Nice fresh wild spring-run half-pounders are in the American R

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Yesterday, Sunday afternoon, Andy Guibord and Mark Krandhold had good luck swinging wet flies on their two-handed rods.

The three steelhead they landed were wild fresh spring run fish running 16 - 18 inches.


8721


Andy aid they are super hot fish running from 14 to 20 inches normally.

The Upper River is closed so I would fish from River Bend Park (Goethe) down stream to River Park/Cal-
Expo area.

.

[Blueracer]

Bill when you said wet flies I was thinking soft hackles but then I saw the picture which looks like a leech....did the hook go into its eye?? :/ Smaller hooks are a good idea now. Mark did you use your 4wt?

[STEELIES/26c3]

That trout's gotta have 'sharp' vision now..... da da chaaaaa

[Mark Kranhold]

Brian, I got mine on my plain & simple olive soft hackle and Andy went through deeper with his sculpin and picked up his. These spring fish are hot and spunky with good runs and air time...my favorite steelhead to catch on the A! I was throwing the 4wt. but I might have to break out the 11'7" 2wt.:eek: these fish have seen salt for how chrome they are, plus check out the sea lice!
8723

[Jeff F]

Nice! Yeah, when I lived in Sac, these fish were always on the radar. Wet wading down at H Street gettin' 'em on the 4wt and caddis dries. Good stuff.

What's the life-history of these fish? Eel? Washougal? I've gotten quite a few adult fish in the 4-6lb range over the years, but never see any spawning. But....they keep coming back year after year.....

[Mark Kranhold]

Jeff, I love catching those bigger adults in the spring run, not to many mixed in the bunch but when it happens.. Oh boy!!! I remember one year hooking a 29 incher in April on a size 12 birdsnest! I have talked to many old timers and it sounds like these spring fish are our true native strain American river steelhead? Maybe Dennis Lee will chime in, he knows the histroy of all the Central Valley steelhead.

[Randy Lee]

The Steel is Reel! I wish I had a steel head river in my back yard.Second thought its probably best I don't or I wouldn't make a living this time of year. Thanks for sharing.
Yours enviously,
Randy

[STEELIES/26c3]

Here's some info excerpted from a discussion on another board years ago. Much of it seems logical and concomitant with what I know from my experience and what I have gleaned from others who have fished the river since before the dams were constructed. I'd be leery of anyone claiming "irrefutable truths"... but still a good basic read...


Dang, Covelo, I am impressed! I bow to you.

Yes, the only way to conclusively find out which one of us is right would be to ID the genetic markers on those late fish. The fact that the AR fish look very much different than those Oh-so-pretty Eel River bluebacks would not be conclusive, either. And, it makes sense that they've intermixed with any remants of the AR strain.

Dang, now I've really got to put finding that report on my ever-growing list of things to do.



Jim,

The problem is that there is also a late component (bluebacks) of the Eel River strain. Some of the best fishing on the Eel River used to be in March and April. These fish were also 2-7 lbs and ripe with eggs. You can claim the fish in the American are different but there is no temporal or spatial separation preventing them from hybridizing with the Eel River strain. The idea that there is pure stock remaining is about as likely as them deciding to take the dams out.

It would not be too difficult to examine your spring run fish in the American and look for Eel River genetic markers, but since the DFG seems little interested in preserving the original strain (or believes it no longer exists) I doubt they will do it.

BTW you posted that same info on that other forum (the link I posted above) when we were discussing this. Here is that post and the reply that was made refuting it which I summarized above.
Originally Posted by steeliejim
I really think that the notion that the "half-pounder" run on the AR is representative of a residual of the native AR steelhead, is a romantic notion that we'd all like to believe is true, but it's highly unlikely. First off, the VA fish typically exhibited a half-pounder component in their respective life histories of about 30% frequency.

The residual run of steelhead that many of us are convinced are remnants of the original native steelhead run are not romantic notions but based on irrefutable facts.

Now, if you are talking about the half pounders that are caught in the winter, slender immature steelhead from 10 to 14 inches, or the run of football-shaped brightly colored rainbow-looking fish that are caught in August/Sept. I won't argue with you.

