American Fly Fishing and Kienes to Combine

[Cmcculloch]

Here is text of an email I received today ftom American Fly Fishing.

On April 1st American Fly Fishing will be relocated to Kiene's current location at 2752 Marconi Ave, Sacramento. The new fly shop will be "Kiene's American Fly Fishing Co." All of the staff of American Fly Fishing Co. will join Kiene's staff. Kiene's staff will remain in place. I, Gary Eblen, will be the full-time managing partner.

We hope you like what we have planned - beautiful full service retail store, first class ecommerce website, full-time worldwide travel services, robust school program and complete Northern California guide services.We look forward to helping you with your fly fishing needs.

Gary, Stephanie & Staff

[David Lee]

Is this a joke ?

D.~

[troutless]

If so, an elaborate one, I got the same email.

Also I double-checked and I believe it is still March.

[TigerLilly]

It would be interesting to get a glimpse of the backstory about this guy who is buying up all of these smaller fly shops throughout the west. Rumors abound, none of them very flattering or assuring.

[Mark Kranhold]

Wow, rumor has it! It is April 1st you know:rolleyes:

[hwchubb]

Yeah, I'm focused on that April 1 date as well.

[Mark Kranhold]

Kiene empire! Soon to be Kiene's American Flyfishing Specialties Company. Lol

[Cmcculloch]

The rest of the email was about the American Fly Fishing "moving sale". This makes it seem real.

[Mark Kranhold]

I'm sure it is, they have downsized a lot and Steve has been buying up lots of shops.

[TigerLilly]

Apparently you don't understand that Kiene's hasn't been "Kiene's" for quite some time. From what I heard the guy who bought Kiene's (and so it seems American) also bought Marriots in Los Angeles, a shop in Colorado, and owns another in Missoula. You might be the April Fool. But then again, I could be wrong.

[TaylerW]

I love having a good fly shop in my area. I hope this decision allows business to build.

[jerry from sac]

If I hadn't received an email from Kiene's stating this was the case I would have a hard time believing this to be true, but maybe not.

[bigfly]

I called Grizzly Hackle, and it is true......and I'm sad.....
From what I know of American......that one trip was enough.....how could this be?
What do you get when you roll a great shop, and a bad shop in together?
We'll see....

[David Lee]

I called Grizzly Hackle, and it is true......and I'm sad.....
From what I know of American......that one trip was enough.....how could this be?
What do you get when you roll a great shop, and a bad shop in together?
We'll see....

My 4 visits there years ago were overwhelmingly negative - hard-sell staff and obnoxious management . I don't spend a lot of time in any fly shop anymore , but I know the staff I will avoid if I do need to go and get something .

A sad decision , and the end of an era !!

D.~

[hwchubb]

Like Paul on Good Friday, like James Imhoff and global warming, I'll continue to deny it until it's too late. American supported the American River very well, but the shop and staff had some real integrity issues. Nothing positive if this isn't an April Fools prank, IMHO.

[cdevine]

My 4 visits there years ago were overwhelmingly negative - hard-sell staff and obnoxious management . I don't spend a lot of time in any fly shop anymore , but I know the staff I will avoid if I do need to go and get something .

A sad decision , and the end of an era !!

D.~

Its true. I got the same note on facebook. They are having 20% off everything as a moving sale so I'm on my way over. Might as well try and get some deals. Bummer. I really like Gary.

[Darian]

I suppose change is inevitable. The "new broom sweeps clean". I like Gary but I always thought he wanted a haberdashery/travel agency with a fly shop on the side. Lots of stylish clothing items. High end inventory. tho, his shop rarely had any of the materials I wanted/used. Never felt any high pressure from the sales people. There're a couple of the guide/sales staff at American that I found to be less than credible but nothing major. It'll be interesting to see how the current Kiene's staff will match up with American's....

Wonder how all of this will impact the continuation of this Bulletin Board????

[jerry from sac]

No one likes change but change is inevitable and I'm sure there will be some staff shakeout, some growing pains, but give Gary a chance. He's an ok guy.
We are lucky to have a fly shop of this size in town, lots of bigger cities don't have one.

[cdevine]

No one likes change but change is inevitable and I'm sure there will be some staff shakeout, some growing pains, but give Gary a chance. He's an ok guy.
We are lucky to have a fly shop of this size in town, lots of bigger cities don't have one.

