Low Profile Drift Boat vs. Skiff

[Troutsource]

If I want a boat to float central valley rivers (American, Yube, Lower Sac and Feather), plus some local lakes (Natoma, Folsom, Clementine), what would be a better choice -- a low profile drift boat or a skiff? It sounds like they're both fairly good in the wind (vs. standard drift boat), but the drift boat can handle choppier water, while the skiff can hold a bigger motor.

[Hogan Brown]

You are right about the drift boat being designed for choppier water vs the skiff. My opinion would be it all depends on how experienced you are as a rower. In rollers, swirls, and riffles there is much less margin for error with a skiff then there is with a drift boat (low or high side). You get the least bit side ways in a skiff in some rollers and you could be in trouble. A good friend of mine rows a Adipose Skiff and they are awesome to fish out of and row but I like the safety of a standard drift boat personally. My 2 cents.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

You might want both?

You might try to get out with a guide in both.

For Nor Cal I prefer an aluminum Jon boat with a tiller steer outboard jet motor, long oars, an auto pilot bow mounted electric motor plus a good anchor system. You can use this in our larger Nor Cal rivers, in lakes and in the Delta.


...but there is nothing like a drift boat but you need to shuttle most of the time.

Some prefer rafts in shallow rocky rivers.

.

[TaylerW]

I just purchased the new 2014 clacacraft eddy. As they call it a "hybrid." Basically a blend of a skiff and a full drift boat. Low sides for someone who is new on the oars though.

[Charlie Gonzales]

Since I took a job with the State and wont be guideing any more i will probly sell my low side Hyde. it only has has one season of guideing out of it and is in greatd shape. It has 3 box pedastals so you can walk around the entire boat. I wil probly ask around $6k.

[Troutsource]

You might want both?

For Nor Cal I prefer an aluminum Jon boat with a tiller steer outboard jet motor, long oars, an auto pilot bow mounted electric motor plus a good anchor system. You can use this in our larger Nor Cal rivers, in lakes and in the Delta.

.

Bill, this is an interesting idea as I am trying to square the circle here. I have a brother that fly fishes rivers with me (including Sac, Yube, American, Feather), plus an 11-year old son who likes to fish anywhere, plus a wife and 8-year old daughter that would probably like fishing lakes (or at least riding around a little). A boat like this could eliminate the need for a shuttle on the river, plus cut down on the rowing, and be great on the lakes. I have a few questions (for anyone with insight):

How much would a decent used outfit like this cost compared to a drift boat?

What size motor would you recommend? Wouldn't the outboard be a problem in the shallower water?

Do I need to worry about stability on the river in a boat like this (there are no casting stations like in the drift boats)?

Thanks.

[Dave E.]

TS,

The boat and I am around the area every third week or so, if you'd like to know how a mid profile drift boat handles in the wind/breeze on the still waters you mentioned. Maybe we can set something up so you can take a test drive in ours. ( No sales pitch, this ones my baby and it's not for sale. )

Something to keep in mind, is footprint and load. Take a gander some Saturday morning from the Sundial Bridge in Redding and stare down on the armada as they pass by. Guide's boats are often carrying a monsterous load compared to what we routinely carry. ( Those guys are grossly underpaid in my opinion. )
They often carry three adult men all hovering around 200 lb. each ( if the guides lucky ), a jumbo ice chest loaded up, gear bags, etc. etc.
I on the other hand, rarely have more than one other person in the boat and we're both light weights ( coming in under 150 ). We're minimalist, so typically we are only boarding two fanny packs and a rod a piece, a little playmate ice chest, etc.

With nearly all the weight forward of midship, almost all of the boats designed in the past few years or those with updated hull designs are a snap to row under the kind of conditions we operate at. My wife rows our boat as much as I do, in fact she's an ex-white water rafter and kind of a rowing nut, who just likes to put the boat through it's paces.

Only you know what you'll be asking your boat to do over the years. If the delta and a lot of large lake fishing or lower end of the valley rivers is a part of that plan, then I think Bill's advice about motorized skiff is best. By the way, when you mentioned skiff, I took it that you were thinking about a trout skiff ( RO, Clack or Hyde ), not a flat bottom / mod V aluminum power boat.
For us, our boat needed to go beyond the central valley. It'll be in New Mexico, Idaho, Montana and Oregon. So we went with a mid profile boat.

Good luck with your quest,
Dave

Shots are of the Natoma narrows above the bridges and Granite Bay.

[JAWallace]

I'm a fan of cathedral hull glass boats because they are much more stable than a tin boat of the same size, quieter, and often have better hull designs. I'm NOT a fan of large boats for smaller waters, and find 12'-14' glass skiffs perfect for my needs including drifting the American and Delta.

