've already got a Rio Switch for light weight fly situations. Mostly looking for negatives for either of these heads keeping in mind I'm an experienced single hand but novice/intermediate switch. Should I go up in grains or are these weights good.

I guess I should add that I might fish anywhere between Washington down to the Russian in California. Maybe even the Lower Deschutes, Clearwater and usually the Salmon. Won't know for sure till I get there.

I'm not sure about grain weights for that rod. But, I'd suggest using an intermediate sinking skagit head. I decided to give it a shot several years ago and have never gone back to a floating skagit.

[TaylerW]

OPST Commando heads are it!

[Rick J]

I am a big fan of RIO Skagit max and really like the shorts for most of my fishing. As others have mentioned - not sure grain weight for that rod - if you have a chance to try might be good unless you have already tried that grain weight on that rod and like it

Regarding the OPST and the RIO Skagit trout lines - these are short heads - RIO are only 11 feet and OPST lengths vary but the 425 I think is around 16.5' - they are mainly ideal for real tight quarters or if you want to cast and impart a stripping action to the fly _ ie streamers for trout so not sure that would be my first choice for swinging for steelhead.

Regarding tips - if you want a floater plus sinking would likely look to the MOW T11 - floating, 2.5x7.5; 5x5 and 7.5x2.5 - if you want full sink just get coils of T11 and make your won - maybe 10' and 12' tips

[Idadon]

The OPST site recommends a 300 grain head for my rod weight but the the Rio site recommends a 425-450 grain head. I know the Rio site is taking into account I am using a two-hand. I'm wondering if the OPST site is basing their weights on a single hand rod. They have 425 grain heads but this weight is recommended for 8-9 weights? ??????

Good advise about the tips! Thinking I'm going to do that. You know, fixed income and all that.

[Rick J]

The OPST lines recommend much lighter grains than typical for Skagit heads and for some reason it seems to work. The 300 grain is even shorter so not sure I would go the OPST route

[lake flyer]

I have that rod and am using an Airflo Skagit 390 gr and using 10 ft tips.

[Idadon]

That line at 22.5' + a 10' tip at least makes your length in the accepted range of 3x Rod length. Seems kind of light from what I've been told but if it works good deal. I'm starting to think this whole Spey thing was invented to drive me nuts. Not being one to avoid a challenge I am committed to figuring out Skagit Line mechanics. I'm now looking at making my own tips and maybe some cheaters to match them (should I need a cheater). While on the subject does anyone out there know what a floating cheater would be made from?

[Rick J]

do you have any access to any old single hand floating fly lines? Just cut off the first 10 or 12 feet or might want to trim some of the taper off the front before cutting it to length you want - I have several of them I made up to 15'

[Idadon]

I do have some old lines. Good idea! I see them at garage sales all the time too. I even have a couple of Rio Grand Spey experimental lines I can chop up. Thanks!

That gives me another idea. Could I use the back of one of those Grand Speys as a shooting line. Not sure how long the level backend is but might be long enough.

[Rick J]

could try it but I for one am not a fan of the plastic shooting lines - I just use Berkeley Big Game Solar Green - really cheap and replaceable - anywhere from 20# to 40# depending on grain head I am using

[Idadon]

I grew up using Amnesia like a lot of guys. Can't say as I ever had any problems with the stuff. Older arthritic hands might could better handle something like the Gripshooter. I think something with low stretch would be an advantage. Just so many choices!

[Rick J]

your reasons are sound for going to a plastic running line - but Big Game has much less stretch than amnesia - totally a different animal

PS - will send you a message shortly

Best
Rick

[TaylerW]

Opst heads are lighter because they are "driver forward" while rio lines are "driver rear"

[briansII]

I do have some old lines. Good idea! I see them at garage sales all the time too. I even have a couple of Rio Grand Spey experimental lines I can chop up. Thanks!

That gives me another idea. Could I use the back of one of those Grand Speys as a shooting line. Not sure how long the level backend is but might be long enough.

Those old Grand Spey lines have no contemporary equal, and somewhat prized by long line casters. IMHO, I would not chop those lines up, and end up with a head that MIGHT work. There are so many excellent skagit choice for your rod, and no more Grand Speys.

Do a search on OPST Commando heads. You will see that they do run light, and work extremely well. Better yet, give them a call/email and they can recommend the head you need. Nextcast has a very nice skagit head called Zone. Give the guys at Kiene's a call, and they can set you up with either head.

briansII

[Idadon]

So, what I'm hearing here and researched about the OPST Cammando is that a lighter, shorter head with a radical weight distribution profile (forward driver) is better. It will require changing your cast but worth it because the rigs lighter weight requires less energy. Price is about the same and it can do everything from nymphing/bobber fishing to throwing heavy flys with sink tips. This means I can stop carrying an extra spool with my Rio switch line and just get a floating tip? Sounds pretty good to me!! Especially since I'm just getting into the Skagit process.

one other question, with this OPST line would I still need to worry about my line-Rod length ratio? Or is that out the window?

Anyway, I like learning new STUFF especially when it makes things easier and catches more fish. Keep the ideas coming!

