Trout fishing seasons

[Ralph]

Back in the day we had trout SEASONS for good reasons.

[k9mark]

Back in the day we had trout SEASONS for good reasons.
hero/Users/ralphcutter/Desktop/RMA_Criminal_2.jpg

Link isnt working

[Ralph]

Thanks Mark. Fixed the link.

[k9mark]

Man thats a big one.

[steveg137]

yep pretty grim Ralph. Shame is probably didn't have a clue it was an issue.

[bigfly]

That is about as sad a pic as I've seen.
This is what "show us your trout" can yield.
Ralph, how come you blanked the face?
(With added caption "I fish for spawners"....)
People should have to face the fact.
It's not all about us.
Give fish the love.

Jim

[Ralph]

That is about as sad a pic as I've seen.

Jim
It gets worse Jim. http://blog.frontrangeanglers.com/2013/10/ethics.html

[jbird]

I saw this on another forum. Thats a guide outfit believe it or not?!

[k9mark]

This same thing goes on at putah too.

[TyV]

Disgusting practice for sure...though did anyone else notice a major flaw in the story? He says it happened in the Spring, and the pics are of brown trout. I don't know of any spring spawning browns. Did I miss something?

[joshfish]

Fish-on, the guide chumming happened in the spring. The pics of spawning fish was a different time.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Maybe we need to close specific spawning areas at those critical times?

[Ralph]

Bill-
You ask the million dollar question. Why are rainbow trout waters such as the McCloud, Fall, Hat Creek, etc closed in the fall? These fish don't start spawning until late March. Why, of all places, are the Truckee and Little Truckee open through fall when water is at its lowest and browns are trying to spawn? California DFW regulations are a mish mash of incongruent rules that adhere to no coherent management policy.

In Montana which has arguably some of the finest fisheries and fisheries management in the world why do they shut down all fishing when stream temps rise above 73 degrees or below a certain flow? Because biology trumps politics.

When was the last time the Little Truckee was closed because it hit 20 cfs or the EF Walker was closed because its waters ran in the mid seventies? When I was on the Cal Trout board in the early 80's I asked exactly these questions and was shut down. The simple answer was that it might confuse people or effect license sales or local business revenue. BS. Our game management is so dumbed down as to be irrelevant.

[JasonB]

Sad situation for sure. It frustrates me to see how little care goes into fisheries management, or enforcement. I do have one small tidbit that I would differ on though. Perhaps it's just me, but I don't see a ton of trophy browns getting pulled off reds on the main Truckee during the fall. The little Truckee sure, but in general my impression has been that big browns are kind of few and far between for most anglers on the mainstem anytime of year. I say that becuase I certainly do enjoy fishing up on the Truckee in the fall and winter from time to time and have never felt that in any way I was shooting fish in a barrel or causing undue stress on spawning fish. In fact, I've come away humbled plenty, even during "prime times" when it's "fishing great".

As for some of the other stuff, I'm in agreement there. Things like having low flow, or high temp closures I would be in full favor of.
JB

[Ralph]

Jason, you make some very good points. The Big T below Boca generally has enough water and cover for fish to stay protected year round. A year round season probably makes sense down there. Upstream, near Glenshire or along 89 for example, it is ridiculously easy to identify redds and stake them out.

[JasonB]

Ralph, I can see the upper sections being more questionable for sure, especially with how low the flows are currently. The other part of the equation to all this of course is enforcement. I actually chased a couple off the LT this summer who were fishing with a giant jig with a nightcrawler dangling off it, and a friend of mine did the same to a trio of teenagers on the LT as well. Rules are one thing, people following them are a whole other...
JB

[Frank R. Pisciotta]

The age-old question is:

What are anglers' opinions about fishing below...at a respectable distance...active redds

I posit that most fly anglers would agree that it is unethical (although legal) to fish ON active redds.



Frank R. Pisciotta

[Mike O]

Then there are the guides from the OTHER local shop which regularly guide Putah...on the redds

[bigfly]

I didn't guide the Little T this year because it ran at 40 cfs mostly. My own ethics.
Thought it should have been closed at those flows, spawn or not. (The phrase "Fish in a barrel" comes to mind.)
You see fish with tattered lips, and nowhere to hide.
In my experience,(Several decades...) often people don't want to really learn how to fish, they just want a fish.
Consuming is taught at a young age....and ego is for life....
(I seem to be lucky here, I have mostly learning-enthused and respectful clients.)
When you only fish once or twice a year and still want a trophy, it leads guides and fishing public to do stuff like this.
Personally, I think you should lose your guide/fishing license if caught on the reds.
There was an un-permitted guide pummeling the reds last year on the LT. (Same guy hits Putah crk. reds I hear..)
He has been warned by locals up here, and will reap his rewards should he continue. (And I don't mean guide fees.)
The big fish pictures drive this behavior as well. I say catch them, and put them back, and walk on........
Do you really need to post to be fullfilled?
I know from watching stats that views go up when we post fish.
I put up a pic or two, but don't push piggys as the norm, because they aren't. Although it does happen.....

Get the Wardens # on your speed dial, and use it if you see this kind of behavior. Take pictures too.
Speak up, take action, public pressure can change laws....they hate bad PR.
The good news on the Truckee, is the upper river is closed all winter. Gives them a 6 month break from our pressure.
And the chance for quiet sex.....
I think they will eventually close the LT during winter, the snowmobile crowd hits it pretty hard, since it's open, but road isn't plowed......
Mostly, these are wild fish up here, let's treat them like gold, that we put back.

