Government shutdown closes fishing on public lands?

[Ben Kobrin]

Just going through some of the consequences of the shutdown and I ran across this:

http://www.doi.gov/shutdown/fy2014/upload/FWS-Fact-Sheet.pdf

This is the line that caught my attention: "All activities will be canceled on federal lands and public buildings until the government
reopens. This includes hunting and fishing activities on public lands."

-Ben

[Darian]

LOL!!!! Good luck with enforcing that one. ;) I'm certainly not going to cancel any of my activities on "public lands". All non-essential personnel are not at work. That most likely includes forestry types who aren't fighting fires....

[Mike O]

LOL!!!! Good luck with enforcing that one. ;) I'm certainly not going to cancel any of my activities on "public lands". All non-essential personnel are not at work. That most likely includes forestry types who aren't fighting fires....

but duck season, at the refuges, is about to start...

[dpentoney]

Duck season won't be starting at the Federal refuges.......

[Mike McKenzie]

Go to the BLM web site.... All BLM lands are "Closed" to public access. Whether or not they can enforce it is not the question ! It the very idea that we the public are being told that we cannot access our own land. Why can't we? Because we keep electing the same idiots to government over and over.. Goes back to the definition of insanity.. Doing the same thing again and again while expecting different results... Why you all put up with non functional Demopublicans and Republicrats is beyond me.. NEVER vote for an incumbent, they'll come back and bite you in A$$ every time! Just open your eyes and look at the shape the USofA is in...Downright shamefull!

Mike

[Frank Alessio]

Go to the BLM web site.... All BLM lands are "Closed" to public access. Whether or not they can enforce it is not the question ! It the very idea that we the public are being told that we cannot access our own land. Why can't we? Because we keep electing the same idiots to government over and over.. Goes back to the definition of insanity.. Doing the same thing again and again while expecting different results... Why you all put up with non functional Demopublicans and Republicrats is beyond me.. NEVER vote for an incumbent, they'll come back and bite you in A$$ every time! Just open your eyes and look at the shape the USofA is in...Downright shamefull!

Mike

Mike

So we Vote and then they send Our Votes to Spain to be counted.. How safe is that???Sorry If this is toooooo political but We sill have free speach Right????

Frank

[Jake O]

Never would i hesitate to go walk through a national forest (i.e. federal land) simply because the gov says we cant because they are "shut down." Our gov is no longer a beacon, it is simply a turd, that should be respected like a turd.

[wineslob]

Never would i hesitate to go walk through a national forest (i.e. federal land) simply because the gov says we cant because they are "shut down." Our gov is no longer a beacon, it is simply a turd, that should be respected like a turd.


This, plus you can't shine a turd.

[winxp_man]

This, plus you can't shine a turd.


You can wrap it with aluminum foil wrap and it will some what shine :D

[bigfly]

Looks like we are just a baby step away from closed highways (Fed), Marshall law, and total meltdown.
What happened to the "Land of the free"?
Maybe the American Empire has run it's course.
I'm going fishing.............Not on the "upper" Forest service section of the Truckee naturally,.......CA. water is still open, for now.

I heard that you can drive through Yosemite, but don't try to stop.......


Jim

[JasonB]

Well I've been biting my tongue as best I can on this one, as I'm sure others here have as well. Actually I'm pleasantly surprised and impressed that it hasn't gone completely sideways yet, as there are surely some pretty strong emotions on this. I do feel the need to put one small point across before it goes downhill; I'll try to keep this as politically neutral as can be given the circumstances. I think that we can probably all agree that the situation is almost comical if it wasn't so pathetic, and real! Perhaps there's a lesson in all of this for us though.

While we probably have some very different "villains", and place the blame on different shoulders; I would hope that we can all relate to some things. I think that it's not too much for folks of all political persuasion to see this as what it really is: partisan politics at its worst, where party ethics and ideals along with political power strategies have surpassed the good of the people on the day to day level. While there are strong opinions and arguments surrounding all issues at hand here, the fact remains that most of us would prefer that the two parties could find some way to reconcile and come to an agreement to keep things running smoothly (ok, maybe just "running" might be a start). Despite this we have kind of set ourselves up for these kinds of scenarios by electing the very types of officials who are more driven by their own goals to reach more powerful positions within their party and to up their own party's place of power in the long run. Never mind real human, economic, or environmental degradation; how might this little maneuver play out for our party and its interests?

*IF* you have similar frustrations, I would encourage you to:
a) communicate this to your representatives. Let them know how you think they could do better!
b) strongly consider how future candidates would act in similar situations, and try to support and encourage those who might act with a bit more empathy and consideration for the greater good before the good of their own political agenda (or that of their party). We've all got our ideals and our "issues" that pull strongly for our votes, but the reality is that none of that really does us a bit of good if we are constantly bogged down to the point of utter childish level gridlock.
c) contemplate ways in which we as individuals might do better at working with those who have some opposing political viewpoints. It's sad to see such disparaging remarks about our nation and it's government; when you think about the sheer potential even a handful of people have when they are able to agree on. We will never, ever agree on everything; but there is still a lot we can accomplish *if* we focus a lot more of our efforts and energies on the areas that we do agree on. I think this, like most good things in the world, will have to come "from the ground up"; individuals and communities first, state and federal governments second, and just perhaps...someday...globally last.

