Frameless Pontoons - Any favorites out there?

[SFMike]

I've been wanting to get a one-man frameless pontoon boat mostly for drifting rivers here in California, but that I could also take with me to Oregon, Washington or BC. The more I look into them, the more options there are. Trying to keep the price at $1000 or less, lightweight and packable for travel and storage, I'm looking at the following three boats:

- Creek Company ODC Voyager ($400 on sale now)
- NFO Outlaw Renegade ($1000)
- Outcast Fish Cat Scout ($650)

Does anyone have experience with a few of these boats that they could share with me?

Thanks,
Mike

[golfish]

I got an Outcast Commander last year and love it. If you're swinging flies and use it mostly for transportation I highly recommend it. For swinging or nymphing the ability to just pull over, standup and start fishing is pretty nice. I've done maybe a dozen drifts in it; Upper Klamath, Rogue (shady to dodge, dodge to touvelle), lower Yuba, a certain section of the Pit.

Deflated it fits perfectly in a big storage container I got from Costco (27gal?). I use a 15 dollar coleman air mattress pump and top off with a K100 in ~10 mins.

Haven't done any stillwater in it but if you do primarily I would think an open bow would be nicer. Also Outcast is coming out with the Stealth Pro which looks to be a larger Scout? Maybe like an NFO Rampage? Haven't seen good pictures of it yet.

Good-luck in your search, would be interested in what you end up with.

[Cutthroat]

I've had a Renegade for two seasons and love it. It is 9' long and 28 pounds. I'm a stillwater fisherman. I use it a lot in the Eastern Sierras and it is very easy to carry to the shore of lakes that have no boat launch. It has just been a great watercraft...maneuverable, tough and comfortable. I have checked out the other two pontoons you mentioned above, but they don't have the weight capacity (800 lbs.) of the Renegade. Another advantage of the Renegade that it has two large side bags. The Outcast Stealth Pro is a great looking pontoon, but it weighs 35 pounds (7 pounds more than the Renegade).

I guess my second choice of pontoon boats would be the Waterstrider kickboat, but it costs more than $1600. It's a little smaller and lighter than the Renegade, but I think it the fisherman sits a little lower in the in the craft and that it wouldn't be as nimble to row.

Just my two cents. Good luck on your choice.

[SFMike]

Cutthroat and Golfish,

Thanks a lot for the info. I definitely have looked at the Outcast Commander, but I wasn't sure what the advantages or disadvantages were to the boat shape or going with the pontoon/open bow style. A friend of mine has a watermaster and that's a great boat, but a bit more expensive. But if we're throwing the boats into the mix, there is also the NFO Assault ultra light that is supposed to only weigh 15 lbs (if I got that right).

I was mainly hoping to use mine to drift rivers, going from run to run looking for nice swinging water. Given that, would you guys say that a raft/boat shape would be better? I've never done any still water tubing, but that's not to say I won't sometime. Obviously a boat that can do it all would be great, but if one design is better for floating rivers, I guess that's the direction I'd steer in. I'm sort of thinking I couldn't go wrong with the Outcast Commander or the NFO Renegade. The Creek Voyager and the Fish Cat Scout are a bit smaller and might not be as good for river floating, but the Stealth Pro is supposed to be 9' long and about $1000. Not sure it's available yet...

Thanks again guys and if anyone else has thoughts, I'd love to hear them too.

Mike

[JAWallace]

I'll second the Renegade. I've drifted the American several times and it's great. I'd say you can take this boat comfortably up through Class III. Scadden rates them higher but Scadden is somewhat prone to exaggeration. One cool feature for the river is the foot bar. Once you find a place to stop, you just stand up and the boat swings around you and the foot bar rests against your legs. No need to anchor if you're not walking much--just shuffle the boat along with you.

Outcast builds great boats, no doubt, but Scadden designs are more advanced and user friendly IMO. I think for your use the Renegade is perfect. It will cost you just under $1000, but the resale is great and usually quick. I would choose that boat for you over the Assault. The closed bow is nice for stillwater but for moving water the pontoon/footbar setup is an advantage. Scadden's ultra light line is new and not yet proven. He claims the material is "heart valve material" but there are no skid plates so I'd want to see a year go by with some user reports first.

[markz]

Hi Mike,
I don't have experience with those types, but with tandem inflatable kayaks. There is an article in Calif Fly Fishing about kayaks/fly fishing in rivers. The one I have is an Aire Caracal. I bought it because it only weighed 35lbs, but cost $1000 new. They have the Tomcats which are cheaper-made in Asia but seem OK.

If you want to fly fish while drifting down a river the kayak is not for you. Just another thought.

Good Luck
MarkZ

[fishnbeatsworkin]

Outcast has a new "Stealth Pro" in the works. It's supposed to be coming on the market soon.