But many of us fish for steelhead in the early spring months--middle of Mar. well into April and have been doing so since the 1960's. Those fish are mature adults (very tiny eggs, but would spawn before returning to the ocean), deep-bodied and 3 to 5 pounds.

The proof? DFG's Eric Gerstung wrote a report study of these fish in the early 70's and listed the hatchery return numbers by month starting wiht the first year that the dams were finished. Any returns those first years would be natives. NO steelhead entered the hatchery until March and the run continued through April. It was because the numbers were small and got smaller in subsequent years, that the Eel River straiin was introduced. For many years, DFG ignored this remnant native strain taking all the eggs they could early in the run until they reached capacity, then stopped taking fish, some years as early as Jan. A number of people, me included, were successful in getting DFG to spread the egg take.


Gerstung's report also gives a fascinating history of the AR's steelhead run pre-Folsom/Nimbus dam, pointing out that there was a substantial steelhead run before the power facilility was built in Folsom. There was a fish ladder, but it was washed out in floods and not rebuilt. Still, a remnant of the original run hung on struggling to get past the barrier to the tributaries high in the system.

Further, there was also a spring fishery of what many were convinced were steelhead trapped in Folsom Lake at the inlets (No rubbed fins, silvery) which hasl largely disappeared.

It is unlikely that steelhead came up the AR in the fall, because, as was pointed out, flows pre-dams were very low and warm in the fall until the rains arrived. BTW, I do have a copy of that report somewhere. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to make a copy and get it to Bill for others to be able to look at. It was a great effort and gives great insight to the history of steelhead in the AR and the failings to protect AR fisheries early on.



and the reply by ycflyfisher
Your post is rather confusing to me. You may first want to reread what I initially posted because you're taking some things out of context here.

I very much would like to believe that the native run(or at least a portion of it) is being preserved in it's entirety with no genetic mixing from *******ized hatchery stock as you seem to think is "irrefutable fact" via temporal separation, but to put it as bluntly as possible I think this is highly unlikely to say the very least.

What's highly ironic is the individual who convinced me that the likelyhood that the genetic integretity of any vestige of the native AR run could somehow be preserved in the truncated AR system is slim to none was none other than Eric Gerstung-retired assoc. biologist from the DFG. This was from a conversation from around 2002-2003. There's a slim possibility but I don't think I'm remembering anything he said out of context.

I don't doubt that you have the report that you claim to have. I would be very interested in seeing it(again not because I don't believe you) but because I'm very interested in the work that Mr Gerstung accomplished during his storied career with the DFG. If your familiar with Mr. Gerstung, you're already aware the knock on EG was that he was regarded as one of the most brilliant pure scientists the DFG ever had who for the most part, couldn't be troubled with taking the time to publish his work. After retiring from the DFG, EG remained closely affiliated with said organization and was being asked still to write a summary on the state of the few remaining summer run steelhead that we have left in CA and what is know historically about these fish. Gerstung before he retired was almost irrefutably the most referenced person in scientific literature regarding summer runs in CA. Unfortunately the vast majority of those references were of the personal communication(pers. comm) nature as the paltry amount EG published on his work with these fish was not in proportion to either the volume or importance of his work.

Also ironically, Gerstung was one of those biologists that I mentioned earlier in this same thread whose opinion cut againist the grain of the conventional wisdom that a good portion of the spawning by anadramous fish in the AR basin occured historically below where the dams are now.

Again it's impossible for me to speculate exactly how you're concluding with certainty that the aforementioned work by Mr. Gerstung is indeed 'irrefutable fact' that any portion of the native AR run has been preserved in it's genetic integrity.

I'm guessing you may be jumping to some conclusions here, but please correct me if I'm wrong:

Does this report state that the later arriving (composed of mainly one salt fish) spring component of the current AR run is not predominantly exhibiting Van Arsdale Eel River genetic markers?

