Single hand rod conversion & Micro spey line

[Rmacneil656]

Hey All,
Hoping to get a bit of advise from people who have done this before. I have my trout rod 9ft 5 wt, medium fast action. I love this rod as we go way back, it was my fist rod, given to me by my dad about 15 years ago. Over the last year my fishing style evolved. I ditched bobbers ( almost altogether :-) ) and really got into spey casting & swinging flies. This was for two main reasons: I have a bad shoulder, so repetitive mending while indicator fishing really irritates my shoulder & I have a really active style of fishing so I like stripping, twitching and controlling the swing. I do also like to know when I get a grab ( even if I don't hook up).

I was looking into buying a 4 wt switch and then I came across rod conversions. I have a 2nd handle and have everything prepped to add it to the rod ( hopefully this weekend). My biggest questions are about line. I want to make a skagit style line that I can add tips to. Plus 7.5-10ft of floating, intermediate and sinking tip combos. I figure a skagit style line between 225-250 grains should load the rod nicely, but I am looking for suggestions about overall line length.

Also my biggest question is: how reliable is welding a line yourself?

I have a ton of used lines that are great candidates. I have 2 used wf8s and a 7 switch chucker with a damaged front loop. I was thinking of taking about 11-15 ft of the switch chucker head ( its roughly 19 grains per foot ( so about 200-275 grains)

I was thinking of welding a loop at the front and back end, then using a mono shooting line.

What are your guys thoughts & tips ( especially about line welding)

[Rick J]

I would probably stay in the 12 to 17 foot range for a head - if you include a 10' tip to that you are at 2.4 to 3 times rod length. I would likely look at the lower end to just make casting really easy - if you do this you really need to keep a very compact stroke so you don't blow anchors. On these lines it does help to have a bit of a tapered back end to the line though not totally necessary. I have never used welds and just use hollow braid and it works well. but have at it with welds if you are up to it!!

Good luck

[Rmacneil656]

I would probably stay in the 12 to 17 foot range for a head - if you include a 10' tip to that you are at 2.4 to 3 times rod length. I would likely look at the lower end to just make casting really easy - if you do this you really need to keep a very compact stroke so you don't blow anchors. On these lines it does help to have a bit of a tapered back end to the line though not totally necessary. I have never used welds and just use hollow braid and it works well. but have at it with welds if you are up to it!!

Good luck

When you use hollow braids how do you seal the end of he line so it does not get water logged? I am going to be cutting a line down to size so I figured welding may kill two birds with one stone.
I calculated that at 14ft I should have 260 grains which will put me in the ball park.

[troutless]

Hey All,


Also my biggest question is: how reliable is welding a line yourself?

[...]

I was thinking of welding a loop at the front and back end, then using a mono shooting line.

What are your guys thoughts & tips ( especially about line welding)

How reliable...anywhere from bulletproof to a total disaster. Like anything else there is great variance depending on materials and experience.

I would advise getting an adjustable-temp heat gun and putting in quite a bit of practice before you slice anything not replaceable, particularly if you are welding a short head or a belly. Takes a bit to understand temperature control, when you have a solid weld vs. when you have melted the line to the core, etc. And a botched loop eats a lot of line.

I have had mixed results with older/used lines. Some are fine, but, the problem rate is definitely higher.

I have pretty much given up on welding front terminal loops (ie to which leader is directly attached). Too many issues with durability, even when done by people with much greater skills than me. Back loops, and in-line loops (attaching tips), not so many issues. There is a lot of stress put on a front loop in a floating line, especially if you have a tendency to blow anchors. Not that I would ever do that. :o

PU seems easier to get good results from than PVC.

Peter Charles has some good videos:
http://www.hooked4life.ca/h4l/video_gallery/line_welding/line_welding.html

If you have a bunch of old lines with no bright future, I would say, go for it, worst case you'll learn a lot!

[Cmcculloch]

You may want to call Kiene's. I believe they have the equipment to weld fly lines. I remember seeing some posts when they got the equipment.

[Rmacneil656]

By Old lines the switch chucker that I plan on using as my head is only about a year old. It was my first setup for my switch rod. When trying to swing I got caught on a nasty sharp boulder, not only did it really chew up the first foot of the head but the line cut through the factory welded loop, that was because but I was running straight tippet to the head as I didn't know any better. I have been saving it as I figured one day I may bring it back into service with a braided loop or something.

I also have a two year old stretch of wf8 that had a similar fate I may make a 10 ft floating tip out of this and just practice with the rest. I had already cut this line up before for some other project. I tried my hand at welding a junk piece it last night and scorched the line a bit. I was using a blow torch and black shrink tubing so I couldn't tell how much I had heated the line up. the weld was solid, but the line broke where it was scorched at the end.

As Cmcculloch said Kienes isn't a bad option. I called them yesterday to ask them if they did this after a buddy told me they made a sink tip for him with welded tips. I may just take it in there and have it done right the first time lol.

Other update: I started on the rod last night with beer in hand. Only regret is should have taken before & after pictures. Anyways I cut off the end cap, and used a dremel to remove the excess glue that dried at the bottom during the building process. I have some ideas on how I would like to attach the handle, I'll put some pictures up later tonight and would like to get everyone's opinion on before I proceed.