A 13' Boston Whaler is an excellent choice. You'll pay around $3500 for one in decent shape with an older 35-40 HP 2 stroke. If you can live with the smoker, good, if not, a 25 HP 4 stroke is fine for moving two adults. A used Whaler is like investing in an asset with no interest. You won't lose much if any money, and you might make some too as the older hulls are more popular than the newer hulls.

If you can find a rolled gunwale skiff like the one Bill used to own, which is mine now, they will be less money and take a 15 HP tiller. I've had mine in the SJ during a little weather, down the American, and on most of the local lakes. It's my 17th boat and my absolute favorite to date--I like it for my needs even better than the three previous Whalers.

Another option, and I think a good one, is an inflatable. Scadden makes some great two or three person boats. You'll be in the boat for anywhere between $1500 and $3000 plus trailer (for the framed boats) and motor. Stable as a rock, but not fast because of the limitation of the outboard size on the framed boats. The frameless really are designed for electrics. I'm on my second Scadden single person 'toon and love fishing from it. I would fish out of a pontoon over any boat any day of the week, but if you're on bigger water they don't go very fast. For well under $2000 you can get a great two person inflatable with motor mount and electric motor. Good setup if you don't need to move quickly, but perfect for the rivers, especially a frame model with a small gas motor for the upstream return (on the Feather and American, not the Yuba or Lower Sac).

[Troutsource]

LocalCenters,

Thanks for the feedback. I own two one-man pontoon boats. I used to love them, but after about 10 uses I'm no longer such a fan for two reasons:

1) They're a pain in the @$$ to assemble and disassemble, especially when you're in a rush to get on the river when you arrive, and then worn out when you leave the river and it's dark. I might be able to solve that problem by keeping the frames assembled at home and using a trailer to transport them to and from the river. However, one still has to inflate/attach and deflate/detach the pontoons each trip (though I guess they could just be deflated partially instead of fully). I would be interested to hear how you cope with this issue.

2) They can get punctured. This happened to me on the last trip I took on mine (about 2.5 years ago). It was (luckily) a short trip on the American and I (luckily) had a pump on the boat. I had to stop 5 or 6 times to pump the pontoon, all the while receiving offers of help from boaters, many of whom expressed a great deal of concern about my safety. It was not a fun trip. I've since patched the hole but haven't tested it on the water.

Both of these concerns go away with a drift boat.

Some other drawbacks of pontoon (vs. drift) boat fishing in my opinion include the fact that:
- you're lower down, resulting in lower visibility and shorter casting distances (unless you have a casting platform -- but they look precarious compared to a drift boat)
- you need to remove your flippers when exiting the boat (and put them on when getting back in)
- your legs become very tired after an active day (from using your flippers)
- if a flipper breaks you're screwed unless you have an extra
- the line can get tangled around the pontoons
- it's hard to row upstream
- it's easier to lose something in the water
- it's more critical to wear a life jacket
- you can't take larger numbers of people with you unless you buy a bigger size
- there are more safety issues in general -- e.g., I would take my 11-year old son on a drift boat but not a pontoon boat
- there's less storage than on a boat

The drawbacks of drift boat fishing are:
- the oarsman can't fish while rowing (vs. in a pontoon you can move the boat with your flippers while fishing)
- you feel more detached from the river (you can go a whole day without touching it)
- no "floating EZ Boy" experience
- higher cost

It is for all of these reasons that I began looking at drift boats.

[JAWallace]

You've really been thinking this through! i think a number of your concerns would go away with a frameless toon, but they still are subject to damage. I guess I've been lucky. Otherwise, all fair pros and cons.

I still like a glass or tin skiff with a low deadrise and an outboard. You can row them pretty well, but not as well as a drift boat and they won't take the same rough water. A skiff with high sides should handle any of the waters you mentioned though, except maybe the Lower Sac at high flows.

To me a drift boat is a single purpose craft--a downstream drifter. I love them, but have never seen the need to own one for these waters. They are pigs on still water and you lose intimacy with the water. You wouldn't like it on the Delta--too slow. I'd say for you, start with a skiff, and add a small drifter if you really feel the need.

[markz]

Hi,
You might consider a tandem inflatable kayak. The person in front can fish, but the person paddling in back can't fish. If you had two inflatable kayak then you can strap them together and float four people down, but the person guiding the strapped kayaks should have some river guiding skills. I have paddled upstream on the american river without any issues by myself in a tandem inflatable kayak.

I have fished out of lakes in my inflatable kayak but it would be better to a have a motorized skiff. This is the dilema.

At least if you have an inflatable kayak it folds up and can be stored in the garage.

I have an Aire Caracal-tadem that I use occasionally because I have a six and eight year old that want to go fishing. Space is limited so I have a 10' portabote with 3.5hp on a harbor freight trailor.