I was over at American Fly today. Guys seemed pretty upbeat actually. I would bet some good will come out of this for Kienes store with Gary's marketing touch. Good deals over there. I picked up a nice Fishpond chest pack highly discounted. I liked the cozy feeling of the store. I will miss that.

[johnsquires]

Like Paul on Good Friday, like James Imhoff and global warming, I'll continue to deny it until it's too late. American supported the American River very well, but the shop and staff had some real integrity issues. Nothing positive if this isn't an April Fools prank, IMHO.

I'm assuming you mean Inhove??
What a beauty! So they put him in charge of what committee? Pathetic. And not good news for the folks who are fighting the proposed Pebble Mine.

[TigerLilly]

The big picture is not about personalities and who loves whom. It is about a very large, deep pockets holding company, Grizzly Hackle LLC, acquiring Kiene's then buying out their competition. Knocking off American is not only a smart move in terms of removing B&M competition, but picks up their very well developed web presence that Kiene's has never been able to get off the ground. Feeble web presence is also the Achilles heel of FF Specialties and the California Fly Shop. GH has the firepower to undermine them both. Put your head in the sand and call this an April Fool's joke (Mark Kranhold), but the reality is that small, independent fly shops in California are in the bulls eye. With out of state corporate dollars driving Kiene's and Bass Pro moving into Rocklin, it will be a pivotal year for Fly Fishing Specialties. Personally, I hope FFS can hold their own.

[boomer4]

Truly a sad day when I heard Kiene's is closing on April 1st! For me that is what it amounts to. Merging was truly a bad business decision. Mergers are intended to improve business - to improve branding; not weaken it. Clearly, GH doesn't know the "cultural" fly fishing market or they would have waited out AFF - if you've noticed lately, they are no larger than a walk-in closet.

I supported Kiene's even after Bill sold it and when it was renamed FishWest- out of respect for Bill. Personally, I spent more money there when the Kiene named returned. The gear I can get anywhere, but I liked the guys. I liked going to the fly shop to BS with the guys. For me, Kiene's is closing and have two weeks to visit the store before it closes.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Looks like Gary is moving his American business into our big new Kiene's 7,000 sq ft store and take over managing too.

Kiene's has a really good walk in business and Gary has a cutting edge online store.......good.

We will blend our travel businesses too.

We will be blending our staffs.

We think it will be good for everyone, merging two old Sacramento fly shops for a common good for all.

If some don't think it is a good idea, well that is their opinion.

We think it is going to be a good move for all.

.

[johnsquires]

Well, time will be the judge.

I only wish we had that problem in the East Bay.

[Bob G]

Hey Billy -

I have been with you since 1975 when you started the Sacramento Fly Hutch Shop, and with Kienes leading the new Shop's name, I am still with you. Loyalty is a so very important in this world, and "I PLAN ON LEAVING THE DANCE WITH THE DATE I CAME WITH"...and for me the dance isn't over yet.

Take care of your selves in Florida, and I will see you and Marilyn at the Shop's EXPO.

Your Friend,

Bob

[Dave E.]

Remembering back to when Bill had us all going about his retirement, long before he did retire and the time that Scott ( I think it was Scott ) bamboozled most of us with his announcement that we was buying Kiene’s and the changes he was going to be making. From out here in the sticks, I’m not sure if this is an elaborate hoax with many players or if it’s real. Only one way to tell I guess. Road Trip to Kiene’s for the April Shindig.

In the interim, I wish you all luck in whatever the hell is going on.
Dave

[Clark]

Man. The last couple of years of Sacramento fly shop drama has read like a soap opera script. Kinda fun to watch actually.

I've frequented all three Sacramento area shops over the years and have nothing negative to say about any of them. All cool shops with unique ups and downs. I'm just glad we have quality places where fish obsessed folks like myself can pop in, shoot the shit and buy some egg yarn.

Good luck to all involved and long live Kiene's Special American Grizzly!

P.S. - Just be sure to keep a healthy stock of McFly Foam in Oregon Cheese color or we'll have problems...

Clark

[Mr.Matt]

As long as folks like Andy work at Kienes I'll give em my business. I personally don't care who owns the "corporation"....
They employ great folks like Andy and the other guys in there who give excellent customer service.

I do hope that dog that's in AFF shows up at Kienes.. The black friendly dog, don't remember the name.

Best of luck to all during this conversion. I'll see you all in April.