Pardon the rant, it's as close to politics as I care to get here; hopefully no one was seriously hurt or offended. If so, go fish more, it's good for the soul... and thankfully the fish don't seem to care about politics.
Tight lines everyone, keeping my fingers crossed that this soap opera has it's grand finally soon!
JB

[JasonB]

LOL!!!! Good luck with enforcing that one. ;) I'm certainly not going to cancel any of my activities on "public lands". All non-essential personnel are not at work. That most likely includes forestry types who aren't fighting fires....

I don't think I'd be so certain there. While that would be the logical conclusion to make, I think it's important to remember that the whole mess is about as far from a logical decision making process as can be. I won't even begin to contemplate, or gamble on just what ends up being "essential" ...
JB

[Ralph]

It matters not one whit what anyone's opinion is. Your congressperson has a better than 90% chance of getting re-elected regardless if they smoke crack, download child porn, make cap guns illegal, or shut down public lands to public access. Our system is broken and will have to be rebuilt from the ground up if the goal is to once again have a democratic republic. Answers? I have none.
Chance of your buffoon getting re-elected? http://www.opensecrets.org/bigpicture/reelect.php

[Don Powell]

It matters not one whit what anyone's opinion is. Your congressperson has a better than 90% chance of getting re-elected regardless if they smoke crack, download child porn, make cap guns illegal, or shut down public lands to public access. Our system is broken and will have to be rebuilt from the ground up if the goal is to once again have a democratic republic. Answers? I have none.
Chance of your buffoon getting re-elected? http://www.opensecrets.org/bigpicture/reelect.php

It has been a long time since 1776 when men were to be admired for standing up for what they believed...
The USA has suffered the consequences of being an "organized" entity for so long. So long in fact, that the the same element of human existence has wrecked our country just it wrecked so many countries and civilizations in the past... people learn how to take advantage of any system and promote a destructive decline. Like India, China and most of Europe, the longer humans inhabit the place, the worse the consequences...

I have no solution but I shall continue to seek out wild places for they offer me comfort in an ever declining world. Unfortunately, there are few- B.C. is the next victim... I don't know if I can return there to witness exactly what happened to the U.S. and northern California...

[Mike O]

http://llet-131-198.uab.es/recercapol/images/publications/Experiment%20corruption%20IPSA.pdf

[TTM]

Silliness and politicizing aside... I'm planning a trip likely to Tahoe national forest for some yuba or truckee fall fishing. Nobody to enforce = no reason to change my plans...?

[TTM]

Well shoot, one thing which definitely impacts me is I can't make a campsite reservation (recreation.gov). Looking at upper feather. Any of you fellas have ideas?

[Darian]

Mike O,.... Very interesting read. It's similar to a paper I read while in college that helped us to analyze a presidential election in the late 1950's.

http://llet-131-198.uab.es/recercapo...ion%20IPSA.pdf

I have one for you. Have you read any of the book, Che'?? It's a story of Che' Guevarra who once believed that in order to cause a revolution in any country, you only need control 10% of the population at any given time. This is possible, he believed, as only 10% of the people cared who governed them. They just wanted to live out their lives and be left alone by government (sound familiar??). of course, there was much more to the story and theory but I'm paraphrasing/summarizing a bunch to make the point.

Thanks for sharing that piece.... :cool:

[Darian]

As your resident cynic, I thought I'd mention that you can bring up and take a look at Form 700, Disclosure Statements for state and local officials on the California Fair Political Practices Commission (FPPC). Follow the link to FPPC's webpage. About half way down the page is a box containing a link to the Form 700 index. Enter the name of the politician to display the forms and attachments:

http://www.fppc.ca.gov/?id=500

This should give you some idea of how much money elected officials are worth, in general. One example for look up is Gavin C. Newsom, our Lt. Gov.

[EricO]

"This should give you some idea of how much money elected officials are worth, in general. One example for look up is Gavin C. Newsom, our Lt. Gov."

Interesting. Quite a real estate and stock portfolio.

"So you'll be pushing that legislation we discussed Lt Gov?"

"Yes."

"Thanks, here's some stock for your troubles."

[Ralph]

Like him or not Gavin is a self made man. Out of college he started Plumpjacks restaurant which he grew into a chain of high end restaurants and food and wine distributors. He leveraged Plumpjacks to start a general investment firm which bought real estate and businesses around the country. I only know this because many of his holding were in Squaw Valley.

As the story goes he got into government when the city of San Francisco made him install a $30,000. sink in one of his wine tasting rooms for the sole purpose of having a mop on the premises. Didn't matter to the City that his entire business was carpeted and he had a steam carpet cleaner. Maybe he saw government as a good investment. Maybe he wanted to make a difference, I don't know.

