Red-Truck fly Rod's & reels

[Bluegrass Bill]

Hi folks,
I had a chance to fish with a guide provided “red-truck” fly rod and reel combination the other day on the American for stripers and really liked the feel of it. It was a 10 foot 7 weight with a 26 foot sink tip line and we were tossing and stripping in Clousers. Here is a link to a web site I found that carries the “red truck” rods and reels.

http://www.lelandfly.com/Red-Truck-Fly-Rods/

This web site contained some nice positive video’s reviewing and describing this and some other red-truck rods and combinations as well. This particular combination I fished with was touted as an outstanding nymphing outfit and I can imagine it would be. It worked well for me casting our clouser streamers as well. Until this opportunity to use this outfit I had never even heard of Red-Truck fly rods and figure they must be relatively new.

Does anybody out there own one of these rods an/or have anything to share with me about the rods? Right now I am about ready to put in an order for this outfit and add to my collection. :)

Thanks for any feedback.

Bill

[ATTACH=CONFIG]10995[/ATTACH

By the way the striper fishing was pretty slow, two of us hooked about a half dozen small fish floating from Grist Mill to Howe Avenue, half day, still nice to get out on the water :)

[Darian]

Bill,.... Here's a vote for making an order now. You have first hand experience with the Red Truck Rod and it sounds like you liked it. If you learned anything additional from the guide, you probably won't find out much more from people on a second hand basis. Buy it and enjoy.... :cool:

[Bluegrass Bill]

Darian, that is great advice and I believe I will add this one to my collection. It really fills a hole for me between my 6 and 8 weights and as good as it was for casting my sink tip shooting head I just know its length at 10 feet will make it a great nymphing rod as well. I suspect it is just a fairly new line of equipment and probably not many even on this board would be familiar with it.

Thanks again! :)

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

The only problem with custom rods or home made rods or imported "shop rods" is down the road, who will warranty them if they break?

If these shops or rod builders go out of business then nobody will stand behind these rods.

There are a few long term reputable custom rod builders like Gary Anderson of Anderson Custom
Rods and Jim Clarkston of Raptor Rods who will warranty their rods.

If the rods are on close out prices then that is different. It is worth the risk.....

If you are spending much money for a good fly rod I would stay with companies that have been around a while and hopefully will be there when you break it.


Many guides, especially new ones, will use what ever rods that companies will give them free.

ost of the top guides will be using Sage which are not free but at a good price to top guides.


We have had many people over the years come in with fly rods that not only don't have anyone to warranty them, you can't even get parts to fix them. Then they are not too happy......



.

[Carpe Vino Cass]

Bill, while the warranty issue is definitely something to consider, I own a couple Red Truck rods (a spey and a switch) and few of their reels, and I love the feel of them too. They have served me well over quite a few hours on the river with no problems. Since they are modestly priced (as far as fly rods go), my thinking was to just buy what I liked using and what felt good. What happens 10 years from now is a worry for another day.

Steve

[Darian]

Amen!!! Hey Bill, you found a good rod that you like, congrats!! Given the price point of Redtruck rods, the warranty is a secondary consideration unless you plan on breaking or damaging the rod anytime soon. As to finding parts to build/rebuild a rod, DIY, quality reel seats, grips and guides are still available for those who look for them and if you ever want/need to rebuild that rod thru another person, there're a couple of people in this area who do that line of work. :cool:

[njbeast]

Bill,
Have not fished the Red Truck line from Leland but have dealt with some of their staff. They were very knowledgeable and nice guys to boot. Looked at their on-line store and the $299 price seemed to be a winner.

[cyama]

I think Bill Kiene is right. Stick with the well known brands. You can buy a TFO pro 2 for $200. You could then spend a few more bucks on a nice reel with a warranty like a Galvan T6 or T8. Leland's is ok, but may not be around when you break that rod or reel. Toby the TFO rep will replace that rod if it breaks. TFO can't repair, so most likely you will receive a brand new rod with a chance to upgrade… Stick with name brands!!!

[Tony Buzolich]

I think this whole post is a little insulting to Bill and the Kiene's Shop. You guys are talking up the shops competition and slapping it right in Bill's face.

