Spawning Fish Unethical

[berryessie]

Here is an in your face reason to not fish for spawning fish. I do not post much but when I see something like this I feel like I have to do something. This fish was found dead with with another one in a major spawning area in our local water. This is a 21" fish foul hooken in the gill plate wrapped in the leader (based on the marks on the body) and fought to the death. This goes for every fishery out there, every fish out there. Now this fish cannot spawn, it cannot reproduce cannot regenerate the system. I am not sure what to do to help the situation other then bring awareness to fishing community.

This hurts my heart.

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[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Most fly fishers should understand this concept but the average, uneducated angler will do almost anything to catch a spawning salmon or steelhead.

[bigfly]

I'll say again, there should be a "fisher safety class" to educate them before they get a lic.
Ethics should be a required subject in schools too. Several semesters judging by the "average fisher".
Sometimes I think there are two kinds of fisher......Consumers and connoisseurs.
Stage one is to catch as many as possible, stage two, is appreciating the life in the life form..........
This society raises plenty of the first....If Donald Trump fished, I suspect he would use a grenade, and banish others from his water.....
(Not to get political.)
I'm not the fish police, but I do speak up when I see uninformed fishers...
Hope folks here help those that need it.
If we don't, who will.....?

Jim

[johnsquires]

It's extremely important to educate folks, but I think in the end we just have to come to terms with the fact that there are just some bad people out there in every sport, every aspect of life, and there's often not much we can do about it.
A few years back I watched from across a river as a hunting guide's clients were salmon fishing. Every salmon they caught was literally kicked back into the river after being landed, often kicked several times. It's hard to come up with the proper words to convey everything that is wrong with that scenario, and I'm sure even if you could, they wouldn't care. Not sure if it's their wiring, the way they were brought up, or maybe a combination of factors.

[lee s.]

EVERY fish is a potential spawner. They do nothing but eat or spawn. It is their purpose in life. It IS a shame to see what is, to us, a waste and, to us, an unnecessary struggle. However, Nature will keep her unpolluted niche full and balanced, even tho her hand is somewhat rough. It may be that some of our job now is to replace the grizzly that we have eliminated, tho we have done that way too efficiently with pollution. And another disturbing factor, to some, is that, like the cat, many of us enjoy playing with our food first.
just a thought.....
....lee s.

[Rossflyguy]

It's just lack of respect in general. Not many teach their kids the respect for all species and from there it just keeps going.

[JayDubP]

Where to draw the line? Many states ban fishing during spawn season for fresh water species but not for Anadromous species and limit to one hook (no treble hooks and no dropper set ups) to reduce foul hooking. Some states ban fishing in sections where spawning is known to occur. But even if it put in such regulations, CA DFG probably would not have the enforcement budget.

CA DFG does a good job in balancing our waters for everyone, especially those waters like the Lower Yuba. Barbless hooks, no bait and C & R are a big help and keep the water open.

REDDS- a huge area of disagreement in fishermen & guides: I think that fishing over redds should not be allowed (my choice, not based in fact just how I feel ) ... I feel that any disturbance of the redds or spawning fish should not be allowed (the fight of a hooked trout seems like it must disturb spawning fish) - again, no facts just how I feel.

I like the idea of one barbless hook only to help reduce foul hooking, but that also punishes people who fish to eat. When the object is to catch fish to eat and those fish will be killed anyway, then is there a need to educate about foul hooking or how to minimize stress or minimize damage to hooked fish.

So, how to protect spawning fish? Unfortunately I think only regulation and enforcement will do that.

[cdevine]

Where to draw the line? Many states ban fishing during spawn season for fresh water species but not for Anadromous species and limit to one hook (no treble hooks and no dropper set ups) to reduce foul hooking. Some states ban fishing in sections where spawning is known to occur. But even if it put in such regulations, CA DFG probably would not have the enforcement budget.

CA DFG does a good job in balancing our waters for everyone, especially those waters like the Lower Yuba. Barbless hooks, no bait and C & R are a big help and keep the water open.

REDDS- a huge area of disagreement in fishermen & guides: I think that fishing over redds should not be allowed (my choice, not based in fact just how I feel ) ... I feel that any disturbance of the redds or spawning fish should not be allowed (the fight of a hooked trout seems like it must disturb spawning fish) - again, no facts just how I feel.

I like the idea of one barbless hook only to help reduce foul hooking, but that also punishes people who fish to eat. When the object is to catch fish to eat and those fish will be killed anyway, then is there a need to educate about foul hooking or how to minimize stress or minimize damage to hooked fish.

So, how to protect spawning fish? Unfortunately I think only regulation and enforcement will do that.


I can't recall who said it but I think there are a few bad apples and that is true in life. Most of the people in this circle are way above board. I think most of the people I run into on the water are the same way. Sad that this happens but I don't believe its widespread. (I hope its not)

[mattv-mcfly]

The spawn is absolutely beautiful to watch. I don't see how anyone can rationalize the thought of trying to catch these fish while they are spawning. That fishery is super sensitive and definitely needs better regs.
I believe that closing the fishery during the winter spawn is the best middle ground between an all year fishery and protecting the fish.

[DLJeff]

So the whole stretch of any Anadromous species river would have to be closed to fishing. If not how would you outline what is a Redd and what isn't?