[pgw]

Now, WPAs (Waterfowl Production Areas) are closed...no waterfowl or upland bird hunting in federal areas!
http://www.pheasantsforever.org/page/1/PressReleaseViewer.jsp?pressReleaseId=119606

!@#$%^&*()_!@#$%^&* politicians who refuse to negotiate!

Paul

[Darian]

Ralph,.... I wasn't trying to single out Newsom as much as provide a starting point for searchers of the information about state/local officials. I agree that Newsom seems to be a self made man and very ambitious. I give him high marks for being the only mayor of SF that had the strength to try to tackle the homeless situation over there and support the gay marriage issue while in office. Maybe the latter was politically motivated but I don't think so. It was definitely a high risk move.

Also, this info tends to support the idea that only wealthy people or those that have major support from wealthy people are elected to office no matter the level of government. This creates a built in conflict with voting decisions for politicians while in office. It's altogether unreasonable to assume that anyone will vote against their self interests when a conflict arises. Just an observation on my part but it seems that the people who enter public office may not be wealthy to begin with but are always wealthy when leaving. IMO, it's all about money and power, whether in elected office or not.

[Jake O]

Just saw on the news that Obama sent his goons to arrest vietnam veterans who had a pre-planned memorial planned at the new york memorial site, allst the while the Obama and his goons made a special exception for allowing an immigration rally to take place today at the otherwise closed national mall in DC.....hell, they even provided them with 100 porta potties. Glad this "government" has their priorities straight.

[JasonB]

Just saw on the news that Obama sent his goons to arrest vietnam veterans who had a pre-planned memorial planned at the new york memorial site, allst the while the Obama and his goons made a special exception for allowing an immigration rally to take place today at the otherwise closed national mall in DC.....hell, they even provided them with 100 porta potties. Glad this "government" has their priorities straight.

You know this is precisely the kind of inflammatory commentary that does nothing to forward anyones cause. For starters the president doesn't control the NYPD, nor does any of this have a thing to do with our (federal) public lands being closed off, nor the current government shutdown. Totally pointless rant.
JB

[Randy B]

The fed campgrounds along the Trinity are closed and USFS, essential staff, are policing those areas.

[JasonB]

That sucks, hopefully the circus closes soon...
JB

[Jake O]

The fact that you find the comment pointless is precisely the problem ;)

[TTM]

The fed campgrounds along the Trinity are closed and USFS, essential staff, are policing those areas.

Are they patrolling fishing areas? Or campsites only?

[Scott V]

Just saw on the news that Obama sent his goons to arrest vietnam veterans who had a pre-planned memorial planned at the new york memorial site, allst the while the Obama and his goons made a special exception for allowing an immigration rally to take place today at the otherwise closed national mall in DC.....hell, they even provided them with 100 porta potties. Glad this "government" has their priorities straight.

Actually, they were antiwar protesters that go there every year to do the same thing. Plus they were there after hours and were asked multiple times to leave or they would get arrested.

If you don't like the rules then change them, but don't be a burden on others while trying to make a point.

[Scott V]

The fact that you find the comment pointless is precisely the problem ;)

And the fact that you posted incorrect information is the big problem. But don't let facts get in the way of your political agenda.

[Randy B]

Are they patrolling fishing areas? Or campsites only?

Wouldn't think so, but don't know for sure. Know they chased us out of the Hayden Flat campground when were they to scout a run. The USFS employee said they we're trying to accomodate the guides for access. Makes sense as they rely on the resource for their income. Unlike the fed employees who I believe will be paid.

[Jake O]

And the fact that you posted incorrect information is the big problem. But don't let facts get in the way of your political agenda.

The facts are they are vietnam veterans who every year have this rally and they were denied a permit application by the federal goverment (park service) to maintain the rally---its not about the fact they were asked to leave and arrested, its about the fact that they were denied the permit in the first place, all the while a rally for immigration reform was granted a permit at the national mall. The FACT remains scott that the "government" time and time again makes very interesting choices----e.g., deny death benefits to the families of slain soldiers while the gov is shut down but all the while fund hundreds of out houses for an immigration reform rally..Care to dispupte that one Scott?

Funny you should mention "political agenda" but yet apparently support the biggots in the white house (and yes, park service is a branch of the executive).

Its no wonder why the government has chosen to shut down acccess to its national parks, federal refuges, etc., ---there simply arent enough votes to obtain by option to leave them open. As to those concerned about federal refuges being open for duck hunting by the opener on the 19th, the one good thing going is this country's credit expires in the 17th, so if anything is going to get worked out you would think something would happen before then.

End of rant.

[Scott V]

Funny you should mention "political agenda" but yet apparently support the biggots in the white house (and yes, park service is a branch of the executive).


Nope, I don't support what they are doing, but good ASSumption on your behalf. Seeing as this is turning into a political spat, I am stepping away, I have more important things in my life then to argue politics.

[Charlie S]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/UkiahCharlie/093818b94a09847c1fe17f4af70cde8f.jpg

[Mike O]

do the new owners of the board have any rules against personal attacks or political BS? the original rules seem to have been taken down?

[aaron]

Where's Bobby G and his line about pigs in the mud, seems fitting right now!