Is it possible that this report supports that the AR in it's prealtered state, supported a run of fish in the same temporal window that corresponds with the later arriving predominantly one salt, 'blueback' component that is characterisitic of the VA/Eel River fish, and that you're possibly jumping to conclusions here that the fish currently present in the later portion of the current run progression are indeed purely progeny of the native AR fish as opposed to the progeny of hatchery products?



full link again
kiene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5244&page=5



Re: Urgent!--Keep off American River spawning riffles


yes a very nice discussion.. a constant flow of 2 k would do wonders for the river.. i fish ladder would be even better..

[DAVID95670]

I got a few on soft hackles.

[Jeff F]

I disagree with the statement that these "spring-run" fish look much different than the Eel River bluebacks. Having spent years in Sac and Eureka, I've caught many of said fish in each river. Personally, I think the AR fish look very similar to the fish I caught in the Eel in April/May. That being said, they are DEFINITELY different than the half-pounders the AR gets in the fall. As shown in Andy's picture, these fish display zero rainbow coloration and hardly any body spots. Very easy to tell when you get one to hand. So, no matter what the history, these fish keep returning. And that is cool........

Thanks for the post 26c3.

~Jeff

[Jeff C.]

AR Blue Back? Caught this in April a few years ago.

[jbird]

Hey Mark. Your picture of the chrome with sea lice on the adipose is "holy grail" material. Break that down... Chrome. Sea Lice. Adipose. Those three words are sweet by themselves. You got em all together in a photo! ;) Well done!

[Jed Peters]

AR Blue Back? Caught this in April a few years ago.

Jeff C, your fish looks eerily similar to this one....definitely looks like the same run/type of fish.

[Jeff F]

AR Blue Back? Caught this in April a few years ago.

I don't think so, Jeffrey. That looks like those footballs we used to catch in the summer. Remember those? (see pic below)

The "blueback" in Andy's picture, again.....complete chromer, bullethead, no rainbow coloration and very little spotting. And I don't think they stick around long enough to start changing color. But who knows......

[Mark Kranhold]

Thanks Jay! I would have to agree Jeff F, the spring fish I call blue backs are always dime bright and wild with that color separation of bluish back to chrome body and full of piss and vinegar!

8740

[winxp_man]

I think these fish might be a true HP run of the Eel strain fish..... Reason is simple. Its the same looking HP's I caught on the Van Duzen and Eel. Dark back, bright chrome sides they look like little silver bullets.

This pic is from a video I tried to shoot and couldn't get a good side shot. But it did has a dark back like in the first post.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/winxp_man/72C1A5EC-B27A-4E01-838B-F7F0D084D80A_zpsvhy3kr66.png (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/winxp_man/media/72C1A5EC-B27A-4E01-838B-F7F0D084D80A_zpsvhy3kr66.png.html)

[STEELIES/26c3]

There's a difference between the chrome smolts and the bluebacks both on the American and on the Eel. SFE, and VD rivers.
On the Eel River system there are no hatchery fish so ALL of the small trout are chromers. They may or may not be blue backs.
That fish in the photo doesn't appear to be a blueback.

In the American right now, the most likely possibilities are:

1) This year's steelhead smolt plants (10-14" chrome or close and clipped)

2) Last year's hatchery planters or naturally-spawned yearling steelhead which have yet to outmigrate (like Jeff's and Jed's beautiful but not salt-chrome fish in the photos). These fish go 18"-24"

3) Folsom or Natoma rainbow trout which have come through the spillway at Natoma. (These are the 'Folsom Footballs' and are rarely caught downriver from Sailor Bar since they originate from way upriver. They genetically are derived from the broodstock trout in the western section of Nimbus Hatchery (as most of you know... the hatchery is divided in to the mitigation section which rears salmon and steelhead and the trout plant section which rears catchable trout for planting in urban, rural and mountain lakes and streams. It should be noted that the 'Folsom Football' shape of these trout is likely not a genetic phenotype but rather an environment-induced characteristic because of the fishes' piscivorous diet of Wagasaki (pond smelt introduced to Folsom and Natoma).

4) An escapee trout that got accidentally flushed from the hatchery or from the spillway and feeling adventurous... decided to leave the vicinity and take up residence downriver so it could say, "Hi there!!!" to Mark or Andy or Jeff.