Add that many people can't recognize a redd even if they are conscientious. Wading through redds is actually just as harmful if not more so than catching the spawners. Hundreds, maybe thousands of eggs are crushed or damaged preventing hatching. And it isn't just fishermen. I've watched guides in Tierra del Fuego take clients specifically to an area chock full of redds to fish for huge brown trout. When I pointed out the redds and talked about the detrimental effects, the guide I was with sort of shrugged his shoulders. I said I wouldn't wade there and proceeded to walk upstream to a more riffled area without redds. Similar thing happened on the Green River below Flaming Gorge (not my guide but definitely a guide with clients). I think the only way to absolutely protect spawning areas, redds, and spawning fish is to close specific sections of rivers during the spawn. Sure there are non-spawners slurping eggs downstream of the redds but protecting the spawners, redds and eggs seems like a higher priority and simply telling people to be careful and even writing legislation to stay off the redds isn't going to be effective.

[Gregg]

I think there just isn't enough easily accessible and understandable information out there, and most fishermen are sort of on their own to figure out what to do and hopefully not to do. My first understanding of what a redd even was was about a decade back when I started fly fishing and hired a guide (through Kiene's) who rigged up pegged beads and showed me how to drift off the back of a redd on the Yuba to catch the rainbows hanging behind the salmon, so even in our super small and educated group there's still plenty of educators and guides showing people first hand how to exploit spawning fish. Fast forward a decade to last month and I was wedged between two guide boats who anchored over redds and were running bobbers through them for the better part of an hour. I'd imagine that a lot of flyfishers get their knowledge and rigging techniques from guides, and like I did, figure it's ok to keep doing. Not at all trying to bash guides here, I get that $ needs to be made, and hookups = $$$, but it's really the only educational introduction between the retail store and the person on the water, otherwise people are left to unknowingly walk across redds and accidentally swing through them to foul hook fish.

I'd love to see a shop like Kiene's offer a weekly or bi-weekly meetup focused on angler education and techniques where people can come learn and take away knowledge to be better fishermen and better stewards of the environment. I think it'd go a long way to teaching new and established participants new techniques, and also gets people in the shop to see new products and interact with staff and guides.

On a guide note, not everyone can shell out $500+ for a day on the water, but I've always been interested in group river tours. Maybe something like $175/person and a group of 10 or so where you learn about a fishery, hatches, spawning cycle and access points (I think Lincoln G does something like this already?), and it would be a good way to drive home conservation points as well as connect with the guide for possible future trips.

When it comes to the general public tho, unless you shut down rivers during spawning season there's no chance you're going to get the average joe with 3 treble hooks and a bunch of weights to stop raking spawning salmon across their backs. It happens all the time on the American, and DFG can barely keep up with enforcement if at all. Most everyone is afraid of calling people out we see doing it because people are terrified of confrontation these days, so I guess just report it when you see it is the best move and hope a ranger comes. Otherwise, in the circle we can have influence in (the Northern California fly fishing community), it'll take fly shops getting more involved socially with the customer base and spreading knowledge for a change to be made.

[JasonB]

So the whole stretch of any Anadromous species river would have to be closed to fishing. If not how would you outline what is a Redd and what isn't?

And there's where a little education goes a long ways, blended with a healthy dose of basic ethical intent and I think we'd be well on our way. To me, that's key to keeping more streams open, in some form or another. It is sad to see the careless disregard that so many have for fish, nature, other people... etc, etc, etc
JB

[Lincoln Gray]

Gregg -
Just to let you know, it is not me, but my brother Lance Gray that conducts the tours. The tours are a great resource and are conducted by instructors that have many years of fishing knowledge and ethics.
Thank you however for the shout out.

[STEELIES/26c3]

I fished the river today for steelies.

I came upon an area with two very active redds.

There were at least 4 and perhaps 5 fish on or around the redd.

One fish flashed and was as bright as a dime.

15 years ago, I would have rolled my spoon through it.

Today, I just watched from a steep gravel bank and thought to myself... these poor fish have such stacked odds against them (low water, warm water, silted gravel, not enough gravel, predators, poachers, liners, careless waders, and on and on...).

The chance of me hooking the one bright fish just wasn't worth the odds of foul hooking the others or even interfering with their potential to spawn naturally.

I know that the in-river production of kings is next to nothing and that without the hatchery we likely would have no run to speak of BUT with such shit-odds for the salmon (or steelies for that matter) it just made sense to leave 'em alone.

Hopefully some snagger won't pull them of their redds before Christmas... and for that it is good that at least the most productive gravel in the AR (from Ancil to Hazel) is closed until 1-1.

The warmer ocean temps and lower/warmer water on the AR this fall did help to stretch the run out longer and later than normal.

Many salmon went upriver quickly and 'under the radar' (especially in the last few weeks of November) and they still continue to come in with much cooler water temps and at least, semi-respectable amounts of rain and cloudy days...

That will help the in-river production of salmon. Now we just need a really wet January and February to give the fry and fingerlings a shot at reaching 'smolthood'.

If you do decide to tromp on the redds... you better look over your shoulder 'cuz Captain Bill Lowe will see you from his mighty ghost-ship and he will haunt you and make you lose your Skagit head the first time and your spey rod the next time he sees you~;)