Shoulder pain

[Rossflyguy]

Anyone have any shoulder pain after one day of fishing? I'm only 30 and fish once a week. After every fishing day my should gets real sore. Today its the worse its been yet. Had to take some advil to stop the pain. Any recommendations or experience with this issue? I was thinking of practicing left handed to switch it up so my right shoulder isn't over used.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Try using your non-dominant (left?) hand to haul more (double haul) and use less power with the hand/arm you grip the rod with.

Many have gone to two-handed/Spey casting for this same reason but most are older than you.

If you come by the shop I am sure we can give you some coaching on your casting.

.

[Mark Kranhold]

Once a week is the problem! 4 days a week your muscle memory will kick in and you'll be good to go!:eek: Could it be related to a old sports injury? I'm starting to feel mine as age sets in.

[Loomis 1]

Get on youtube and find one of Lefty Kreh's casting videos. Unless you are casting through the boat and need to high stick, Lefty's style works for many situations. It takes most shoulder movement out of the equation.

I have chronic shoulder issues and it helps a lot.
Bill Siler

[Darian]

Three things you can do about shoulder pain.

1) Get it checked out by medical staff (to be sure it's not gonna get worse. IMO, 30 is too young to be experiencing that kind of condition without it being some injury from the past).

2) Get a casting lesson (if it's not a medical condition).

3) Switch to Spey casting (it's supposed to be easier on the joints than standard casting motions).

If you're unable to accept those suggestions, rest it for a while and see if that solves the problem. Nothing lost except time fishing.

[winxp_man]

I might suggest also some stretching before any casting.......

[Charlie S]

If you can get checked by an Orthopedist. A scan will determine if there is any damage to the joint and corrective action can be taken. Believe me, the results were definitely worth it to me.

[EricO]

I agree with Charlie, get it checked out. Now, if it never hurts otherwise, I'd suggest stretching beforehand like Aron said.

I used to play golf a lot, and was rarely sore. I went and hit a bucket of balls last week, and I was sore in multiple places
for a few days. So as a doctor (uh hem.....), I'd suggest fishing more. LOL.

EO

[aaron]

If you're not in shape that wouldn't be a surprise. Safe to get to get it checked but if its nothing then I'd suggest getting your shoulders, back, core in shape. I have a background in this stuff.

[joshfish]

Rossflyguy, I am a 34. I usually fish once a week also. Ocasionally I'll get a sore shoulder but not every time. I find it seems to happens if I fish a long day of indicator fishing. It's never been bad enough that I needed any medicine and it's not every time so I have not seen a doctor about it. Is yours sore every time? Does it change with the method of fishing your doing?

[trouterfan1]

I agree with getting it checked by a medical professional. Stretching a few times a week or daily is also beneficial. Ask your doctor about an OTC joint supplement like glucosamine/chondroitin. Also could it be a gear problem? Rod setups with heavy swing weights could wreak havoc on casting fatigue and soreness.

[Rossflyguy]

It's only when I do a day of nymphing, when I'm doing nothing but roll casting big setups and tight lining. I always double haul my roll cast to make it a little easier or water load it. It's only been doing this for the last few times I've been out. I haven't fished since june and have gone out the last few weeks. I was thinking it was because I haven't used that muscle since but the pain wasn't the same as working out a day before. I might need to go back to the gym instead of working on the casa. Also, I'm not out of shape but I'm not in "single guy" shape like I used to be LOL.

[Rossflyguy]

But I'm going to look into some casting videos or lessons. Never hurts to have some out of the box opinions and constructive criticism to possibly stop the pain if it persists.

[Frank Alessio]

There are some good exercises you can do at home with a large rubber band that helps...My right shoulder feels and sounds like rusty ball bearings rubbing together...One year I could not raise my arm... The exercises helped a ton....Hope this helps....

[Ralph]

A double haul on a roll cast puts a lot of strain on your rotator cuff if the elbow is held above the shoulder. Holding the elbow high is pretty natural when tight lining. Doing this repeatedly all day will certainly cause some pain. Keep the elbow relaxed and below the shoulder. Try mixing up your up and behind roll casts with some canted, off to the side roll casts to avoid repetitive stress.

For most people, hauling on a roll cast is counter productive because it moves the line and breaks the surface tension which is what creates much of the loading in the first place. If you have impeccable timing you can pull this off, but what most people gain from the haul is pretty much lost by the broken surface tension.