5) Blueback steelhead (entering the river as early as mid February but most prolific from March to late April). Range in size from 14"- 24" and even as large as 8 lbs. Herein lies the great mystery.... Are they remnant of the central valley steelhead? I think the reason that has been adopted as a likelihood is because of how hard these lil guys fight. I have personally caught a 16" blueback which during the grab and initial run, I had estimated to be 4-6 lbs. We assume a native, summer run steelhead (like the once endemic but now-extant American River central valley steelies) would fight in a similar fashion. I fished for several years with a man who has fished the AR since 1948 and he's told me about the fishing pre-dam and how he used to go up to Rainbow Bridge and catch (4-6#) summer steelies all day long. Those days and those fish are long gone...

I'm sure some of the POST-dam returnees managed to breed and their offspring managed to breed with each other in successive years. Unfortunately, I'm fairly certain that these same fish and their subsequent offspring ALSO interbred with the MANY and in some cases, far more prolific introduced strains (like the Washougal, Eel, Russian, Mad river fish all of which were introduced experimentally in the 1960's 1970's and 1980's).

Add to that all of the interbreeding candidate trout which have escaped from the hatchery and from Natoma and Folsom Lakes into the river, the loss of viable habitat, the increase of predators (humans included) and the southerly siphoning of our watershed over the years and you soon see how a truly pure strain of indigenous central valley steelhead is pretty impossible.

I believe that the early and larger bluebacks which come up in March and spawn account for the greatest percentage of offspring. There is obviously enough of a population such that we do in fact see a return of bluebacks each year. Sadly, I cannot help but believe that their numbers are dwindling and that the success of these later/smaller fish will be increasingly challenged by the perils of water mismanagement

I have caught many AR bluebacks over the years but not a ton of them as I tend to shift my attention to black bass and stripers at around the time one would have the best chance at catching them on the AR. I'd love to know more about them. I'm going to try and contact Weldon E. Jones and pick his brain. I'll post the results when I do.

6) A stray from the Mokelumne, Coleman, Sacramento, Feather, or other such river.

7) a downrunner Eel River winter run fish. Unlikely in such low water as most either died or are on their way to the delta to do so.

The American River is kind of like America... a huge, mixed-up melting pot, somewhat managed, somewhat mismanaged, yet each of its inhabitants trying to survive amid the chaos~;)

Long live us all

8742

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Very nice fish..........

I fished this river starting in the 1960s with night crawlers on a fiberglass spinning rod I made myself with help from Edwoldt's Rod & Reel Repair on Del Paso Blvd.

I have so many fond memories of fishing with old friends, catching fish and getting skunked too.

I love this river.....

If you fished it right now as if you were trout fishing a stream you would probably catch fish.

.

[steel2theReel]

I agree that it's a melting pot.

Fisheries (mis)management has been going on for 60 years + in one guise or another and it seems like now every new administrator has their own 'plan' to save the species. What ever happened to long range planning?
I can remember when we even had a Washougal strain summer run that was in the Lower in July-August. Another planned failure. It was defunded and over 1,500 fish were slaughtered in the hatchery during one year on the 70's (as I recall in between senior moments).

The same mismanagement now has decimated the O MyKiss strain on the Yuba. Anyone notice that we now catch strays from the Feather but rarely a real steelhead of any size on the Yuba? We are selectively breeding out native stocks because of inept fish and water management.

Pretty soon we'll be conversing about the Mud Puppy run on the American instead.....

[Mark Kranhold]

[QUOTE=steel2theReel;144969]
I can remember when we even had a Washougal strain summer run that was in the Lower in July-August.

I hope and still think we may still have some Washougal strain in the American? I have caught several fish like this in July-August over the past years. Not sure what the Washougal strain looks like but these fish were all wild and feistier than hell!
Washougal??

8744

[STEELIES/26c3]

Mark, beautiful trout but not Washougal.

