Pyramid Lake Smash down barb VS True barbless hook

[gene goss]

I belong to a couple of fly clubs GBF and CFFU......some of the fishouts and clinics that i teach i encourage the members to fish barbless, mostly for my safely......LOL.
With Pyramid Lake being barbless i need to think about how to encourage other members to learn how to fish barbless , most of the people that i talk to just smash down the barb and go fishing. Ten years ago i decide to fish barbless all the time for any kind of fish, i didn't like the ideal of smashing down a barb so i started using a hooks that was design to be barbless and it was the best decision i made in my fly fishing career.
I know a lot of the form members have been fishing Pyramid Lake for a couple of years now barbless and i would welcome any feed back you may have.
I posted these web sites here for you to look at, and maybe share your ideal about smash down barb VS true barbless hooks.
http://warmwaterchronicles.com/articles/to-barb-or-not-to-barb/

http://ncflyfishingteam.com/barbless-hooks-the-key-to-upping-your-catch-rate/

[gene goss]

With over 400 hits and not one reply, i guess i'm the only one that thinks this way about smashing down a barb......its just my fishing style....i'm always looking for some way to improve something.
I looked up flies for sale for Pyramid Lake on the internet.....and almost every fly had a barb on it.....hmmmmmm

http://azwanderings.com/category/fly-box/

http://pyramidlakeflyfishing.com/product-category/flies/

http://mimicflyfishing.com/workshop/pyramid-lake/

[Blueracer]

Hi Gene!

Are you saying / asking about the best way to fish barbless? It sounds like the best way you found is to start with a barbless hook - I agree.

However, many hooks aren't sold barbless in the style we want. I have found the best way is to smash the barb in the vice before tying the fly.

[Darian]

Gene,.... Seems to me that "....encouraging other members to learn how to fish barbless...." is more about using barbless hooks than creating them. If you're talking about giving presentations at one of your clubs, both can easily be covered at the same time.

For my own fishing, using a hook designed/manufactured as barbless isn't much different, functionally, than using one with the barb crimped down by the user. Barbless is barbless. The only real problem I see with the latter is that if the barb isn't crimped down enough (a subjective judgment), it might be seen as illegal by DFW wardens.

When tying flies, I've found that it takes less time for me to tie a pattern on a hook manufactured as barbless over one that I have to remember to crimp the barb.

This probably doesn't add up to anything you haven't thought of already....

[gene goss]

Blueracer thanks for your reply.....if you are going to tie your own fly for Pyramid Lake, would it be better to buy a barbless hook to start with, or buy a hook with a barb and smash it down.
Lets say you want to buy a fly for Pyramid.....and you had a choice of either to buy a barbless fly or a barbed fly that you have to smash the barb down.....which is the better one to buy.

[gene goss]

Thanks Darian for your reply ....we all have to fish Pyramid Lake barbless, i do teach in my clinics about how to flight a fish, and ask them to fish barbless for the clinic and fishouts......i'm no expert on fly fishing, i just share with others what i learn....and barbless fishing at Pyramid is new for all of us.

[Ralph]

There are limited styles of hooks that come barbless and you pay a premium for them. Smash the barb with your vice or pliers. They will be barbless. Making a mountain out of a molehill IMHO.

[JasonB]

I would have to say I agree, and I wish there were more hooks available that were manufactured barbless. Like a lot of folks that tie their own, I too find it best to just pinch the barb before fitting it in the vise. Thing is I do buy some flies from time to time, out of desperation or for a little inspiration. I have hardly ever found any barbless ones, even in shops located on or near waters with barbless regs. I think it would be great to see more barbless hooks more readily available, both for tying or tied flies in shops.

If the question was about fishing with barbless, I just don't really see any issue there whatsoever. Barbless is all I fish everywhere, for everything. There are plenty of other ways that I manage to miss/loose fish, something as subtle as barbless vs barbed I could care less about. It seems self evident that they are much less harmful to the fish, and to myself and others too; seems a no brainer to forgo the barb.
JB

[gene goss]

There are limited styles of hooks that come barbless and you pay a premium for them. Smash the barb with your vice or pliers. They will be barbless. Making a mountain out of a molehill IMHO.

Thanks for your reply Ralph.....sorry about making a mountain out of a molehill issue....and you are right about the limited styles of hooks.

[gene goss]

I would have to say I agree, and I wish there were more hooks available that were manufactured barbless. Like a lot of folks that tie their own, I too find it best to just pinch the barb before fitting it in the vise. Thing is I do buy some flies from time to time, out of desperation or for a little inspiration. I have hardly ever found any barbless ones, even in shops located on or near waters with barbless regs. I think it would be great to see more barbless hooks more readily available, both for tying or tied flies in shops.