Have some respect, Tony

[Rockman]

I agree with Tony, put it on Lelands blog if they have one.
The warranty issue is something that has bothered me for some time. I have been buying Sage products since the late 80's. I have watched the price of using the warranty go up steadily for some time. I had to pay $75. on my last Sage warranty issue. I feel this is a bit excessive considering when I purchased the rods, they had a lifetime warranty. I now look at other brands and the fine print of the warranty much more closely. I think their are many great rods that have better warrantys that don't cost as much to fix. Anybody else feel that $75. to fix a "lifetime" rod is a bit much? I remember when I just shipped a rod to them, they shipped it back and that was it. I am now using other brands such as Orvis, Winston, and Reddington/Sage, and others. I am no longer loyal to the brand, but loyal to Kienes.

[Walter]

The only problem with custom rods or home made rods or imported "shop rods" is down the road, who will warranty them if they break?

If these shops or rod builders go out of business then nobody will stand behind these rods.

There are a few long term reputable custom rod builders like Gary Anderson of Anderson Custom
Rods and Jim Clarkston of Raptor Rods who will warranty their rods.

If the rods are on close out prices then that is different. It is worth the risk.....

If you are spending much money for a good fly rod I would stay with companies that have been around a while and hopefully will be there when you break it.


Many guides, especially new ones, will use what ever rods that companies will give them free.

ost of the top guides will be using Sage which are not free but at a good price to top guides.


We have had many people over the years come in with fly rods that not only don't have anyone to warranty them, you can't even get parts to fix them. Then they are not too happy......



.

Bill Kiene I respectfully disagree. The bigger companies like Sage, Loomis, etcerera are so expensive because they originally billed in the cost of a replacement into the original purchace price because the warranty was originally free back in the day. And now that its not did they lower the purchase price? No. The price of the warranty repair is going up and the only way the cost of the rod is going down is because those companies started allowing cabelas and such to sell their products, which screwed fly shops.

I will say that other than the old Sage XP, the only rod I like better for steelhead is the Red Truck 1953 8 Weight. Takes me a few years to beat the hell out of the line guides. I prefer the stiffness in the lower part of the blank but the medium action in the tip. Fast Action rods are for wind, bobber or people who cant cast. I fish shooting heads, the 1953 launches them, and its wonderful to fight fish. I've caught hundreds of steelhead on the Red Truck 1953. Its a great rod. And I havent been into Lelands for over a year and over a year before that. Im not a homer commentator.

Oh yeah, and I think you can buy three Red Trucks for one Sage Loomis Loop Beulah, etc...

Hows that for warranty repair?

[Carpe Vino Cass]

No disrespect was intended towards Bill Kiene or anyone at the Kiene shop just because we commented on a non-traditional brand, but either this forum is a free exchange of ideas and information or it’s just another censored advertisement for a single corporate interest, and I'd like to think that’s not the case. Just my $.02

[Darian]

the title of this Forum. That title doesn't imply that products to be reviewed are limited to brands that Kiene's American Fly Shop sell and past threads have covered products not, generally, held in inventory there. So, no need to take this discussion to another BB or blog.

Bluegrass Bill asked for information about anyones experience with a RedTruck rod, a rod that he had used himself on a guided trip and liked it. Meaning no disrespect to Bill Kiene, IMO, his post wasn't responsive to BB's question; more a caution about avoiding imagined issues with low end products by upgrading to high end products. No problem with that but, also, no problem with countering either (no insult intended....).

[Walter]

Yes, no direspect at all. I just think if you run a retail shop, which Bill no longer does, a 30% markup on a Sage over a cheaper rod equals more revenue to the Retail Shop. Rents are high. It makes sense to promote the more expensive product, if the manufacturer doesnt have you under contract to sell nothing else but their product(or bully you into it) and allow pittance for a margin. Now that the big companies allow their products to be sold by big box stores and have moved production out of country they dont deserve the higher margins they keep for themselves and dont share with the Fly Shops. Fly Shops go out of business when they cant make anything on the items they are able to sell. One reason Ive always liked Bills Shop was the diversity of equipment, tackle and fly tying materials. Many Shops couldnt continue that practice, lost foot traffic and couldnt pay their rent. That and fly fisherman, long time fly fishermen, are cheap as hell, in my experience. Or stubborn and dont buy new gear.

