hook set?

[JasonB]

Just thought I might revisit an old topic, one that I continue to rethink in my own fishing with each fish it would seem. Specifically to swinging, how do you respond to a grab? I guess I should clarify that to how do you intend to respond, rather than how do you actually respond, as I know that those are often two different answers for me. At any rate, do you: set the hook, let a loop of line slip, wait, do nothing, hope/pray??? Do you have different strategies for different types of water, or different parts of the swing?
I've gone back and forth on whether or not to cary a loop, and I have lost plenty of fish by setting really fast and hard on the grab. On the other hand, most of the fish I have hooked and/or landed were ones that hit when I didn't have a loop to give them so I can't really say how well the loop would work on the hookup.

My last trip I had finally found a run where I was getting some action; after two days of nothing you can imagine how I responded to the first thunderous grab. Yanked back so hard and so fast, and that was the end of that. Fortunately I had two more grabs in the same run, the second time around it was one of those subtle little peck... peck, peck... PECK, PECK, PECK kind of things which I thought might be a trout. I simply waited out the first tentative pecks, then when there was just a little more weight behind them I set back pretty firm and was rewarded with about a 5lb chrome bright hen. Really glad I didn't set the hook right away, but on the other hand I don't think that letting a loop of line slip away would have hooked the fish either... As I said, curious to hear other thoughts and experiences on the matter.
Cheers, JB

[Bruce Slightom]

The hook set. There are many factors involved, basically the different ways the fish takes. My general rule is to not set the hook but to wait to feel the weight. Then all is needed is to raise the rod tip. When the fly is being swing across current the line is basically tight, when setting the hook many times you are pulling the fly away from the fish. By waiting you are allowing the fish to turn and bring the hook into the corner of the mouth.
I do not hold a loop. There are not many of us who can anticipate the take and the discipline to let line slip. I will keep the rod tip up thus putting some “slack” between the rod tip and the water this serves the same purpose as the loop. If I am looking at the birds or day dreaming when the fish takes I have a built in loop.
I also do not hold the line at all. I use the index finger to caress the line to get the feel of what the line is doing, especially when using a sink tip and a deeply fish fly. Two advantages to this, I think that there is more sensitivity than holding the line to the handle and when a fish strikes the natural impulse is to tighten your grip. Let the fish pull line off the reel before you tighten up on the line. This also is a more relaxed way to fish.
As the line swings into the hang down position swing the rod tip one way or the other, towards the bank or the center of the river. Or make mends one way or the other. This keeps the line from being too straight putting some slack on the water and also will speed the fly up. This is important when fishing tips and heavy flies and it will help to keep from snagging up on the dangle.

[Rick J]

HMMM - see Bruce beat me to it!!! I was typing and posted before his came up - so what Bruce does!!!!! Bruce - how about those Giants!!!!!!!!!!

I always try to hold off until I feel the weight of the fish. If they hammer it - that is weight and they typically hook themselves and scream off down river. The majority of fish generally just stop it or as you say a coulple of pecks then some weight - I just lift the rod tip - no hard set after I feel the weight.

Two tough ones are - on a skater - I try never to set the hook until I feel the weight - this is tough as it is visual and I have been known to set up when they first grab rather than wait for them to turn. Second really tough take is on the hang down - here I try to set to the side rather than straight back once I feel the weight

And I do not carry a loop but generally do fish with a slight elevated rod tip rather than the tip right at the water

NOW TARPON..........

[jbird]

setting the hook is a knee jerk response that many guys do despite knowing not to. Its a bit like someone sneaking up on you and yelling "BOO"!! You jump! I think some of the most seasoned swingers inadvertently do it from time to time based on the viciousness of the grab.

I like to keep my rod tip very close to the water with no loop held. My drag set pretty soft. I like to hear drag coming off before I raise the rod. And I don't raise it much. The fish almost always makes a hard first run and you don't need the rod high for this. I wont even go into a high rod position (or it could be a side pressure rod position) until the fish stops and the fight begins.

[Terry Thomas]

I also prefer to hold the rod tip elevated with the rod/reel held low by my side. I do,however, keep a very small loop in my fingers. This technique has helped to lessen the "trigger" factor. Now half pounders are whole different story.

[maebrown]

Doing nothing seems to work best for me most of the time. No loop. I've lost many more steelhead by "setting" the hook than my not setting it. Listen to the click and paw for a few seconds, raise the rod, maybe give it a bit of a tug to make sure the hook is set, then let it run as long as it wants.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Very good info....

I have just faked it for years.

I have been caught with my line too tight by a vicious strike ending in a sudden break off.

At nearly 70 I hope I can go a few more times before I am not physically able.

I have really good memories of wonderful trips on dozens of beautiful river.

I just hope we can inspire more people to swing flies for Steelhead with the fall being the most productive.

.