[Rossflyguy]

That would make sense. I got the timing down pretty good double hauling my roll cast. I only do it when I need distance in a roll cast. But you make a good point having the elbow high tight lining and roll casting with my elbow up high. I know I keep my elbow high. I'll try changing that!

[Bruce Slightom]

For me the arm does not get tired from casting but from holding the rod and manipulating the line and mending. Try holding the line in your non casting hand.

[wineslob]

Hell, my whole body hurts after a day of fishing.

[amoeba]

The only time I ever had shoulder pain during fishing, was after a partial rotator cuff injury that I didn't notice; but that was from tennis the day before, not fishing. It eventually healed (5 yrs physical therapy, 3 steroid treatments, several MRI's, alot of co-payments, but no surgery), and never hurt again. Any chance it got hurt doing something else in your case?

How much pain do you have? If more than a 2-3 out of 10, you need to lay off. You shouldn't be experiencing pain from fishing, but if you are, you should not be fishing or doing anything to that shoulder in a way that causes pain. A doctor will probably recommend ice, rest, much larger doses of antiinflammitories than you are taking, and physical therapy exercises. He may allow you to fish or do other physical activities, as long as you don't raise your hand above shoulder height.

[Rossflyguy]

Yeah it hurt more like 6 out of 10. I'm going to go out again this weekend and see if i get the same outcome. This could be a deal breaker for my fly fishing future. I never had any upper body injuries. It doesnt hurt to lift my arm above my shoulder, it hurts when I flex my back. It feels like a pulled muscle if thats what a rotator cuff injury feels like.

[jersey]

slow down and let the rod do it's thing. elbow should be resting on the fence-post or something like that, per Lefty. Sorry, but its been a while watching his videos every time the casting stroke is slowed down, more control and greater distance is realized for me any way.

if you jacked you shoulder somehow, address it now, injuries and their associated pain truly suck.

[JAM]

I agree, you should seek a medical opinion. I really like Joan Wulff casting. Check youtube.
She demonstrates a side backcast(while tucking in your elbow to your waist) with overhead
forward cast. Very effortless. I highly recommend her dvd on casting. A classic that has
sold very, very well for good reason. No nonsense instruction. I must say Lefty's forward
casting is unlike most casters. Of course my example is for WF and Intermediate lines and
does not adddress holding the elbow high for nymphing. Anyway, hope it helps.

Fish On!

JM

[bigfly]

I tore my rotator cuff climbing "a decade or so ago".
Gave up climbing do to pain. (9.5)
Took a while, but I healed up.
Read later, pro NBL pitchers are advised to fly fish off-season.
High reps/low weight. (With proper casting technique.)
Get someone to check your style of casting for flaws that can lead to injury.
Fishing hard once a week will do it as well. Go casting during the "off season" to keep in shape.
I recommend a longer rod if the nymphing thing is hurting you.
If you hurt from casting, you are doing something wrong, or really need medical treatment.
Hope it works out soon....

Shouldn't need to haul on a roll cast. Maybe up-line instead. Better turnover, less work.
I met Joan a while back, what a woman!
Can cast like the big dogs, with a lot less effort. (Which is the goal.)

Jim

[Scott V]

Just get a cortisone shot. It worked miracles for my shoulder problems. They tried physical therapy but all that did was do more damage. I went from being in pain to my arm in a sling thanks to physical therapy.

[Rossflyguy]

Let me clarify where the pain is. It's not the joint where my arm and shoulder me, it's the muscle next to the shoulder blade. Not sure if that matters but all the info is great! My line is already up sized once and Fishing putah doesn't allow overhead casting so getting that extra distance with a roll cast is key. I'll take everyone's experiences and opinion into consideration. Thanks!

[JAM]

I know a c shot has greatly help in recovery for my relatives.

Have you considered using a longer rod and indicator fishing? The high elbow nymphing style combined with the tension
of the water can put stress on the shoulder. What you need to keep in mind, slow deliberate casting movements. Your
roll cast should be more of a cross the body flip. If you must roll cast, no jerky movements(w/o strong downward
strokes). Until you figure out what is going on physically, try keeping your casting in a smooth fluid motion.

Fish on!

JM

[amoeba]

Just get a cortisone shot. It worked miracles for my shoulder problems. They tried physical therapy but all that did was do more damage. I went from being in pain to my arm in a sling thanks to physical therapy.

Absolutely don't "just get cortisone". No doctor should ever give it to you just for the asking, and certainly not before at least 2 months of physical therapy. Injected steroids have significant risks - which increase with the amount of use (glaucoma, for example, you want that?). The typical allowance of cortisone injections in your lifetime is something like twice, maybe 3 times, anywhere in the body; the preferred number of times is never. Injected steroids are a second last resort to surgery; its not like taking asprin.