[aaron]

Yes, no direspect at all. I just think if you run a retail shop, which Bill no longer does, a 30% markup on a Sage over a cheaper rod equals more revenue to the Retail Shop. Rents are high. It makes sense to promote the more expensive product, if the manufacturer doesnt have you under contract to sell nothing else but their product(or bully you into it) and allow pittance for a margin. Now that the big companies allow their products to be sold by big box stores and have moved production out of country they dont deserve the higher margins they keep for themselves and dont share with the Fly Shops. Fly Shops go out of business when they cant make anything on the items they are able to sell. One reason Ive always liked Bills Shop was the diversity of equipment, tackle and fly tying materials. Many Shops couldnt continue that practice, lost foot traffic and couldnt pay their rent. That and fly fisherman, long time fly fishermen, are cheap as hell, in my experience. Or stubborn and dont buy new gear.

There's not a single brand in the industry contractually bullying their dealers thankfully. And your operating margins are a fair bit off.

[Dan LeCount]

I just make my own at this point.

[Bluegrass Bill]

Hi folks,

First thanks to all for your comments and recommendations, all very good points to consider. It was never my intention in any way for this topic to insult Bill or any of Kiene’s Fly shop staff or products.

I have been a loyal customer of Both Kiene’s and American Fly Fishing (before the merger) for over 30 years buying more than 90% of my fly fishing equipment (rods, reels lines, waders, fly tying etc.) from one of these stores. I have been and am friends with most of the staff at Kiene’s.

With the merger I will continue to support Kiene’s just as I always have. That does not mean I will never consider a certain item elsewhere that really catches my eye.

Thanks again for your comments and suggestions, my apologies if anything I said was taken the wrong way or as it appears may have led to something taken in an unintended way. As with any diverse group we all have opinions and are free to agree or disagree. :)

I hope to see some of you at Kiene’s November 19th when the next opportunity for the Western Lights Trio to perform comes about with a special Thursday night Simms event. And here is a little tune to lighten the mood. Tight lines to all! :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XmEzTlaZMA
Northern California Fly Fishing Blues!

Bluegrass Bill, long time Kiene and American Fly fishing company supporter.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Imported fly rods are a great deal and good value.

If you check my post for the last 10 plus years you will see me recommending them for most.

Actually, I would recommend you buy an imported fly rod from top companies like Orvis, TFO or Redington so in the future when you break the tip it can be repaired under warranty.



If you can afford a Sage fly rod then I highly recommend that you buy one or several.


If you think that these imported rods are better than a Sage then you know very little about this subject.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Imported fly rods are a great deal and good value.

If you check my post for the last 10 plus years you will see me recommending them for most.

If you buy an imported fly rod I would get one from a top companies like Orvis, Echo, TFO or Redington so in the future when you break the tip it can be replaced under warranty.

__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________

If you can afford a Sage fly rod then I highly recommend that you buy one or several.


If you think that these imported rods are better than a Sage then you know very little about this subject.

__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________

[Walter]

You dont have to have a contract to be bullied or threatened with having the line pulled from you. And it has and does happen. Ahem, Simms anyone?

And Im saying the retail shop should be allowed a 30% margin, and are not because the manufacturers are taking everything they can. Standard retail markups should be 30% over cost from manufacturer or distributor. Fly shops are getting high-balled, if you will. Fly shops started trying to shake it up a bit just in time for companies like Sage to let Cabelas have at their line, undercutting the fly shop business. If you want to support your local fly shop you would not buy from Cabelas.

In my opinion, Leland was tired of the game and tried to do their own thing, hence Red Truck Rods. And if I can catch hundreds of steelhead on the rod and enjoy my time with it who cares if its not a fancy expensive rod?

You can you an AR-15 with a crazy scope to shoot a deer ten miles away(joking) and you can use a lever action Iron sighted rifle and sneak up on the deer. It doesnt matter what you have its how you use it. Of course if your $18 dollar ebay rod breaks when you cast it from an actual flaw, that sucks. But one of the best flyfisherman Ive ever seen with my own eyes uses $18 ebay specials. And he catches more fish than the next 50 guys combined. He is proud of the rods and shows them off.

[aaron]

You dont have to have a contract to be bullied or threatened with having the line pulled from you. And it has and does happen. Ahem, Simms anyone?

And Im saying the retail shop should be allowed a 30% margin, and are not because the manufacturers are taking everything they can. Standard retail markups should be 30% over cost from manufacturer or distributor. Fly shops are getting high-balled, if you will. Fly shops started trying to shake it up a bit just in time for companies like Sage to let Cabelas have at their line, undercutting the fly shop business. If you want to support your local fly shop you would not buy from Cabelas.



