Was talking with a senior fisheries biologist the other day.......

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

He inferred the reason that hatcheries don't really work well for salmon is the fact that the fish they produce are genetically so similar that when there is a desease, it get's almost all if them.

In nature the fish are different so some survive.

He said that might be why we have periods of almost no fish returning and then year of really large amounts of fish.

I think we know that long term hatchies don't work near as well as nature.


So we need to just keep taking out more dams and don't plant those rivers with hatchery fish.

.

[winxp_man]

Bill makes sense. But it goes deeper than just taking out dams. After what I seen up on the north coast this year (I guess the mouth of the river switches where it dumps into the ocean every year) through that channel the river formed for fish to go up I would say its a lot of other things that need to be enforced to make a natural fishery happen. Yes it can and it would be a great thing happen in our rivers.

I was also reading more on the Klamath dam removal and even this project is not bound to happen till at least 2020.

[Walter]

An unnamed NorCal river used to have seven "mouths," it braided. That is a healthy river. I saw a Pre-WWII aerial photo.

Now it has a jetty and a herd of seals at the one mouth.

No its not the Russian.

And at least there is a closure at the mouth. No lining fish in the mouth Mad River/Klamath Style, at least not there.

It's Redwood Creek.


Why does the Mattole ban bait and have a mouth closure?

Whats with all the inconsistency in our NorCal Regs?

Why does Oregon and Washington already have regs limiting tackle so snagging and intentional lining is much more difficult, but California does not?


They just make more hatchery fish to justify their jobs and budget.

[donkeyhunter007]

GEnetic diversity GooD= Hatcheries BAD
There are two dams on the river where I grew up. Turn of the century10,000- 20,000 adults. Now 800.
I m studying geology/hydrology/river restoration. A healthy river transports the sediment provided by the watershed and distributes it in a manner beneficial to steelhead and salmon for spawning. This natural process of sediment transport has been functioning for millions of years. The channeling (straightening) of rivers to accommodate roads and the construction within the floodplain of rivers inhibits the proper distribution of gravel within the watershed, rivers and coastline. Dams cut off steelhead and salmon from historic spawning grounds as well as inhibit the natural transport of sediment within the system. We are messing these fish everywhere. Where the populations of people increase the population of fish decreases. Hydro electric power is not a green energy source if it is destroying resources (salmon and steelhead). There are solutions but they are cost prohibitive. The cost of large scale water transport and storage infrastructure is only going to increase. We need to bite the bullet act now and fork over the dough to improve our infrastructure. I did some research in my local watershed and calculated that the diversion of high winter flows to an OFF STREAM ( as apposed to reservoirs in stream) storage site could provide substantial volumes of water without hindering steelhead migration and spawning. Hatcheries are not the answer. We need to restore the habitat IMHO. Its not just about the fish WE ALL NEED WATER. Its time to pony up as a society and fix this. Im kinda thirsty right now :-). LET THE WATER WARS BEGIN.

[pvsprme]

GEnetic diversity GooD= Hatcheries BAD
There are two dams on the river where I grew up. Turn of the century10,000- 20,000 adults. Now 800.
I m studying geology/hydrology/river restoration. A healthy river transports the sediment provided by the watershed and distributes it in a manner beneficial to steelhead and salmon for spawning. This natural process of sediment transport has been functioning for millions of years. The channeling (straightening) of rivers to accommodate roads and the construction within the floodplain of rivers inhibits the proper distribution of gravel within the watershed, rivers and coastline. Dams cut off steelhead and salmon from historic spawning grounds as well as inhibit the natural transport of sediment within the system. We are messing these fish everywhere. Where the populations of people increase the population of fish decreases. Hydro electric power is not a green energy source if it is destroying resources (salmon and steelhead). There are solutions but they are cost prohibitive. The cost of large scale water transport and storage infrastructure is only going to increase. We need to bite the bullet act now and fork over the dough to improve our infrastructure. I did some research in my local watershed and calculated that the diversion of high winter flows to an OFF STREAM ( as apposed to reservoirs in stream) storage site could provide substantial volumes of water without hindering steelhead migration and spawning. Hatcheries are not the answer. We need to restore the habitat IMHO. Its not just about the fish WE ALL NEED WATER. Its time to pony up as a society and fix this. Im kinda thirsty right now :-). LET THE WATER WARS BEGIN.

X2
Genetic diversity is the key, along with all the other factors. If you don't have GD, nothing else will work. It's symbiotic.