shooting heads to mono

[rh crank]

When I get the chance to go steelhead or salmon fishing I still cast my single hand 9wt part of each day simply because it's fun. My rod is an old Scott fibreglass.
This has probably been discussed many times but what has proved to be the smoothest connection from amnesia to shead? Currently they're all loop to loop but they feel like a cue ball going out. I'm not the best caster and frequently have to strip that connection in to help pickup a deep head or begin the rollcast.
Can anyone recommend a video, gotta be a better way.
Also, are 30' shooting heads now sold with integrated running lines? I know it would require extra spools.

[winxp_man]

I like the nail knot with some Aqua seal on the knot to smooth it out as much as possible. And yes there are lines now with integrated sink tips. I think 24' is one of the longer ones. I used one back in 2012 shad season and worked great!

[Darian]

The point of loop to loop connections is in the ease of changing heads while fishing. Using a nail knot eliminates that feature. On the other hand, an integrated running line with a sink-tip (25' - 30') is a good alternative. Both Scientific Angler and RIO make integrated lines that have T-14, T-11 (30'??) heads that can be cut to the length that will cast well on a particular rod. But, unless you're willing to pick up one of the many integrated lines, none of this solves the connection problem you describe.

rh crank,.... You could try using a lighter pound test mono running line. That would result in using a finer diameter that would make knots smaller/thinner. Covering mono knots with either Aqua Seal or Pliobond would smooth out the wraps for a better transit thru the guides. Back when I was using mono running lines, I experienced the same problems you describe, my solution was to cover the knots. Then, I switched to non-mono running lines looped with Gudebrod braided mono to make connections. Then, after I became lazy ;) , I switched to integrated lines.

Here's a link to some info from Dan Blantons BB about using loop connectors:

http://www.danblanton.com/search/?s=Getting%20Looped

There're a number of threads at this link concerning mono to fly line connections. Just scroll down.

[Rick J]

I have not had a problem with the shooting head loops and just use a 4 turn clinch which is a very small knot that doesn't interfere - DO NOT use an improved clinch as this significantly weakens the connection

[rh crank]

Thanks all. Found a reference to the integrated lines which suggests that regardless of their sink rate they do not sink at the rate of a designated head and mono rig. Is this because that running line is a floater?
When picking up deep heads to get them started, do you often have to bring it in the top guide? Seems like my 28 footers are too long to get moving.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

RH Crank (I love your handle)


Ask Rick J said, and Al Perryman suggested to me a long time ago, just a 4 tune clinch knot on to the looped shooting head.

This is what we use for a single handed rod with looped shooting head to mono running line.

Mostly we only use this single handed rod with a looped ~30 foot shooting head selection and mono shooting line in the tide water (lakey water) near the ocean on our coastal river for salmon and steelhead.

**Upriver for Steelhead most are using integrated sinktips on single handed fly rods for line control.

.

[Terry Thomas]

Double or triple surgeons knot, depending on line size, coated with uv knot sense. Ed Ward has a good clip on his web site: OPST Fly Fishing.

[Darian]

rh crank,.... Lots of good info in this thread. I'm not a fan of using the clinch knot for connecting to a head even tho I've used it in a pinch.

Maybe some discussion of running lines will answer your questions:

"Found a reference to the integrated lines which suggests that regardless of their sink rate they do not sink at the rate of a designated head and mono rig. Is this because that running line is a floater?"