Jim

After some thought, I wanted to add....
I don't think our local guides would fish/guide over spawners.
Although, there is a gray area on this.
What if she's not on the reds yet. OK?
What if she's in a holding pool just below, resting, and guarding the reds. OK?
We each decide for our selves. Since the law doesn't act for us.....
But I can personally attest...
Sitting next to a bunch of spawning fish, year after year, watching a timeless ritual...has changed me.
Has given me respect for our local fishery.
And appreciation of other watersheds by extension.
They only need a little time off every year.....

[Dan LeCount]

I think one of the biggest things we can do is educate the public about the ethics through more mainstream channels. This was a huge boon for catch and release ethics, once the bass fishing shows started doing it, it became more mainstream. Although it still hasn't been as successful in trout fisheries as it has in warmwater fisheries, I think there's some room there for improvement and there are achievable goals if the right channels are used. Closing headwaters and low water fisheries during certain periods would be another partial solution, although def not a complete solution. I've seen rainbows spawn in August and browns in December, fish don't always follow calendars. Still it would probably be a step in the right direction for the health of the fishes. Another thing Ive always been a fan of, are fishing licenses that require the passing of a "test" much like a drivers license, with sections on regulations, ethics, proper fish handling/catch and release technique, etc like some European countries. I think that would probably be the greatest benefit to fishery health.

[steveg137]

Very good debate. Appreciate that many of you have been through this before and put effort into changing laws with no results. In the UK fishing for Browns anywhere is illegal outside of March 15th to Oct 1 and most rainbow trout fisheries close for winter.

Given the reputation of folks involved in this thread all I can say is I'd 100% support any petition for change.

I'll also boycott the "other" shop in Sac if they are associated with a guide involved in poor behavior.

[Darian]

Meaning no disrespect, the discussion in this thread isn't a debate (point/counterpoint, etc.). There's really no reason for disagreement.... :cool:

[steveg137]

No disrespect taken but there are quite a few points or questions up for debate, agreement or whatever one wants to call it. Such as what would sensible off-season rules look like, I didn't see a concensus on that unless I missed it.

[Rossflyguy]

Unfortunately BigFly there is a fly shop that allows its guides to fish spawners at Putah Creek. It's unfortunate but it's real. Many of us know who this is and it's a huge debate every year. They get called out every season and they wind up removing the pics of the "trophy" fish. Isn't there an ethics section when taking tests to be a guide? This time of year I always cringe because of all the sad pics and bad ethics stories of guides. It's just sad.

[bigfly]

Wasn't trying to start anything....just a rant that got away.
Sorry Ralph..

I don't know a guide that would act like that guy. (If he was a guide.)
There is no state test, but agree with Dan/Ross about a state test for guides, and fishermen as well........
(Although that would only sort out the illiterate.)
You can teach ethics, but you can't make them act ethically.
The main thought, if you see behavior like this, call it in.
It may be fishing season, but this is abuse of wildlife, and that is illegal.
Many people break the law without knowing it.
It's those that know better, and do it anyway that anger me.
None of us know much when we start out, we learn to handle fish over time.
I fell down and wrestled my first biggy on the T.
Would have had to fold him to get him in my net.
Now I carry a bigger net and know how to handle the fish.
We all have to practice a little first.

Ross's comment about pulling "trophy" pics, underlines my point about pictures/you tube driving our behavior.
Being a "fish hero" means treating fish well, not just getting photo proof.
For starters, just say no to fish on the bank photos......

Jim

[steveg137]

yes agree Jim.

[JasonB]

I say we blame Gopro! Seriously, I have no problem with fish pics taken quickly and with care. I enjoy looking back on pictures of memorable fish, and memorable times, and I love seeing tasteful pictures that allow me to live vicariously through others adventures. I think that the situation should dictate if a photo is reasonable or not. Being aware of the fish's state, and the conditions involved with the landing and the releasing process should all be in the forefront of our minds as we are admiring our catch. Had to cringe once as a fellow angler came walking a few hundred feet to me (with his trophy in the net), for photo assistance. Very nice guy, but clearly clueless about how to gently release a fish. I'm guessing that he probably killed that one. So while we're on a rant here about regulation changes, I would fully and completely be in favor of a "do not remove from the water" policy on C&R, or at least a "2 second rule". I know that this is becoming more common in some places, and I would imagine probably helps to keep some of the hero shots to a minimum and makes folks think a little bit more about how to handle and photo fish.
JB

[Dan LeCount]

Speaking of photos and such

After Doug and Gills successful filming of their clinic a week or 2 ago, since you could see where they were fishing, ever since that day that stretch has been crawling with guys. Really cracks me up. Like one day I drove by and there was 8 or 9 guys, all trying to fish that short stretch. People get crazy about big fish. Even though there's fish like that from Tahoe to 20 miles past Reno, they act like the only one left in the whole river is in that one hole. lol (btw this is by no means a critique of Doug and Gills filming of the river, just laughing at peoples reactions and their need to fish the same water after seeing someone catch a large fish in one particular area)

[Ralph]

Hear ya Dan. Or where Matt filmed catching his big one on the LT. So many now people tromp through that spot on a daily basis it is a given any eggs that do get laid are turned into orange paste.

[Rossflyguy]

Lol, sounds like putah. Large fish throughout the river but you see 8 guys Fishing a 50 yard stretch. Pretty sure nothing is there or going to bite.