Good luck
MarkZ

[JAWallace]

TS--you had asked about cost. I think you can get a pretty decent used 14' jon with a 15HP 4 stroke outboard and trailer for around $2500-$3000. You'll need a modified V hull for still water. Do NOT get a flat bottom jet sled hull and expect any comfort on still water with any chop. I had a beautiful Metalhead sled, total artwork and I loved looking at it, but HATED it on any kind of chop. Look for a deadrise of at least 3-5° which most of them have, and the modified V entry.

I once owned a conventional Klamath tin boat and even with 14' the pointed bow wastes a lot of space and isn't that stable. A mod V jon is highly space efficient and stable stem to stern. i have more room in my 12' that I had in the 14' tinnie with a sharp V entry. You'll need at least 14' with tin for stability, but a 12' glass cathedral hull skiff is fine and even more stable.

Jet or prop, your call. I like a prop for maneuverability when moving slowly, and in the D where a jet sucks weeds. On the river I just use shallow water drive and pick my way upstream carefully. Jets are better for rivers; props for still water or the Delta.

Look for a used rig like this: http://sacramento.craigslist.org/bod/4423206133.html

[Troutsource]

LocalCenters, how would such a boat handle in the rivers? For example, how stable would it be compared to a drift boat where you have a big flat bottom and casting braces? Then how would you go about managing a downstream drift without oars?

MarkZ, sounds like an interesting idea -- I'm just nervous about inflatables because of my bad trip with the pontoons.

[tcorfey]

Have you considered a square stern canoe?

I am currently considering one and rigging it with oars, paddles and an electric motor.

The canoe has a 42" beam and is 39" at the water line and 15' long it has 3 seats and holds up to 800lbs capacity.

I want it for taking my family to rivers and small lakes. I can car top it on either of our cars so we have our own shuttle service.

Places I intend to use it are: Fall river, Lower Sac below Churn Creek, Lower Stanislaus Knights to Orange B, Lake Del Valle, San Pablo Reservoir, Lewiston reservoir and a bunch of smaller lakes in the Sierras.

Now I already have a pontoon boat, a 10' pram and a 17 Whaler so I have other boats for other tasks, and I wanted to car top the boat. I felt that a Jon boat would not be as good on the river as the canoe. I considered a skiff but could not car top it. Same issue for a drift boat could not car top it. The canoe seemed pretty versatile and stable and you can have up to 3 people.

Just thought this might be an option you should consider also.

[Reese]

This smaller raft (http://www.flycraftusa.com/) might be an option for you. Its only a two man but it looks easy to throw up on top of your car and can handle most of the rivers around here. I've been thinking of getting one instead of a drift boat so I don't have to put in at a ramp and I can access some smaller rivers. It looks well-made and stable enough to stand in (though if I get one, I'll probably add a lean bar). Leaks are always an issue, but unless you buy a roto-mold drift boat, its something you have to be wary of in fiberglass or aluminum as well. Just another option out there for you.

[markz]

Hi,
I originally bought the Aire Caracal for whitewater rafting down the American River(class III section). There are 5 chambers but three main chambers (left/right side and floor). I have put a hole on the right side chamber but it doesn't completely deflate. Both times I patched and was ready to go. I'm not worried about sinking the kayak if I puncture one side-just carry a patch kit.

Mark

[Troutsource]

Thanks everyone for your input. After some soul-searching as a family man (and getting "feedback" from the wife), I've decided to get a used 14-16 foot welded aluminum boat primarily for fishing Folsom lake with my family of four (when fly-fishing, I prefer wading to floating anyway). Does anyone feel strongly about any of these brands: Gregor, Valco, Klamath, Western, West Coaster, Alumaweld, Lowe, Lund?

Also, am I going to regret getting a used 10 HP 2-stroke or 4-stroke (which seems to be the most common pairings)?

It looks like there are suitable deals on Craigslist for <$4000.

[TaylerW]

Hard to beat a Klamath!

[JAWallace]

Look for a hard chine. Klamath has always had them, but they are new to Gregor. The older Gregors have less stability because of the rounded chine. All the light V-entry tin boats are about the same, so the stability and bottom width are the key.

Try to get a 4 stroke. That's obvious, but no one really wants a smoker so they're hard to sell. The older light tinnys may have to be reinforced for a 4S--I know both Klamath and Gregor have specs for that. You should get at least 15 HP for more than 2 people. You'll hate less after a few plowing runs.

[markz]

Hi,
I bought a 3.5hp Tohastu 4-stroke directly from the manufacturing site in TN. They deliver direct up to 25hp, and the prices seems the best. I have not had any issues with the motor other than the gas cap leaks (bad gasket-I'm still investigating).

Mark