Matt

[cyama]

"I only wish we had that problem in the East Bay." To John Squires you should check out Fish First in Albany!! It is probably the best shop left in the Bay Area. Great customer service and knowledge of local waters. Leo is a great guy. They also have a shop in Chico. As for Kienes merging with American I am not so sure it is a good idea…. For Sac shops Fly Fishing Specialties has a better vibe...

[johnsquires]

I've been to Fish First and had a good experience and would go back anytime I'm in the area. Great area, friendly and knowledgeable service, cheap parking.

I should have been more specific and said "Concord, Walnut Creek," instead of "East Bay."

For a place that doesn't have a "river running through it," Concord and Walnut Creek has a crazy amount of fly fishers living in it - and what do they have as far as a well-stocked fly shop?

Maybe the next move for the group that bought out Kiene's, American, etc., should be to open up a fly shop in Black Hawk Plaza. The sports up there wouldn't even blink at a $900 tag on a fly rod, which I guess, besides travel, is where you make the money in the fly shop business these days.

[TigerLilly]

I too, am mystified why a decent fly shop doesn't exist in the East Bay. Andy Puyans almost invented the genera in Walnut Creek and Pete Wooly made a killing in Lafayette. Maybe now the rent is too high and the clientele are too internet savvy for a brick and mortar to survive?

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

The cost of doing business in California is very high.

I know the Bay Area is even higher.

[johnsquires]

The cost of doing business in California is very high.

I know the Bay Area is even higher.

Unless you happen to be one of those companies (tech comes to mind) that cities want in their area and they give them all sorts of concessions to locate there. Another example of an uneven playing field.

[KJE]

Mike Powers at American was an absolutely fantastic guy, though I don't think he's worked there for a while. Mike got me into Winstons after we spent an hour, easy, fooling around with eight or so rods on the lawn out back. No pressure, no suggestion of any specific rod, but after finally deciding I loved the Winston he said "So do I. I hoped you'd like it, too, but wanted you to figure it out yourself."

We fished much of the same water, spent a lot of time talking about our mutual love of prams, and when I moved to the East Coast I gave him a list of some secret lakes and streams to keep an eye on for me. Never wet a line or had a beer with him, and we missed each other on the Fall a couple times, but I sure wish I had.

Beyond that, gosh, I couldn't count the number of times Al told me I was wasting my time fishing for trout and need to switch entirely to Delta stripers, and oh, while I'm at it, buy whatever the spiffiest rod Sage just came out with was.

[cmcdhuibh]

I too, am mystified why a decent fly shop doesn't exist in the East Bay. Andy Puyans almost invented the genera in Walnut Creek and Pete Wooly made a killing in Lafayette. Maybe now the rent is too high and the clientele are too internet savvy for a brick and mortar to survive?

Isn't leland fly shop still in SF? Bush st and Grant I think It's not east bay but close. All though with traffic you can get to Sacramento and back faster. LOL

[TaylerW]

No Leland closed sf years ago, moved to sonoma

[johnsquires]

Isn't leland fly shop still in SF? Bush st and Grant I think It's not east bay but close. All though with traffic you can get to Sacramento and back faster. LOL

Lost Coast is the only fly shop I know of in SF. But, as you said, traffic is an issue. And then there's the $6 for toll and $35 to park (financial district). Much faster to get to the Albany fly shop for us in the East Bay.

I've never understood why REI doesn't have a fly fishing department in their stores.

[cdevine]

Lost Coast is the only fly shop I know of in SF. But, as you said, traffic is an issue. And then there's the $6 for toll and $35 to park (financial district). Much faster to get to the Albany fly shop for us in the East Bay.

I've never understood why REI doesn't have a fly fishing department in their stores.

Lost Coast Outfitters is a cool little place. The owner (george revel) is a great guy. A real pro in every sense. i make it a habit to pay him a visit when i'm in the city.

Whoever said Al tried to transition them too stripers that was classic. And then he throws out we caught like 87 fish in an afternoon. AL the math doesn't work. Sorry maybe with a net.

[Mike Stroud]

"Annie" is her name. She's Gary Eblen's dog and indeed a nice shop dog to have around. Being that Gary will now be a managing party, I suspect we will see Annie around. Thanks Matt.

[Mike Stroud]

Mike P. has been at AFFC for, I believe, 13 of the 25 or so years they have been in business. Very knowledgeable & helpful.