[JasonB]

Good stuff guys.
Appreciate the level of experience and the knowledge being shared. I am a bit surprised by how similar the responses have been, with fairly subtle differences for the most part. I had kind of expected a wider range of thoughts and opinions on the topic. I am curious, in part since Terry mentioning half pounders being a different story; how many of you change tactics between floating line versus sunken line presentations, or even summer versus winter fish? I think I do tend to have a bit different technique with sunken lines, but it's more of a response than a well thought out intentional technique; or perhaps I'm simply dealing with a different kind of fish when I have had takes on a floating line system. Interesting stuff, the things I day dream of when I can't be standing knee deep in the river...
JB

[sisyphusmpn]

I agree with everything Bruce said above. I've caught a lot of BC steelhead and have experienced the many subtle, and not so subtle, variations in takes. For example, you mentioned the peck, peck, peck. While I would dearly love to see a video of what is actually going on in those moments, I've learned you've just got to wait until you feel the weight. Usually. Also, I find that if I change flies, to something smaller generally, that fish will hammer it the second time around. I watch a lot of anglers throw the same fly back at the fish two or three times and get the pecking result a second time and then nothing. I had several fish on the Babine recently that had me changing flies three and four times before it was game on. But I stuck by the mantra: never leave a player. Moral: don't be afraid to change up. the rest will do the fish good and you'll become a better knot tier.

[Dan Harrison]

Great topic because how many times have we heard a report (myself included) had a great day two strong tugs but no hookups! Tug is the drug and so on. I love the tug just as much as anyone but would much rather fight the fish as well. Looks like some guys already posted some great methods I am just to high strung use them I think. Tried it and just don't have the zen like patience to let the fish load the rod before raising. I mean, I wake myself from deep sleep setting the hook in my dreams sometimes. I will coming flying up in bed swinging my arms. I have straight scared the #%%^ out of my wife. I am a hook setting freak of sorts. I use the loop method, 3 foot loop held with loose pressure between my thumb and rod. Rod point down and at fly, loop held loosely. So loose in fact I don't feel much of a initial tug at all just the line slips out from under my thumb and its solid game on a quarter second later. Fish grab and turn allowing the turn no matter the method with increase hookups.

[JasonB]

I mean, I wake myself from deep sleep setting the hook in my dreams sometimes. I will coming flying up in bed swinging my arms. I have straight scared the #%%^ out of my wife. I am a hook setting freak of sorts.

Ha! Man, can I relate! Funny story there, I was flying home from Alaska this fall, and was dog tired so I fell asleep pretty early on in the flight. Dream after dream of hooking/fighting/landing/loosing fish, etc. At one point I woke myself and my poor seat neighbor up with a world class "power-set"; I kind of remember the dream and all I can say is that it involved a very large and aggressive silver. Felt pretty self conscious at almost knocking out the poor guy next to me on the plane. Thankfully he was an angler and knew exactly what was going on, and we had some some pretty good fishing chats a bit later in the flight.

[Rmacneil656]

I just spent three and a half days on the trinity. Half pounders are easy to let hook themselves. I found that I was getting a lot of "thumps" from player fish and I tended to set the hook like I was nymphing, straight up and out of the fishes mouth. I can now saw from experience that that is the wrong way to do it. I missed the same fish three times in a row (after switching flies and backing up 20 feet and working down again). I tried the pinch line method and still end up lifting. I finally corrected the problem at the end of the trip by holding the rod with the left hand or holding the rod by the lower handle. I like holding the rod by the second handle because it dosent allow me the torque to lift the rod even if I wanted to. The one fish I nailed on the swing as a 30 inch wild hen. She thumped, and while I waited for the line to take off nothing. I ended up pulling horizontally on the rod in more of a strip set fashion. This set the hook really well and led to a great fight and a quick release while trying to tail the fish ( bang my head!).

Question:Does anyone advise against a horizontal hook set? Traditionally I run my drag on the light to medium side incase of a violent strike. Just want to break the habit early if this is not recommended.

[bigfly]

When dry flyin' or bobbering, and the fish is up-stream, I think sweep-set horizontally and downstream.
But once they are downstream of me, it's a strip-set.
I've said before...The hardest thing in streamer fishing, to me, is a strip-set, and if no one's home on the set....feed it to them.
Seems to me, they "thump it" to stun, before eating, and believe they've done this, when it falls back to them.
I think a rod set reduces hook-ups, by taking it away from them. And with a long rod, that's a long way away....
We are all wired to rod-set like a big dog.....the question arises, can you rewire? Over-right your software, so to speak.
Taught myself to do this by keeping the rod tip in the water until it's fish on.
More than a few full body shudders involved, before it became "learned".
Drag is set lightly, and I keep a little loop in my hand, for shock resistance.....
There is nothing sweeter for me, than when I get this right, and.....FISH ON!!!
If we only get a few grabs, then the set is pretty important........