If a retailer is only making 30 points on a Sage rod or Simms waders then they're doin' it wrong.
Never seen Simms bully anyone save for closing an especially vocal account attacking them for selling direct. In fact quite the opposite, incentivizing dealers to carry more of their product and in turn offering them a better profit.

[Walter]

Its called "pay to play," and you took the bait. Between a margin over 30% from the retailer(thanks for confirmation) and the excessive dealer cost(with some other guys repair cost billed into the purchase price of my new rod) its difficult to afford a $700 rod except for the affluent or the addicted. Why not buy three $200 rods that can accomplish basically the same thing? Thats what Im saying. It's also been pushed by manufactures onto independent contractor sales representives that they cannot carry such and such brand if they want to Rep such and such brand. I dont need to name names or slander, whatnot. I'm trying to speak generalized.

Selling direct is another method for the manufacturer to assume what would traditionally be the distributor or retailers profit. And if selling direct undercuts the normal retail price, then it overtly hurts retailers/distributors.

Incentivizing is double speak for bullying, IMO. "We will give you a better cost on our products if you fill your shelves with our items." That leaves no room for other manufactures products.....its corporate bullying. If the manufacturer can afford to give the retailer a lower cost then they should do it. Of course, if it was my company I wouldnt feel that way. But what Im saying is the diversity in fly shops has diminished from this behavior. And its why Ive been inpressed with Kienes over the year as I previously mentioned. But its also why Ive respected how Lelands has chosen to approach the situation as well. And my Red Truck 1953 puts fish up.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Imported fly rods have a 60% to 80% margin for the shops who get them directly from China, Taiwan and Korea.

You have to buy quit a few rods of each size and prepay them to do this.

Most small fly shops can not afford this....

I still think imported rods are a good value for most but be sure that you buy them from a company that you think will be around next season.

.

[Walter]

Imported fly rods have a 60% to 80% margin for the shops who get them directly from China, Taiwan and Korea.

You have to buy quit a few rods of each size and prepay them to do this.

Most small fly shops can not afford this....

I still think imported rods are a good value for most but be sure that you buy them from a company that you think will be around next season.

.


That percentage is on a smaller manufacturer cost I would think, being out of USA. Putting 60% on a $100 cost from Korea doesnt compare to putting 40% or more on a $500 cost from USA manufacturer(even when manufactured out of USA still for $100!). I'm not advocating buying from overseas, just doing the math. Who is really gouging?

Bill, how can these guys on ebay afford to make a fairly nice complete rod(from and overseas blank) and sell the complete rod for $18?

It's interesting. I could buy 38 of these complete rods for the price of one Sage, Loomis, Etc... At my age I could break one a year for the rest of my fishing career.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Funny how some people just would never buy a top of the line fly rod? Maybe they don't think they deserve one or they are not convinced that these top of the line rods are worth it. It can't totally be economic?

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________

Shops with their own branded imported fly fishing products like The Fly Shop and Lelands are really doing well because it is high volume and high profit. Do you understand that? Not rocket science.

They probably sell one high end US made rod for every 20 or 30 imported fly rods.

I think it is great because that is what the big companies like Bass Pro and Cabelas are doing.

At Kiene's American Fly Fishing Company we have nice imported fly rods from TFO, Orvis, and Echo.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______


I have both....Sage, Orvis and then Redington, Echo and TFO.

I think they are all great.

__________________________________________________ ____________________________

We all cast a little different and so if you say a rod is the best then your buddy might cast it and say he doesn't like it at all.

This is a fact so think about that before you make a statement....

__________________________________________________ ______________________________

Really top fly casters, like our staff, with take out every 9' #5 line 4 piece fly rod in the price range they are targeting and cast them.

Then they will decide which one they want to buy.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________

Some people like slower rods and some like faster.....

__________________________________________________ ______________________________________

Story #23b

A recently retired vascular surgeon came into our shop by recommendation of some of his friends.

He said he was new to fly fishing and needed a 9' #5 line 4 piece outfit for trout fishing.

One of our staff sold him a nice started outfit for around $200.

Later when he showed up with that outfit to practice with his friends who he was going to New Zealand with and they had a fit.

Needless to say, I got my ass chewed out.

His friends brought him back in to the shop and he kept the starter outfit for a back up on that big trip and bought a new top of the line outfit that was around $1,000.00

So after that I told my staff that not everyone needs a low end imported starter outfit for their first outfit.....