[Mike Stroud]

Don't believe the rumors, until you sit down and chat with Steve Jensen. Salt of the Earth, very passionate about our industry.

[Mike Stroud]

No shop in Colorado. Just Missoula, Sacramento & Fullerton. They also broke the ties with FishWest, just as quickly as they moved in.

[E.Drucker]

This is my first time posting on the Kiene Thread..Ive been lurking for years and never had much worthwhile to contribute. I would have to say that this merge is really disappointing to me.

When I first moved up to Northern California from San Diego in 1998, I became a customer at American Fly Fishing Co. while I was attending UC Davis. Even as a young customer, the pressure to buy the next best rod, the newest reel, etc etc was always very high (even though I was a college student with little money).

Ive also noticed some very unethical fishing and pictures on their facebook posts over the years. A golden trout covered in dirt and held up for a picture...first off why would you do that to an endangered fish, and secondly why would you take a picture of it, and finally why in god's name would you post said picture on facebook??????

I met Maury Hatch a few years back and he turned me onto Kiene's. I would have to say that EVERYONE on staff at Kienes have been incredibly helpful, friendly, and honest. I have never once felt pressure to buy a more expensive piece of equipment than I needed, and thus I ended up spending a lot more money there than I would have otherwise.

April 1st (merger -D day) is most certainly a sad day for the sacramento fly fishing community as we all lose a great shop with a fantastic culture.

I for one am looking forward to knowing the staff at Fly Fishing Specialties better.

[Andrew Guibord]

I have worked at Kiene's Fly Shop for over 24 years. It has been a privilege to have served this fly fishing community for so many years. I look forward to many more. April first will see the merging of two stores that use to be rivals. Life is full of surprises. I want all of you to know that myself and the other Kiene employees that you have come to trust over the years will continue to serve you along with the merging members of American Fly Fishing Company. Together we hope that you will give us a chance to continue providing a caring and helpful service into the ever changing future. Thank you for your time and support. Tight Lines, Andy Guibord.

[johnsquires]

All my experiences over the years at Kiene's and American FF have been positive. Sacramento fly fishers are fortunate.

Actually, all my experiences at The Fly Shop have been positive, also.

And my favorite for Alaska patterns and gear is Alaska Fly Fishing Goods. I love their website.

Only negative experiences have been at our local shop (actually, it's kind of a nonexperience since there is no engaging in conversation and rarely do I find what I went in for) and at an Orvis shop near Boston (even though I was purchasing a fly box, they wouldn't let me use their restroom). Oh, and a fly shop in Mizzoula who, very obviously, sold us some flies that they just wanted to get out of their inventory.

Looking forward to April 18. I'm driving over from Concord to check out what I'm sure will be a great shop.

[johnb]

American FF is the closest shop to my doorstep. I've bought plenty of gear from them and have had positive experiences, do they want to sell me a 2000$ setup? Sure, but I never got the hard sell from them. I always felt like I got a good deal from them, and I prefer not to go the online route and keep my dollars in Sacramento. I migrated to Kienes because of their spey expertise, but it had nothing to do with the people working at American Fly. I have mixed feelings about the merger, multiple shops keeps the competition alive and lets shops specialize in what they are good at. A one stop fly fishing Walmart in Sacramento is not something I look forward to. I wish the best to FFS and the new Kienes.

[amoeba]

This is my first time posting on the Kiene Thread..Ive been lurking for years and never had much worthwhile to contribute. I would have to say that this merge is really disappointing to me.

When I first moved up to Northern California from San Diego in 1998, I became a customer at American Fly Fishing Co. while I was attending UC Davis. Even as a young customer, the pressure to buy the next best rod, the newest reel, etc etc was always very high (even though I was a college student with little money).

Ive also noticed some very unethical fishing and pictures on their facebook posts over the years. A golden trout covered in dirt and held up for a picture...first off why would you do that to an endangered fish, and secondly why would you take a picture of it, and finally why in god's name would you post said picture on facebook??????

I met Maury Hatch a few years back and he turned me onto Kiene's. I would have to say that EVERYONE on staff at Kienes have been incredibly helpful, friendly, and honest. I have never once felt pressure to buy a more expensive piece of equipment than I needed, and thus I ended up spending a lot more money there than I would have otherwise.

April 1st (merger -D day) is most certainly a sad day for the sacramento fly fishing community as we all lose a great shop with a fantastic culture.