Of course, You will feel like superman the next day after an injection, but nothing has healed. You shouldn't even be exercising at all within a week of a cortisone injection. And, guess what you do after that? If you guessed "more physical therapy", you guessed right, but it won't be tennis. If you are lucky - the injection and PT will work together to heal you.

Anyway - back to OP's response about pain level (6/10), and feeling like its a pulled muscle, and the location?

- well - that indeed sounds more like a muscle tear than a ligament; but it's hard to know (there can be referred pain from other injured parts); and in any case rest and ice would still be recommended for now. A relatively high pain level is of some concern, see if it lessens within a week or so after injury.

[Ralph]

Absolutely don't "just get cortisone". Injected steroids have significant risks - which increase with the amount of use (glaucoma, for example, you want that?). The typical allowance of cortisone injections in your lifetime is something like twice, maybe 3 times.

With the number of cortisone injections I've had throughout my life, I should be riddled with glaucoma. Must have been all the pot I used to smoke that saved me.

[k9mark]

With the number of cortisone injections I've had throughout my life, I should be riddled with glaucoma. Must have been all the pot I used to smoke that saved me.

Well, you must not have smoked that much because you can still put a coherent sentence together, Ralph. ;) You should hear some of the losers I deal with. Their brain cells are gone.

[aaron]

While steroids are linked to glaucoma, the real danger is the repeated use of cortisone is clearly linked to long term damage and impaired healing of joints where the shots are given. PT is much more successful in avoiding long term damage. A one and done shot shouldn't cause any harm and will dull the pain effectively, but getting in the habit of getting a cortisone shot for every ache and pain is not a good idea. I've had a few to the ass for poison oak and they do work well, but wouldn't want to get in the habit of it.

[EricO]

While steroids are linked to glaucoma, the real danger is the repeated use of cortisone is clearly linked to long term damage and impaired healing of joints where the shots are given. PT is much more successful in avoiding long term damage. A one and done shot shouldn't cause any harm and will dull the pain effectively, but getting in the habit of getting a cortisone shot for every ache and pain is not a good idea. I've had a few to the ass for poison oak and they do work well, but wouldn't want to get in the habit of it.

Next time I get a bad case of poison oak, I'm going to get a cortisone shot. Suffering through that evil weed
is brutal.

EO

[aaron]

I pretty much have to beg for it. Prednisone does even worse things to my body!

[wineslob]

Next time I get a bad case of poison oak, I'm going to get a cortisone shot. Suffering through that evil weed
is brutal.

EO

One thing I've tried, and it helps, is taking a shower with the water as hot as you can stand it, and I mean HOT, and then rinse the affected area(s) for as long as possible. At first it burns like hell, then it kinda goes numb. It will stop the itching for quite awhile, reduce the swelling and duration. The thought is, the hot water overloads the nerves that essentially are causing the reaction and shuts them down. It has worked for me.

[Rossflyguy]

Yeah....that's not a great idea lol. Cold showers are better so your pours don't open up.

[ICE]

Hot water works!
Super hot water feels great! orgasmic! then the numbness kicks in wash while hot with Noxzema or some other kind of oil removing wash. Follow up with super cold water to close the pores and reinvigorate your life. Wash again with Noxzema. Wait and repeat as necessary. My proven method of oak oil abatement. And a lot less harsh than break / carburetor cleaner directly on the affected area (though it maybe not as effective). Hey Rossguy if you need a break throwing line lets hook up and throw some bait / jewelry on the beaches / rocks.

ICE

[jbird]

Yea. just get a series of cortizone shots and soak for 7 days in boiling water ;) Flyfishing forums are excellent for medical advice. This thread is proof in point :)

Oh yeah, scaulding water on poison oak is lovely. Almost makes me wanna get it again. My wife... "What on earth are you doing in there?!?" LOL

[wineslob]

Yeah....that's not a great idea lol. Cold showers are better so your pours don't open up.

Having dealt with Poison Oak my entire life, and I've had it bad enough that my Dermatologist took pictures of me because "the Honey Crusting was so good" has led me to understanding the oil that causes the reaction. All the bleach, cold water, solvents etc.. won't work. This is your immune system completely over-reacting to the presence of the urushiol. Even after washing it off your body (if you are allergic) your system will continue to "go nuts". This is why cortisone* works. Shutting down the nerves, by over-loading them also helps. I had never tried this before until this past spring. While it did not stop the reaction, it did shorten the duration and stopped the itching, for long periods of time.