Integrated lines generally have a floating or intermediate running line component incorporated into a sinking head. Even tho these running lines are narrow in diameter, they are likely to be wider in diameter than anything other than an intermediate sink tip/head. They will sink slower than the head. This is even more evident when using mono as a running line. IMO, using an integrated line lets you cast/control the retrieve easier. Depending on the sink rate of the head used, it will try to sink at a relatively level(??) while the running line will tend to be pulled down from the end attached to the head, first. The affect of that will be to slow the sinking of the tail of the head, creating an angled attitude overall (maybe a more direct line to the fly??). On the other hand, most (not all) mono running lines are narrower in diameter than a shooting head and may be softer than non-mono running lines are. They're a bit trickier to cast/retrieve but sink readily to depth. Unless controlled, this may create some slack behind the head which will tend to sink at a level attitude. If not controlled, the slack may cause missed strikes before starting a retrieve. Also, the retrieve does not eliminate all of the slack, leaving the entire line in a slight bow. For example, I've been using a T-20 head with a 46 pound mono running line for deep water at La Ventana for several seasons, now. I don't like casting anything that heavy, so, I strip off almost the whole running line and lob the head out. Then I let it sink until the entire running line is taken out and start a retrieve. There're strong/deep currents in the Sea of Cortez and my set-up allows the line to get down deep while allowing currents to straighten the line (maybe). I've missed a few strikes as a result of slack but not often.

"When picking up deep heads to get them started, do you often have to bring it in the top guide? Seems like my 28 footers are too long to get moving."

In general, it's not a good idea to bring the connecting knot into the tip-top guide when preparing to cast. If you're experiencing problems using a 28 foot head, maybe it's too heavy for the rod(??). If wading when casting a shooting head set-up, it's not always easy to pick a deep head up. Most single hand casters use a roll cast to bring the line up to the surface, then make a back-cast to straighten out the head and make one fore cast, water loading the line and one more back cast, then a double haul forecast. If you're standing on a boat deck, this is much easier.

Hope this made sense....

[Baja Fly Fisher]

I still use shooting heads quite often. I like using LC 13 and backing it up with 30lb Clear Amnesia. I know most people love to hate Amnesia. I put a bimini twist on the mono then coat the knot with Loon knot sense. On the LC 13, I use 50lb Gudebrod braided material. To cast the line, I take about a rod length of LC 13 into the rod, snap roll cast a couple times, back cast once, shoot line on the back cast, stop and then make the forward cast using a double haul.
Not sure if I could do this for hours on end. Getting older has put some pain in my casting shoulder.

[Jeff C.]

When I used singled handed rods for shad, shooting heads were the way to go. I would get about a foot of the shooting head inside the guides to roll cast it out and would shoot out 3-4 ft of line as it layed out in front of me. Then it was a one back cast with or without a haul and then a forward cast with a haul. That way you don't spook the fish in front of you doing multiple casts with water loads (this kind of casting used to bug the hell out of Lee S.).

[rh crank]

Guys, good work. Jeff, your's is my casting exactly. This is all about casting in waders where the rollcast to water load requires that damn knot arrangement traveling in and out the tip. God I hate that thing clanking through...loop, surgeons, clinch, whatever.

[Rick J]

you can pretty easily shoot line on the back cast with any line system - much easier if you are double hauling - when you make the DH pull on the back cast you then just let the line feather through your fingers as your hand moves up towards the stripper - let line shoot- then pinch it tight and when you come forward - you can do the same thing. It is fun to try and shoot an entire line on your back cast - this tells you you have really dialed in your back cast

[Walter]

I'm trying to vision shooting the line on the back cast. Do you get the load when you stop the line. Are you stripping line off the reel as you lift off the water (1st haul) into your back cast and wait for the line to straghten out behind you then stop, and then start forward with a haul to load?

Use Amnesia. Tie a loop in it. I use the left kreh loop. Put a braided loop on flyline. Dont glue it really, it kinks eventually and then makes running line spin and adds twist. Best way to put a braided loop on is to wrap where it meets the shooting head in fly tying thread. Then half hitch, wrap, repeat, double half hitch. Make it smooth amd tapered when you do this. One drop of glue. I use a rubberized superglue. This is the old way. Tried and true.

To cast. Have one foot or less of amnesia out the rod tip. Pullout a bunch of line and manage it. If you have a stripping basket nobody will talk to you, lol. Roll cast. Before the roll cast even hits the water pull back into your backcast, one fore cast and let the neatly coiled amnesia in your fingers or mouth fly. No false casts. No back and forth wasting your time. That is the Bill Schaadt Cast as I was taught. No wasted motion. Fly dont catch fish in the air.