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Story # 112c

A young retired stock broker had just moved to Sacramento.

He came into my shop because a friend recommend he see me.

He told me he went to Montana with friends and had a great first trip for trout.

He said he needed his own tackle and wanted to get a good trout outfit, good waders, boots and a vest.

He said he didn't need any flies because he would get them for the trip at a local fly shop.

He told me he wanted me to pick out what I thought was the best of everything....

It took us about an hour to get everything together, try on waders and boots, find a good vest.

I think he spent around $2,000....

After we were done he said it was nice to find a new hobby that was not very expensive.

That shocked me and stopped me in my tracks.

I said what did he mean?

He said I just bought almost everything I need for trout stream fishing and it was only around $2000.

Well, that 's great...I said.

He said yes, I spend that much a month shooting sporting clays.

And I am headed to the bay area tomorrow to pick up another shot gun that is $3,000.

And I have dozen of guns.

Oh, I understand. thanks and enjoy our inexpensive sport of fly fishing.

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Hunting is way more expensive than fly fishing.

A friend of mine who hunts all over says his friend's wife put her husband on a budget for hunting one year....she said he had to limit his hunting that year to $50,000.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________________________

.

[goby]

Funny how some people just would never buy a top of the line fly rod? Maybe they don't think they deserve one or they are not convinced that these top of the line rods are worth it. It can't totally be economic?



I will never throw an Asian rod. Life is too short. Fly fishing is my hobby and my passion. My $800 Helios2 is worth every penny I paid for it. My $500 Orvis T3 (which was top of the line when I bought it) has served me well for 10+ years. I'm really not interested in saving money on my rod, reel, or line. I'm interested in having an amazing fly fishing experience every time I go out. Thus, I throw Orvis Rods and Abel, Orvis, Loop reels. If I can get a deal on those top brands, I will.

And I think Bill knows a bit more about the Fly Fishing industry than anyone else here.

[Rossflyguy]

I will never throw an Asian rod. Life is too short. Fly fishing is my hobby and my passion. My $800 Helios2 is worth every penny I paid for it. My $500 Orvis T3 (which was top of the line when I bought it) has served me well for 10+ years. I'm really not interested in saving money on my rod, reel, or line. I'm interested in having an amazing fly fishing experience every time I go out. Thus, I throw Orvis Rods and Abel, Orvis, Loop reels. If I can get a deal on those top brands, I will.

And I think Bill knows a bit more about the Fly Fishing industry than anyone else here.


Aren't Orvis and Loop imported?

[Rossflyguy]

Amen!!! Hey Bill, you found a good rod that you like, congrats!! Given the price point of Redtruck rods, the warranty is a secondary consideration unless you plan on breaking or damaging the rod anytime soon. As to finding parts to build/rebuild a rod, DIY, quality reel seats, grips and guides are still available for those who look for them and if you ever want/need to rebuild that rod thru another person, there're a couple of people in this area who do that line of work. :cool:


Warranty is never secondary to price. $300 is still a lot of money to spend on one rod that you're pulling through brush and hiking around rocks through rivers. I'd rather spend the money and buy a rod once than keep upgrading. I buy sage rods because it's made in the US and they repair a broken rod or replace it with an equal rod if it's not available to repair. Plus, you can buy a used safe rod from these fly shops now for the same price as an imported rod and the warranty still applies as long as they weren't registered.

[goby]

Aren't Orvis and Loop imported?

My Orvis rods are made in the US, the Orvis reel made in England, and my Loop is made in Sweden. I didn't say I was anti-import, I said I wouldn't throw Asian rods (or use Asian reels). I have one Asian reel, an Okuma, that was basically free with a St. Croix switch rod I purchased. It sells for about $180, and I absolutely hate it.

[rubio505]

Bill,
I am sorry if this post has offended anyone, whenever possible please visit us out here in Sonoma, I would be more than happy to personally show you guys what we have been up to. We don't plan on taking anyone's job. Our rods are not made in the U.S.A. I will give you guys that but they are made in the same facility where Hardy and Loop manufacture their gear. As for our warranty we like to stay simple, when we sell an outfit we try to include a spare tip, because we know the tip is typically the first to break due to human nature (i.e. tailgate/door closed on rod). If not you can simply replace any tip for any rod for less than 50 bucks. I am truly sorry to offend you Bill and everyone else, we at Leland love getting people taking but not like this.
Thank You and Tight Lines!