Swinging for Steelhead--does the fly matter?

[Jed Peters]

I had this conversation with a buddy last night, and I'm wondering--does the fly really matter?

(NOTE that we are not talking about trout.)

Everyone has the pretty pattern that they love to go-to or to tie. And I get that. I'm much the same way.

But I'm wondering, does the PATTERN of the fly matter at all?

I'm of the opinion that it DOES NOT matter....but I'm a relative newbie in the great world of swinging for steelhead, only doing it for 3 years now.

In my (limited) experience, it's more about presentation, color, movement, size, weight, and profile than "looks" on the bench.

It's my understanding that Ed Ward himself (the guru of skagit) fishes mo more than a worm weight and strips of different color bunny fur...

What say you?

[Norman B]

I have kept a journal for over 30 years, and the patterns always depend on flows, seasons, and weather.
I have also done some experimentation in the river. I would catch a few steelhead on a favorite fly, then change the fly to see what happens, and almost always proved that the fly was important.

[Jake O]

Of course it matters. Have you ever caught a fish on a brown fly in a muddy river? Clarity (which always plays a big role in steelhead fishing due to the best time being right as the rvier drops) always dictates color. Also, the style of fly e.g. articulated v. non-articulated, dictates things such as movement etc. I would assume that the size of a fly (as long as we are talking about within normal sizes) doesnt matter as much as it does with trout, but deffinately i would think the style of fly as well as, and color, play a huge role in swinging.

[Darian]

Interesting question. If it refers to whether a specific pattern/name matters, then I don't think that it actually does much matter. Of course, all of the other elements mentioned so far do matter and they make up the fly. I forget which very early issue of Salmon/Trout/Steelheader I read this in but a northwest Steelheader was reported to've said, just pick a fly and go fishing (paraphrased).

Good fishing.... :cool:

[Jed Peters]

Interesting question. If it refers to whether a specific pattern/name matters, then I don't think that it actually does much matter. Of course, all of the other elements mentioned so far do matter and they make up the fly. I forget which very early issue of Salmon/Trout/Steelheader I read this in but a northwest Steelheader was reported to've said, just pick a fly and go fishing (paraphrased).

Good fishing.... :cool:

Precisely what I was getting at....

"pattern and name"--i.e. an intruder vs some other weighted type of similar fly that looks the same in the water, etc.

Thanks for "getting it" Darian.

[Dan LeCount]

the answer you are looking for is....








sometimes

[JasonB]

Damn straight it matters! I sometimes spend over an hour or so on a single fly, the only thing keeping me chained to the vise being that assurance of the payback that comes from getting just the right profile and movement, or perfect blend of color and hint of sparkle. Perhaps even if it doesn't matter, I just like tying pretty bugs. Either way, I'll keep working on my tying skills and I'll still enjoy myself that much more having a full box of dozens of different colorful creations for all types of water/weather conditions, barometric pressure, tidal stage, economic trends, and overall presence (or lack thereof) of some serious MOJO... perhaps even depending on what I had for breakfast that morning. I've got all bases covered!

Oh wait, I suppose you meant does the fly matter to the steelhead...
never mind, carry on, disregard :confused:
JB

[Dustin Rhodes]

I really like the info in this thread so far! What other thing that is my opinion is the same fly fished at different water depth or speed will also make the fish act different. So just have a variation of colors and type and one will get you that chrome fish :D

[Rick J]

Take a look at this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8p6V9EN1jo

[Darian]

JB,.... Ya got me on that one. I agree, the pattern is absolutely paramount at the vise when you're tying for a customer or just for self satisfaction. :)

When I was actively fishing Salmon/Steelhead, I carried several boxes of flies filled with various sizes of flies and patterns but only used around a half dozen patterns consistently. The flies I used were flies/patterns I had confidence in.

I, too, like this thread. :cool:

[ycflyfisher]

Fishing for steelhead is just like fishing for any other species that are willingly ingesting the fly in that the fish follow feeding and reactive behavior that is driven totally by instinct and environmental conditions. Their instincts are totally driven by and geared towards survival, and their behavior and the environmental conditions that govern said behavior both follows patterns that are often predictable.

The notion that pattern doesn’t matter (IF the amount of fish you’re catching matters to you) flies in the face of angling wisdom and critical thinking IMO.

For instance, on the Klamath when the Iso population in the lower and mid river begins to pop and the fall fish are up migrating through significant numbers of Isos movement, floatillas of emerging Isos, and duns getting blown onto the surface, do you really believe some dude fishing a popsicle (all other factors and methods being equal) is going to have the same success as someone that is paying attention to detail and fishing Iso sized Hiltons or herl bodied traditional patterns that actually resemble Isos?

Do you think that an angler tossing a Rea’s Rusty or Olive Muddler is going to have the same success as an angler tossing a Babine Special when fishing a rif below a tailout where dozens of Chinooks are actively tearing up the substrate and digging redds? On a typical spring day when the river is full of free swimming YOY who are you betting on here? Do the odds not shift to the angler tossing the Muddler?

If you’re fishing the upper T in late Nov- early Dec and you’re seeing lots of hatching ephemerella (even if the hatch isn’t strong enough to put the fish up on the emergers/duns) do you think you’re going to have as more success swinging an Ugly Bug or PT nymph?

Would you expect someone swinging a Winter’s Hope to do as well as someone swinging a sac fry pattern during the first heavy storm of the winter that dumps a lot of sediment over incubating substrate and causes a massive allevin emergence before they’re zipped up?

I’ve seen KMP summer fish so locked in and selective to both ephemerella and caddis hatches that they would not only ignore anything besides patterns that mimic those inverts but would only take patterns that mimicked specific life stages of those inverts.