If the question was about fishing with barbless, I just don't really see any issue there whatsoever. Barbless is all I fish everywhere, for everything. There are plenty of other ways that I manage to miss/loose fish, something as subtle as barbless vs barbed I could care less about. It seems self evident that they are much less harmful to the fish, and to myself and others too; seems a no brainer to forgo the barb.
JB

Thanks Jason for your reply....i'm seeing a lot more barbless hooks for fly tying in the fly shops now, which is great for a barbless fishing person.

[gene goss]

I guess i knew the answer to this post before it was posted.......thanks for all the hits and the inputs

The thinking is a smash down barb is better then no bard at all.....when you smash down a barb there could be a little barb barely sticking up that could help keep the hook in, and with that little ray of hope you will keep smash down the barb so that it will barely pass the barbless hook test.

[David Lee]

Gene -

I only fish barbless , and I agree with you - de-fanging a hook is better than using one that comes barbless from the factory . Not because of any leftover barb-point .... but from the hump left over . I'd hope , when fishing in a area that required barbless .... that whoever is making the call counts that tiny hump as an attempt at crushing the barb down . BTW , I don't drop any more Fish when using barbless than I did using barbed hooks way back when .

D.~

[Darian]

Gene,.... Not meaning to beat a dead horse but I'm not sure you can conclude that, "The thinking is a smash down barb is better then no bard at all...." from what was posted by others in this or that crimping down a barb is done, ".... with that little ray of hope you will keep smash down the barb so that it will barely pass the barbless hook test." I may be wrong but what I took from prior posts was that crimping barbs was more convenient and less costly than trying to track down hooks that're manufactured barbless as there just aren't many models and/or volumes available as yet.

When I'm tying, I smash down barbs for convenience, not hoping to barely pass some subjective test of whether my hook is truly barbless or not. When crimping a barb, if I'm still in doubt as to whether a nub will somehow snag in a fishes jaw, I file down the nub. Easily done but not very often necessary.

[James W]

Let me throw in a few things the long-range wahoo nuts taught me. (Wahoo are notoriously hard to hook and hold.)
Thin hook points penetrate much better, so they would file down the sides of the point. The Umpqua Competition hooks I use most all the time share the long thin point characteristic.
When tying anything that'll be fished with a retrieve I bend the hook in the vise to make the point slightly offset (kirbed). By getting the point off plane your hookup rate goes up. (On wahoo they make it 30 degrees!)
Suddenly remembered this tip after having a day at Davis when I only had one solid hookup out of 6 hits. Next trip I went 4 for 4.
Just something to consider . . .

[bigfly]

Gene, I haven't ever used barbs at Pyramid....
And, haven't fished with a barb for decades, whether I tye or buy.....
Do we have the game to play a fish, or do we need help from the barb?
I'd like all trout flies sold, to be barbless, period.
Besides avoiding a spanking (ticket).....it's the right thing to do for the fish.
One tip though, use smooth jawed hemos to pinch those lil rascals down.
Then, check your work by running it through your pack, or shirt before the cast.
The warden will thank you......

Jim

[JohnD]

I try to make mine as flat as possible. Not just for the fish, but for when I have to take them out of me - which happens at least once a year. I've never worried that a fish will pop off. If it does it's because I did something wrong, not because of the hook.
I'd buy all my flies barbless if I could. I tie with barbless hooks exclusively....but I don't tie much anymore.

[JasonB]

I guess i knew the answer to this post before it was posted.......thanks for all the hits and the inputs

The thinking is a smash down barb is better then no bard at all.....when you smash down a barb there could be a little barb barely sticking up that could help keep the hook in, and with that little ray of hope you will keep smash down the barb so that it will barely pass the barbless hook test.

Actually, I must respectfully differ with that personally. While I do very much take care to follow regulations, I am FAR more concerned with what seems ethical and morally consistent with my concern to minimize my own impact. Honestly, as I posted earlier, I don't really worry about how barbless hooks affect my hookup or landing ratios. If I was really that concerned about the numbers game, which I'm not, I would put a lot more worry and concern into other areas that I have a lot more control over... like moon phase and barometric pressure :rolleyes: Thankfully I've been fortunate to have more than enough success to keep me happy, barbless and all
JB

[Blueracer]

Gene - definitely to buy one that you don't have to smash down. People go on their merry way and end up forgetting to smash it down. Plus by then, once you're buying it, you just want it to be barbless already so you don't have to deal with smashing it down. Yeah, not sure why they don't tie/sell them barbless to begin with for Pyramid.