[Rick J]

Don - if you decide to go with the OPST - length factor should not be a problem with a switch - just remember to keep a "VERY" compact stroke and keep well "in the box"!!! These are effortless as are the RIO Trout skagits which are even shorter

Know this will add even more stripping than a typical 20' or so short skagit

[troutless]

The OPST site recommends a 300 grain head for my rod weight but the the Rio site recommends a 425-450 grain head. I know the Rio site is taking into account I am using a two-hand. I'm wondering if the OPST site is basing their weights on a single hand rod. They have 425 grain heads but this weight is recommended for 8-9 weights? ??????



Have not cast the OPST heads, but, just to point out:

The OPST commando is 300gr@15' = 20gr/ft.

The Rio Skagit Max Short is 425gr@20' = 20.25gr/ft.

Not as different as appears on the surface. Raw grain weight in different length lines is not necessarily comparable.

[troutless]

Opst heads are lighter because they are "driver forward" while rio lines are "driver rear"

That doesn't make any sense. Elaborate.

[troutless]

So, what I'm hearing here and researched about the OPST Cammando is that a lighter, shorter head with a radical weight distribution profile (forward driver) is better. It will require changing your cast but worth it because the rigs lighter weight requires less energy. Price is about the same and it can do everything from nymphing/bobber fishing to throwing heavy flys with sink tips. This means I can stop carrying an extra spool with my Rio switch line and just get a floating tip? Sounds pretty good to me!! Especially since I'm just getting into the Skagit process.


There is no free lunch. If you are utilizing stripped-fly tactics on relatively small rivers e.g. trout an ultra-short skagit head is a great idea. If you are pursuing dry-line swung-fly tactics on big-water steelhead rivers it's an awful idea. Be skeptical of anyone pushing a one-size-fits-all line solution, particularly if it is at an extreme of the line spectrum.

Rick has already given good advice about casting short heads. You have to be disciplined and smooth in your casting or bad things will happen, blown anchors, flies in the bushes, flies in yourself if you have a tendency to hook the cast. IMO ultra-short heads are specialist tools for intermediate+ grade casters, my personal advice to new casters is to avoid them.

[Idadon]

In other words, me, trying to develop a good Skagit technique with an OPST Cammando might be like putting a student pilot in a F-18 and sending him out to a Dogfight? Probably right. I think a nice tame Airflo Skagit Compact might be the way to go. The length seems good and they get good reviews. One of the earlier posts expressed the opinion that an intermediate head is better, something like a Rio Iflight. Anymore opinions on that point?

[Rick J]

The I lines are great but if I only had one line I would go with a floater as you can do more things with the floater including skate dries!

[troutless]

In other words, me, trying to develop a good Skagit technique with an OPST Cammando might be like putting a student pilot in a F-18 and sending him out to a Dogfight?


That might be a bit extreme of an analogy. Maybe like a DC-3. A 15' 12-wt and 72' competition head, that would be like an F-18.



I think a nice tame Airflo Skagit Compact might be the way to go. The length seems good and they get good reviews. One of the earlier posts expressed the opinion that an intermediate head is better, something like a Rio Iflight. Anymore opinions on that point?

Again, it depends on the definition of 'better'. Both floating skagit heads, full intermediates, as well as the ones with floating back section and intermediate front, all have their sweet spots and are not fully interchangeable. Intermediates will sink under surface currents and generally get pushed around less, thus slowing the swing. But once sunk they are also more difficult to control, may add more depth than you want, in places where you don't want if you don't have a nice long even run. I often carry both a floater and an intermediate. Though I tend to fish the intermediates more, I too would take a floater if I had only one line.

My personal preference also leans to the Airflo lines. But really the space for design innovation in such a short head is somewhat limited. It is not like long bellies where small differences in design can separate a turkey from an arrow.

[speyfool]

One of the earlier posts expressed the opinion that an intermediate head is better, something like a Rio Iflight. Anymore opinions on that point?

The reason I brought up the int skagit is that it sounded like you wanted to sink flies with various tips. If you only want one line to fish the whole water column all year round, including skating flies. It isn't going to fly. Personally I have a half dozen lines for my primary rod, but only fish two anymore. One is the int compact (airflo) skagit and a Rage line for surface or near surface work in the summer. Pretty much everything is covered imo. From heavily weighted 6 inch flies w/ T14 tips (btw- the reason I use an int skagit is that I can have lighter tips to get to the same depth) to skating on that Rage. Sure you can skate a fly with a floating skagit, but personally, I prefer a more delicate experience in summer.

[Idadon]

Good info, all! I'm trying really hard to resist the temptation of several new heads. I already have a Switch and that covers the Nymphing techniques as long as I don't try to use anything bigger then microscopic splitshot with a #8 fly. In fact that Switch line will likely work to skate a fly and it definetly works for swinging small stuff for half pounders. Just a side note here; in 50+ years of steelheading I've only caught 4 fish skating a fly and 3 of those could be classified as accidental. You know, the fly breaks the surface at the end of the swing and BOOM! One fish on the Deschutes on a Waller Waker was planned that way. So waking is not necessarily a reason for me to purchase a separate line.

As to the choice between a floating vs. an intermediate Skagit. I think a floating suits me better. Airflo makes some 10' tips that have a short section (2.5') of intermediate on the back that sounds good to me. A medium sink tip and a dredger like a t-14 should cover most everything I'm likely to get into. Having said that I'll likely have to try one of those "Do Everything" OPST Commando heads eventually

Let me add that I think this forum is GREAT! Lots of really smart guys that have obviously put a lot of thought and research into their equipment. it's comforting to know that there's a Deep Pool of information that's accessible. Thanks everyone!