Ed Ward may be a casting guru, but if it’s true that he only fishes variations of one pattern, he’s no steelhead guru.

I think it’s obviously true that anadromous O. Mykiss are generally more aggressive and thus less selective than are O. Mykiss that follow completely riverine life histories, but they do follow predictable patterns of behavior which includes being selective or at the very least preferential to the biomass of biota that they’re seeing being the dominant components of the drift.

The anglers who pay attention to detail and adjust their approach based on conditions to exploit all factors that they are observing that can influence steelhead behavior, are always going to outfish the anglers who hack and cast all season long with a handful of pet patterns (because they believe that pattern doesn’t matter) over a long enough timeline.

Ultimately I think your question is relative to what you envision as success as a steelhead angler. If you’re one of those romantic types that believes that steelhead should be the fish of a 1000 casts and that steelhead are the emblematic bastions of all things good about all things wild and are like aquatic sacred cows and should only be pursued with a myriad of self-imposed limitations, I’d agree pattern probably doesn’t matter. You’ll catch a few fish to a few dozen fish a year and probably be happy with that.

If your goal is to be high rod on the river as many days as possible during the season, subscribing to the notion that pattern doesn’t matter and limiting yourself to fishing one pattern or a few patterns is akin to being a repair contractor without a truck full of tools because you own a Leatherman. The Leatherman might serve as a serviceable tool for all your requirements, but it’s rarely going to be the ideal tool. And the few to a few dozen fish you’re able to catch likely isn’t going to lead to many days where you felt like you were high rod on the river.

[Rick J]

lots of interesting stuff in yc's post above but much is site or event specific which is good to keep in mind. But if you are talking winter steelheading on typical west coast rivers in CA, OR and WA then I think pattern is a bit less important. Fishing the Eel, Tillamook rivers and rivers in the OP color can matter as discussed in previous posts and in the link I clipped depending on water clarity and light conditions but at least for typical swinging, you will typically do well with bugs that impart a lot of movement (marabou, intruder styles) in colors to match water and daylight conditions

[donkeyhunter007]

I select fly depending on water visibility, light conditions and sometimes available food source...............I am not sure if this makes a difference.............Some people fish the same fly all day.....I do believe that changing flies can produce action. If I fish a natural color through a run without a grab I will go back through with something bright the second time through or vise versa, start bright change to natural. This seems to get response if fish are present. Anyone else have similar experience?

[Mark Kranhold]

Take a look at this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8p6V9EN1jo
Couldn't agree more with Tom's thought on this video! On a bright day with clear water I wouldn't rule out naturals either! A good sculpin or baitfish pattern is always good to have in your box. This was a American winter fish last year that freight trained my sculpin pattern!
8224

[Rick J]

I love natural color bugs - I have a lot of olives and browns that I will fish under clear water conditions.

Another thought about patterns, I have had good success when I get a swirl or tug to move back upstream and change patterns - often as not the fish comes back if he did not feel the barb on the first go around

[Mark Kranhold]

I hear you there Rick! If I get a pluck or grab with no hook up I will usually go smaller in a different color and swing through the exact same spot and 80% of the time they will come back for it. But like you said if they got stung .. No chance!

[steel2theReel]

I hear you there Rick! If I get a pluck or grab with no hook up I will usually go smaller in a different color and swing through the exact same spot and 80% of the time they will come back for it. But like you said if they got stung .. No chance!

The net is, whether the fly matters to us is irrelevant; if it matters to the fish it will do the job!

[Darian]

OK,.... I'm finding the first part of the following quote a bit confusing. Seems to conflict with last part:

"The net is, whether the fly matters to us is irrelevant; if it matters to the fish it will do the job!"

Seems to me that if a fly matters to the fish and will do the job, it's important to us to know which fly that is; exact representation or not. So, I'm sure it matters to us and is not irrelevant.

[winxp_man]

I will say this sometimes its just weird on the rivers this year. I have been catching most of my fish on black egg sucking bunny leeches.

I have been going out for 2 1/2 weeks so far.

[JasonB]

Ok, I'll add my 2 cents. While I am by no means an expert when it comes to steelhead, more like novice on a good day, I will say that I do feel that there are times where size and color can both be pretty damn important. I know this runs contrary to what many think, but I had a major educational experience this fall in Alaska that really impressed upon me how at times size and/or color can dramatically alter the response. I had the good fortune of fishing some very clear water to a pool with several very fresh steelhead holding. It was interesting to watch them responding to my various offerings, including alterations in presentation. I "only" ended up catching one that morning but it was fascinating to watch and play with these curious fish.
One other experience on the same trip, although this was with silver salmon, was very eye opening to both my father (who has been fishing those streams for nearly 30 years) and I: We had been really tying into some fresh hot silvers for a 2 days following a minor blowout of streams. The action had be pretty much as intense as my father had ever experienced for both days, but the 3rd day started getting tougher and tougher. While we were still getting fresh fish pushing through, it was becoming clearer and clearer and for the most part they just were not as eager to bite. We started dropping size and fishing more and more sparse patterns, and it was clearly working. Before long we were not tying on anything larger than a size 10, and a sparse size 10 at that. Long and the short, we had a phenomenal afternoon other than we kept loosing fish due to having a hard time getting a solid hook set on those big silvers with such small hooks. Talking to a lot of other anglers that day, most said they had not had much luck at all; looking at the flies and lures they were using the reason was clear.
JB

[lake flyer]

In my (limited) experience, it's more about presentation, color, movement, size, weight, and profile than "looks" on the bench.



I would say that all these things are what you need to know to design a specific pattern. So I am guessing that pattern does matter. I hope that makes sense.