Jim

[Dan Harrison]

Ha! Man, can I relate! Funny story there, I was flying home from Alaska this fall, and was dog tired so I fell asleep pretty early on in the flight. Dream after dream of hooking/fighting/landing/loosing fish, etc. At one point I woke myself and my poor seat neighbor up with a world class "power-set"; I kind of remember the dream and all I can say is that it involved a very large and aggressive silver. Felt pretty self conscious at almost knocking out the poor guy next to me on the plane. Thankfully he was an angler and knew exactly what was going on, and we had some some pretty good fishing chats a bit later in the flight.

That is some funny stuff right there. Glad I am not the only one. Haha

[itsbenlong]

I think about this all the time and really love to hear all the stories on everyones preferences. I used to fish bass tournaments years ago and have always been that guy who feels that tick and rips my rod up so hard and fast that I surprise myself that a whole fish is still on the other end. However, over the years when prefishing with my old tourney friends I often stick to only fishing the largest spro frog made and over the past three or four years that is all I throw. The reason why I am telling this story is that when fishing frogs, you have to rewire your brain like mentioned above and give it a good pause before setting the hook.

I am really good w/ frogs these days partly due to teaching myself to pause and can't believe how much it has helped me with my steelhead catching. I just have to always remember to loosen my drag after each fish or that big tug can break the line when dropping a loop.

[ycflyfisher]

I think Bruce pretty much covered all the bases as far as the WFS goes. No one fishes the greasedline any more and that’s something I’ve always found puzzling.

All the issues discussed above concerning solid hooksets and the WFS pretty much straight up evaporate 100% with the GL. Since you’re swimming the fly across the river more perpendicular to the current rather than fishing the fly on a WFS tether where the fly assumes an upstream orientation (pointed at the angler) and arcs across the river, you can hammer ‘em hard the very moment you feel anything or see the strike because the orientation of the fly on the GL pretty much insures you’re going to get a corner of the jaw hookup even if you get a grab within seconds of the line hitting the water. The fact that in the GL you’re purposely letting the 10’ or so of flyline nearest the fly form a downstream belly to swim the fly across the current, also insures that during the middle and later portion of the GL presentation, the fish has turned, by the time you lift that slack out of the line. Also because there really isn’t a “hang down” aspect to the GL, “tip of the snout” hookups rarely if ever happen.

While the hookset benefits to the GL are significant, the biggest benefit IMO is that when you get a refusal on the GL you often get some visual indicator that an adult fish moved on, but did not grab your fly. That could be something violent and obvious like a boil or blow up, or something more subtle like a buldge, or a portion of a caudal following or very momentarily emerging through the film.

On the WFS where you’re mending to keep the entire line tight to the fly, you’re also by default slowing the presentation down and allowing the fly to gain depth. With your fly 1’+ deep over most of the presentation, you’re still IMO moving those fish on the WFS and getting those refusals, but there are no visual indicators. 4 steps down and 2 casts later, you’re not even presenting the fly in that fish’s visual window unless it dropped back on the refusal. Considering that there’s usually some structure that was causing that fish to hold where it was, they usually by my account, don’t drop back.

If I had to guess, I’d say 70-75% of the adult fish I’ve landed in the KMP in Sept and Oct were fish that initially moved on, but refused the fly on the GL presentation, but I was eventually able to get them on the line by persistently hammering on them. That said, a WFS with a rigorous Tucker Twitch is often what gets those fish on the line for me. But WFS alone, and I wouldn’t even had known those fish were there. Low and slow IMO is rarely the %age method of conditions are condusive the the GL.

[speyfool]

Just a couple of weeks ago, I had one of those days I thought you'd only have in Alaska. All day long, I was getting grabs from both steelhead and salmon. It was such an active day and feeling satisfied, I started experimenting with hooksets. Previously, I almost always did the same thing. Tip down to the water, hold a loop, let the fish take line then either no hookset whatsoever and let the current/fish drive it home, or a slight hookset.

Long story short. I'm now changing how I do it, at least with a sinktip. No loops, a good middle of the road drag setting and wait until I hear/feel line being taken by the fish without any interference from my finger or moving the rod. sometimes I pause a good 3-5 seconds when line begins to come off, then I finger pinch and use a steady and deliberate hookset (start slow, and briskly speed up the rod movement) to the bank with a low rod tip. My landing ratio spiked on this day enough that I'll be adjusting from here on out. Granted, it is a small sample set, but in situations that normally are tough hooksets, I was getting them.

This was working in both soft water along the bank and in fast tailouts. The only difference was the intensity of line coming off the reel (if at all in the real slow sections).

** Bonus for using this method is the sweet reel clicking when you get that first grab.

[lynnwhite44]

I go with loosening my drag, no loop, rod tip down low and not touching the fly line. It was hard to do at first because you always want to set the hook but I've gotten used to it. I usually never set the hook, I just lift the rod slowly toward the bank. Now if I can only remember to look down after every cast to see that my fly line is not wrapped around the reel handle. I lost two fish this way on a recent trip. The first one was just pecking at the fly but the second one slammed it and almost ripped my rod out of my hands and snapped my tippet.

With sink tips I sometimes have to pinch the line.