I for one am looking forward to knowing the staff at Fly Fishing Specialties better.

Why (in God's name)? Because its allowed, so next time you post, please don't misinform. Not all golden trout are listed and retention is allowed as described in State regulations. I'm not sure of the picture you're mentioning, but if it were from those alpine lakes where lake plants of trout resulted in local extirpations of our native amphibians (which are now listed), I would give them a medal for every large golden trout they caught and killed.

[TaylerW]

Is anyone else just happy to have a fly shop? We are very fortunate to have the shops we do, many fishermen have to order online or shop at cabelas. Before you make an assumption of how the new shop will be, check it out. Don't knock it till you try it

[Larry S]

Agree with the positive thinkers on this one. The sky is not falling! Just look at the number of Kiene
shop regulars staying on.
Best to all,
Larry S

[Paul B.]

Hi Taylor, I'm grateful to have a shop(s) here as well. I think most of us here are.
Makes me want to visit the other one as well. I haven't been there since the 90s!!

[Bob G]

A quick response to Andrew's (Andy Guibord) post.

I would follow you, as well as the other Kiene's staff, anywhere! Your continuing on at Kiene's simply makes it very simple, comfortable, and very positive for all.

Thank You, Bob

[Mr T]

I went in Saturday to demo a BVK, there was a seminar going on, it was Andy and another guy in there.
No pressure, looked around, asked to demo, got it rigged up and Andy says " go ahead and take it out back to check it out. No worries, no stress, no pressure to watch the rod doesnt get swiped. Same as I remember it being for years and years at the shop. I test cast the rod, loved it, went inside and bought it- chatted striper fishing for a bit while ringing it up.
Low-key, low pressure, just how I want to be dealt with at my favorite shop.

I made the choice to drive from woodland to sac to get the rod on a saturday even though I could have bought it online and had it a week earlier. Glad I did.

I've shopped both stores before this announcement- bought gear from Gary when he was dealing Orvis over across from Loehmann's plaza. He's a good guy and I have to think this will end more as a positive than a negative.

I'll still make the trip when I need stuff- I like the shop. Good people.

[Terry Thomas]

We have the new work schedule and you will still see the same "core Kiene family" that you have grown to trust. I've known Gary for over 30 years and he is a good guy. A new travel connection and an efficient online presence gives us a chance to serve the fly fishing community better than ever before.

[Scott V]

Will my American Fly Fishing gift certificate that I just won be good at Kiene's now?

[Frank R. Pisciotta]

Scott---Good question.

In a similar vein; early this month, before the announcement of the two-shop merger, I purchased on-line two (2) measurement replacement nets from American. One "guide" net and a "large" one; the former being bigger and at more cost. I e-noted (twice) and requested how to proceed replacing the "guide" net for the smaller "large" net. I did not want the differential in the pricing ($12); merely a replacement. Haven't heard anything relative to doable or not.

Frank R. Pisciotta

[Geoff H.]

Somehow, I think that Kiene's/American will take care of it and you will be a happy customer. Living in Redding I don't get in to those shops as much as I did when we lived in Folsom but the few times I have dropped in since moving, the customer service has been excellent, as always. Also, with Tim Fox involved in management, things are bound to be OK.

[Darian]

Went to Kiene's to pick up some hooks, materials, etc. Wonder of wonders, nothing's changed. Met Gary in the parking lot and had a little congratulatory chat, then went in and had a visit with the staff and made my purchases. Same great place to go and hang out.... Hopefully, that will last until I'm no longer around.

[E.Drucker]

Why (in God's name)? Because its allowed, so next time you post, please don't misinform. Not all golden trout are listed and retention is allowed as described in State regulations. I'm not sure of the picture you're mentioning, but if it were from those alpine lakes where lake plants of trout resulted in local extirpations of our native amphibians (which are now listed), I would give them a medal for every large golden trout they caught and killed.

Class act all the way boss!

Not an alpine lake fish..it was a small stream fish on the john muir trail (maybe just a bronze medal for killing the small ones?)..some pack trip I suppose. The picture I referenced has since been taken down, but there are some other pictures on their facebook page that speak volumes.

https://www.facebook.com/111571142204095/photos/a.670282596332944.1073741850.111571142204095/670286112999259/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/111571142204095/photos/a.670282596332944.1073741850.111571142204095/670282792999591/?type=3&theater