Here's a video link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbzVsbmNbOE

[JAWallace]

Direct copy of the Scadden Renegade, 7# heavier, but with some improved features like fewer cam straps and a greatly improved anchor system. Good to see Outcast coming out with frameless. I am a big fan of Scadden boats, but Outcast has much better distribution and they answer their phone when you need them. Defintely worth a look. It will probably go out $1200-$1300 with the same accessories. The additional weight is a bummer though. My Renegade is 35# fully laden with gear. Theirs will be closer to 45#.

[fishnbeatsworkin]

Direct copy of the Scadden Renegade ..... It will probably go out $1200-$1300 with the same accessories. T.

I saw on another site that is taking pre-orders the Stealth Pro is listed at $999, same as the Renegade. I don't know what accessories are included though. Scadden and Outcast are on the exhibitor list for the Pleasanton Fly Fishing show. I'm going to go compare the Renegade, Predator & Stealth pro side by side. i like the weight listed for the Predator but don't know the durability of the "heart valve material"

[JAWallace]

It's $999 for the base. It doesn't include the side bags or travel bag which is really nice. I assume it includes the seat. The seat, foot bar, oarlocks, look identical and probably are. Scadden also includes a pump but it's not worth much. I'm thinking $50 for the travel bag and $50-$75 for the sidebags, times 2, best case. Outcast tends to be proud of their accessories so it could be more. You'll have to pay sales tax with the Outcast too whereas Scadden you don't. I too am curious about the "heart valve material" and will look at it during ISE here. Scadden is a good designer and builder but I would not take his claims too seriously.

I will tell you this FWIW and having owned products from both. If I had to choose between two products, same price, same specs, same warranty, from Scadden and Outcast, I'd choose Outcast because of their dealer network and reputation. I would not pay much, if any, of a premium for it though as Scadden is very good too.

[SFMike]

Hey Mark,
Yeah, I've seen the inflatable kayaks popping up a bit more lately. I did an overnight float on a two man one with some friends about 10 years ago in BC and it worked great. It handled probably bigger rapids than we should have been taking it down just fine. We didn't fish from it, but for getting down the river, it was perfect.

So after my initial thoughts on the Voyager, Renegade or Fish Cat Scout, I ended up jumping on a good deal on a Watermaster Kodiak. I didn't put it on my initial list because they're a bit more than the other boats I mentioned. It's also the only one that I've actually used and my buddy that has one highly recommends it. Hopefully I'll get to test it out pretty soon and I'd still love to compare it to a Renegade, OSG Commander and the Stealth Pro at some point. Those seem to be the best looking boats right around a grand.

I'm still curious about the Voyager just because it was $400. But no one has chimed in on that. Anyway, thanks for all the replies and please keep any info coming - it's great to hear about all the other options.

Mike

[JAWallace]

SF Mike, I think you're going to be very pleased with your Watermaster. I don't speak from ownership experience, but knowing those who have or have had them. The only complaint that you ever hear is due to the lack of rocker in the bow they can be a bit slow both on moving and still water. Otherwise, great quality and features. You'll get a lot of use from it and will love riding and fishing in it.

For those who still haven't pulled the trigger on any floating device, Creek Company has a terrific sale on their ODC line now. You can get a good enough float tube for $125.

[markz]

Hi Mike,
One thing I like about the kayak is that on the lower American it can be a long paddle to takeout with very little current and head wind. The kayak is very good under those conditions and if you are only rowing or kicking-it's a bear.

I like the watermaster because you can fish and float at the same time and add an electric motor for lakes.

MarkZ

[JAWallace]

If you fish stillwater, the motor option is great. I've done it several times and other than lugging the battery and motor mount it's so nice. You reverse the head so the motor is pulling you backwards, set the speed super low, and steer with your fins. If you want to move, just crank it up and use the motor tiller handle.

I often fish the A with a kayak fisherman, and MarkZ has a good point. He can book downriver and I'm slower. More importantly he can go upstream and that's next to impossible with the pontoon unless you catch a back eddy or want to work really hard. Still, there's a lot going on with paddling and casting in a kayak, especially on moving water, and I can anchor when needed and that's touchy with a yak.

[tdrfishoot]

The Water Strider is another good option for drifting and fishing. Cool video on the site shows how it works and some guys using it on almost whitewater. Plus, you can stop, stand and fish just by putting your feet down.

http://www.waterstrider.com/

Tim

[leicafish]

Mike,

I've had a Renegade for about 2 years now and I am very happy with it. I have drifted and fished the lower sac and it worked fine although there is a lot going on to be drifting and fishing at the same time. You are probably better off using it for access. There is a cool video on the NFO website about using Scadden boats for drifting and accessing the Dechutes. I have also tagged along on some mild whitewater trips and the boat has performed really well. There is a stretch on Cache Creek that is class 2+ to 3 and I have also floated the East Fk Carson at high water which was class 2+. I left it out in some really hot sun and the oarlock started peeling away from the pontoon. I had some other minor issues also but NFO has generally been pretty good about returning my calls. I would still recommend it.

Gary