Here's a link to photos from the actual river:

https://www.google.com/search?q=washougal+steel;head&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=2M&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=rd8hU4GJDaWC2wXjtoDgCA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1536&bih=738

[ycflyfisher]

American steelhead exhibit Eel River genetic markers. If you reread some of Dennis’ postings (or any of the other numerous conversations we’ve had on this forum in the past) on the subject, you’ll find that he states that and that American steelhead are not part of the CV steelhead ESU for that very reason.

They’re not native, nor have they any connection with the native stock.

For there to be any vestige of the native AR steelhead remaining, they’d need to have either temporal or spatial separation from the hatchery VA fish on the American and most importantly, they’d need to have maintained that separation for every single season since the dams were built until now. With only a short stub of the mainstem and no viable tribs left as habitat on the AR, there’s no way they have ever had spatial separation. When you also consider that the Eel and the fish in other watersheds where Eel fish have been transplanted and dominate the genetic makeup of the fish present (Eel, AR, Mad and the Moke) exhibit a strong component of predominantly smaller, 1 salt fish, that arrive into the spring like you see on the American, they don’t have temporal separation either from the hatchery run either.

What you see in the spring on the AR is exactly what you see in the spring everywhere else there’s Eel strain fish. The prevalent LH phenotype obviously changes going into the spring from the bigger multisalt fish of the winter, and some anglers romantically conclude that the spring fish are distinctly different than the hatchery strain (and could be native), while overlooking the fact that the 1 salt, spring “bluebacks” are a composition of the Eel/VA hatchery fishes temporal run progression.

The CA Hatchery Review actually recommends ditching the current O. Mykiss stocking program on the AR and recommends restarting with a stock that is more similar to the stocks listed under the CV steelhead ESU.

Also the Feather/Yuba situation is not a recent development and has been occurring for decades. It used to be much worse back when the Feather O. Mykiss releases happened in Nov rather than Feb. I agree that it is still problematic though.

I’m also inclined to believe that there’s nothing significant remaining of the Skamania/ Washougal element once introduced into the AR. We do have a population of Skamania steelhead on one watershed here in CA where they gained a foothold after stocking was discontinued. Like the Eel fish in the AR, they’re not part of the ESU for their watershed. Skamania steelhead are huge multi-salt fish. The smallest Skamania steelhead I’ve ever caught in CA was about 26-27”.

[Jeff F]

I think I can sum this up......

Whatever they are, or wherever they come from, I think we're all happy they are there, and keep coming back.

~J

[STEELIES/26c3]

American steelhead exhibit Eel River genetic markers. If you reread some of Dennis’ postings (or any of the other numerous conversations we’ve had on this forum in the past) on the subject, you’ll find that he states that and that American steelhead are not part of the CV steelhead ESU for that very reason.

They’re not native, nor have they any connection with the native stock.

For there to be any vestige of the native AR steelhead remaining, they’d need to have either temporal or spatial separation from the hatchery VA fish on the American and most importantly, they’d need to have maintained that separation for every single season since the dams were built until now. With only a short stub of the mainstem and no viable tribs left as habitat on the AR, there’s no way they have ever had spatial separation. When you also consider that the Eel and the fish in other watersheds where Eel fish have been transplanted and dominate the genetic makeup of the fish present (Eel, AR, Mad and the Moke) exhibit a strong component of predominantly smaller, 1 salt fish, that arrive into the spring like you see on the American, they don’t have temporal separation either from the hatchery run either.

What you see in the spring on the AR is exactly what you see in the spring everywhere else there’s Eel strain fish. The prevalent LH phenotype obviously changes going into the spring from the bigger multisalt fish of the winter, and some anglers romantically conclude that the spring fish are distinctly different than the hatchery strain (and could be native), while overlooking the fact that the 1 salt, spring “bluebacks” are a composition of the Eel/VA hatchery fishes temporal run progression.

The CA Hatchery Review actually recommends ditching the current O. Mykiss stocking program on the AR and recommends restarting with a stock that is more similar to the stocks listed under the CV steelhead ESU.

Also the Feather/Yuba situation is not a recent development and has been occurring for decades. It used to be much worse back when the Feather O. Mykiss releases happened in Nov rather than Feb. I agree that it is still problematic though.