[Blueracer]

Ryan, I second Rick on the loops. I add usually three nail knots (at least two) and like to finish them with UV knot sense (although it's not needed) and you're set to go.

Good step by step:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-jLShjhMqI

[Rmacneil656]

10244

Ok so here is where I am at: i have the back cap cut off as shown in the photo. Unfortunatly the blank and the wood only leave me about a half inch of working room. Before the blank starts.

I was thinking or using different a small diamater rod that fits inside the blank, and tapering ut a ring that fits inside the handle this will act as stibility and the inside rod will act as the extention. Then i can glue the cork handle to that.

My other thought is to take the cork I have and just make a screw on adaptor that threads onto the back of the rod. Then maybe I could put some sort of pin or screw to keep it from twosting off.

Thoughts?

[Rmacneil656]

I've also changed my line game plan: I'm going to get an older skagit line (new in box but older rio skagit flight) for 25$. It will have a front loop welded to it. It should be roughly 17grains/ft. I'll have to scale it before I cut it, but that should put me in the 13-15ft head ball park I'm going for. Enough to throw t-6 or t8 with a cone head zonker trailing a soft hackle.

Then if i have Kienes weld a loop it will be at the rear and not take as much punishment casting. Or I can do nail knots. Eaither way I'll feel more confident in my setup if the front loop is factory.

[Fly Guy Dave]

I am currently in the process of converting a 7-8 weight single handed rod into a switch rod. I cut off the butt end of the 7-8, after taking off the old grip and reel seat, then inserted about six inches of another old rod I cut up, coated it with epoxy and added about another foot from the same rod I cut up to the end of the 7-8. The epoxy coated piece inside goes in about three inches on each side and the seam is pretty small. It should now accommodate the front and rear cork and the reel seat, which the supplier says is 21.3 inches long. The cork should cover up everything and it should look (and hopefully cast) like a complete rod. We'll see... I'm in the process of reaming out the cork and dry fitting the pieces before I epoxy it. I haven't yet begun to think about lines and grains and such things.

--F.G. Dave

[Rmacneil656]

So I just went for it this morning. It turned out good, in th future there are a few things I would do to clean up the appearance. I ended up threading in a piece of 1/4 threaded steel, and jb welded it in place. Then once the extention rod was secure I added some sports tape on the two ends of the rod so it would center the cork. Then added jb weld inside the cork to keep it in place. Should hold, but next time I would like to order a trim piece to make the cork look flush.

Ordered a line that I'm going to cut down to size, backing and 20lb running line. We'll see what happens when I put it all together! I'll probably have the line in by next weekend. I may test it out next weekend at thw Feather, or the weekend after. I'll let ya'll know how it works out!

1025010251

[Rick J]

re welding

http://poppysspeycastingforum.forumchitchat.com/post/weld-loop-advice-7267045?pid=1285956414#post1285956414

http://vimeo.com/117008675

[Mark Kranhold]

Looks good! Gary Anderson of ACR rods used to have a telescoping lower butt section he had manufactured. You twist the butt and pull down then twist again and it locks in place, now you can cast 2 handed.

[Rmacneil656]

re welding

http://poppysspeycastingforum.forumchitchat.com/post/weld-loop-advice-7267045?pid=1285956414#post1285956414

http://vimeo.com/117008675


Great RIO video Rick! I may buy a heat gun from harbor freight and give it another shot. I think my other issue is I need to also find clear shrink tubing, my local hardware store had only Black. I used a torch and scorched the line because I couldn't tell if it had melted yet.

[Rmacneil656]

Looks good! Gary Anderson of ACR rods used to have a telescoping lower butt section he had manufactured. You twist the butt and pull down then twist again and it locks in place, now you can cast 2 handed.

I thought of making a threaded adapter to glue the cork too, so I could just thread it onto the end when I needed it, but I couldn't think of a good way to keep it from twisting off. Plus the end cap was hallow, I didn't want the leverage of the second handle to crack break off the thin threaded tubing.

[Rmacneil656]

OK, so I never posted the conclusion to this rod build or modification. Here is what ended up happening, steelhead season came around and this rod sat. I was experimenting with welding lines and then put it all away as steelhead season came into full swing :-). So the other day I took this rod out and picked up where I left off. I finally decided that I would be cutting down a line to get the weight I wanted.

I cut down a 435 Scandi 32ft line into two new lines. A skagit with the but section measuring 13 ft and weighing in at about 250 grains, and a mini scandi weighing in at about 170 grains in 19 ft.

Instead of welding the lines, I learned that you can double them over and thread wrap them and epoxy the thread. Holds very well and you can color coat your lines. Only disadvantage is that they are tough to fit though the rod guides.

The video link is of some casting, first time out with the rod. Setup is the 9 ft converted 5wt, 13 ft skagit and ten ft of type 3 polyleader, 3ft of 10lb maxima and a cone head zonker. Caught 2, lost 2 more. I have found my off season getaway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmSn2PCVAVI&feature=youtu.be

[troutless]

Thanks for updating us.

Oh, nice touch with the YouTube categorization. Looks pretty good to me, actually.