From Wiki:



Cortisone suppresses the immune system, thus reducing inflammation and attendant pain and swelling at the site of the injury.


Sorry for the de-rail, now back to the shoulder.......................

[Rossflyguy]

Well luckily I'm immune to poison oak and never got it even though other prior who were with me did. I'll take your word.

[EricO]

Agreed on the hot water......Ahhhhhh!!!!....oohhhhhh......ahhhhhhhhh hhh........

It does relieve the itch for a good hour or so.

About three years ago I got it EIGHT times in the summer. Multiple Pit River trips. And I'm pretty sure
it was lurking somewhere in my garage on waders, vest or something. Not sure.

I've had it so many times that I think my cases are getting less and less. Sure seems like it after all the
bushwhacking I've done. Does anyone know if you can build up an immunity to poison oak?

EO

[Jeff F]

Does anyone know if you can build up an immunity to poison oak?
EO

Yes, Eric. Mix in a few poison oak leaves into your salad every night at dinner. Then steep some leaves into a poison oak tea and drink it before you go to bed. You may experience some minor mouth irritation and abdominal pain, but after a year of this treatment, you should be able to roll in the stuff and not be affected.

There's no poison oak on the Pit, is there? :D

[jbird]

Yes, Eric. Mix in a few poison oak leaves into your salad every night at dinner. Then steep some leaves into a poison oak tea and drink it before you go to bed. You may experience some minor mouth irritation and abdominal pain, but after a year of this treatment, you should be able to roll in the stuff and not be affected.

There's no poison oak on the Pit, is there? :D

Just stick it in your pipe :)

[briansII]

I've had it so many times that I think my cases are getting less and less. Sure seems like it after all the
bushwhacking I've done. Does anyone know if you can build up an immunity to poison oak?

EO

I've read that you can be MORE sensitive to poison oak after repeated exposure. There is hope though......

http://www.webmd.com/allergies/news/20061114/poison-ivy-allergy-scratched-out

Sorry for the continued hijack.

briansII

[EricO]

Interesting.

They'd have to pay me a lot of money to put poison oak under my tongue...a LOT.

Jeff,
You first. I'll follow a few weeks later after the results.

Jbird,
I may just toss some in the 'ol Hooka to see what transpires ;o)

EO

[Larry S]

Rossflyguy,
My advice for your shoulder pain is to rub poison oak on it. You might also want to look into switch/spey
casting. Jeff Putnam has some videos out with switch rod casting with a SH rod. Good luck.
Best,
Larry S

[Rossflyguy]

Rossflyguy,
My advice for your shoulder pain is to rub poison oak on it. You might also want to look into switch/spey
casting. Jeff Putnam has some videos out with switch rod casting with a SH rod. Good luck.
Best,
Larry S


I'm not sure it all has to do with my casting. I do refrigeration for a living and I'm sure lifting heavy parts/material in awkward places and positions sure did a toll on my back/shoulder. A lot of techs I know have slipped disks from doing what I'm doing. I'm just going to have to keep it easy on the shoulder.

[Mark Kranhold]

Did someone say Urushiol, I hate the $hit!!7903

[EricO]

Dannnng. I'd be at emergency pleading for the cortisone shot.

To quote Newman......."Vile weed!"

[Dan LeCount]

If the pain you are having isn't going away, above all, see a doctor. A small thing beyond that, that may help is try a lighter, longer rod. For what you're doing, I probably wouldn't use a spray pole(spey rod) Spey/switch rods are great for swinging streamers but have serious limitations nymphing because of the pure weight makes their hook setting very slow and they tend to be a lot less delicate with moderate to lighter tippets.(like you would use at Putah) Like a spey rod, with a light, long one hander, you end up having to reach much less and lift your arm much less then you would with a 9 footer, but they also can set the hook at very good speeds. Greys 11' 3wt has been my main stick, but there's a lot of other comparable brands. It doesn't fish like a 3wt, its really more like a 5 or even 6 wt. They also dry fly fish pretty decent as well. Anyways, something to maybe think about/try out.

[ICE]

I hear the new split Toxicodendron diversilobum cane spay rods by Itchy Oak Rods are super sensitive, light weight fast action rods that make you itch to go fish!

J. Ice

[Larry S]

Good one, ICE! Let's hope Rossflyguy gets relief from this problem. No one should be subjected to the torture
of not fishing!
Best,
Larry S