I’m also inclined to believe that there’s nothing significant remaining of the Skamania/ Washougal element once introduced into the AR. We do have a population of Skamania steelhead on one watershed here in CA where they gained a foothold after stocking was discontinued. Like the Eel fish in the AR, they’re not part of the ESU for their watershed. Skamania steelhead are huge multi-salt fish. The smallest Skamania steelhead I’ve ever caught in CA was about 26-27”.










Cannot disagree with any of that...

and ultimately, as Jeff indicated... on our precious, lil urban fishery, I care mostly that there are healthy runs of O. M. (x,y,z,a,b,c,d) to catch.

Save the wild restoration efforts for watersheds which actually have viable stocks of native steelhead.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Went out with Andy today on the Lower American. River.

3 pm till 7 pm fishing from River Bend Park (Goethe) down to Watt Ave.

Andy landed a 15 incher that was wild on his magnum caddis soft hackle.

I hooked one that made one really big jump and then got off......over 20 inches and thick. Would have loved to landed it.

I caught 3 little foot long jobs too.

I saw a fish that looked to be over 5 pounds eating caddis around 6 pm.

We ran into some customers in our three different locations.........we talked with Jeff C too.

__________________________________________________ ______________________

Put your trout tackle in your vehicle with caddis wets and dries. You can fish till 7:30 pm.

I would fish any riffle in the evening from River Bend down to River Park.

Early and late is good with this low water and warm weather.

Caddis were coming off tonight with fish eating them on top.

.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Most valley rivers should have caddis activity in the PM now with trout and small steelhead eating them.

[Jeff C.]

Hey Bill! It was great to see you out on the water. Andy wanted me to cross over to the island to heckle you from the peanut gallery but I went home. With the full moon, it think the fishing is better later in the day.

[Mark Kranhold]

Good for you Bill, sounds like it was a great way to end your day!

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

It is so nice out on the river, especially in the evenings.

It is like a big trout stream now.

Get down there with your trout outfit and some caddis dries in the evening,

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

You can fish till around 7:30 pm now.

Put a single hand trout rod in your vehicle with a floating line, 9' 4x leader and some #12 caddis dries and wets.

That last hour or so is magic.

Half-pounders are feeding on caddis.


There are some big fish in there too.......like 3 to 6 pounds......a few.

.

[steel2theReel]

I hope and still think we may still have some Washougal strain in the American? I have caught several fish like this in July-August over the past years. Not sure what the Washougal strain looks like but these fish were all wild and feistier than hell!
Washougal??

Hi, Mark:

Sorry to get back so late. Been fishing and caught a few Bluebacks.
What you are depicting is probably O Mykiss and other strains just looking at it (not a good judgement without scale samples, of course to the well-heeled in the group ;) ).

Washougals, in contrast, are very snaky, with long slender, powerful bodies. The strain was introduced in the American and abandoned in the late 70s-80s but I can't get them off my mind.

Imagineback in 1980 in 100+ weather hooking 25-30" steelies? It was work, and I used to figure a fish every 8 hours; but what a fish.

I still make an annual pilgrimage to that part of the world to swing for these babies. Floating lines, skaters and POW!

Regards,
Grant

[matt johnson]

[QUOTE=steel2theReel;145052]I hope and still think we may still have some Washougal strain in the American? I have caught several fish like this in July-August over the past years. Not sure what the Washougal strain looks like but these fish were all wild and feistier than hell!
Washougal??

Mark, awesome wild CV steelhead! The Lassen Foothill tribs of the Sacramento River still get a few fall-entry wild steelhead. My bet is that those July-August fish you run into now and then on the American are not remnant Washougals, but are instead fish that have dipped into the American (likely seeking thermal refugia) on their way up the Sac, much like Idaho bound fish do on the Deschutes. Matt

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

A friend of mine does not fly fish but pulls plugs with his drift boat early in the AM all summer long.

He says in mid-summer they will get some super bright 8 pounders right in those deep fast runs with the fresh summer run salmon.