pit river isonychia hatch will dissappear

[shawn kempkes]

http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Article/view/articleid/31755/


now that the whitewater river rapers got their way how long will it be before this rivers amazing trout fishery disappears. after it happened on the north fork of the feather the bugs dissappeared.

[TyV]

"Whitewater river rapers"??? Classy!

Restoring natural higher flows to a river for a couple of days a year isn't going to destroy a fishery! SMH!

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

We will be up on the Pit River September 6, 7 and 8, so I will report if we see any Isonychias.

We might be a little early.........

[TyV]

"Isonychia mayflies are strong swimmers, and live in moderate to fast flows"

And this guy thinks that a 2 day release of a bit more water is going to destroy them? Seriously? Anybody else want to squash this nonsense???

[shawn kempkes]

Better rethink your dates. There are boating releases for those dates.

[shawn kempkes]

The first July boating releases on the north fork feather out the isonychia mayflies not to mention the catastophic drift to the foothill yelow legged frogs on the feather. There are several studies

https://watershed.ucdavis.edu/pdf/Yarnell-Mount-et-al-2009.pdf

The latest study didnt find any isonychia in the NFF rock creek reach because they were wiped out by the first boating releases.http://calsport.org/news/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/RCC-Final-Rec-Release-Flow-Macro-Study-Report.pdf



Not a study that has been watered down but here is another opinion that agrees with my conclusion

http://www.myoutdoorbuddy.com/hunting_report.php?Hunting=616

(http://www.myoutdoorbuddy.com/hunting_report.php?Hunting=616)

[joshfish]

My feeling is get rid of all dams. The kayakers can have the rivers during high water and fisherman can have it the rest of the time. No more arguing about flows. Leave it all up to nature. To bad that wont happen. What happened before the dams when there was high water from winter storms or snow melt. We're they wiped out then?

[joshfish]

If i read it correctly The flow schedule only shows releases in pit five for the dates bill will be up there.

[TyV]

What happened before the dams when there was high water from winter storms or snow melt. We're they wiped out then?

Exactly! It doesn't take much insight and intelligence to figure this out.

[Scott V]

The sky is falling, the sky is falling:rolleyes:

[shawn kempkes]

If i read it correctly The flow schedule only shows releases in pit five for the dates bill will be up there.


IMHO pit five fishes the best.

[wineslob]

I fish the NFF alot. I've never seen any drops in trout populations. However, the section at the Tobin Cabins was possibly comprimised from a spill a few years ago. Getting rid of the dams would destroy the man-made fishery, unless you like Squaw Fish.

[aaron]

Alienating the whitewater folks isn't really the best idea; there's probably a lot more of them than fly fisherman, they have a better organized lobbying group, and they also have the long term best interest of the rivers in mind. If we ever want to get anywhere on damn removal and maintaining healthy flows we're better off conceding recreational releases and banding together on the big picture. Full disclosure, I fish and I paddle.

[EricO]

IMHO pit five fishes the best.

Well have you seen what the flows have been on a regular basis after the FERC licensing agreement these
last few years?

I used to fish it often (with great results) prior to the flow increase...as I recall, around 200cfs. Now it
runs in the 400-600 cfs range.

Screw that, i want to live. It was already a pain in the butt to wade at 200cfs, but doable.

Unless you have some secret spots that fish well at the high flows, I'll stick with Pit 3 and 4.

Just my .02 cents

EO

[ycflyfisher]

"Isonychia mayflies are strong swimmers, and live in moderate to fast flows"

And this guy thinks that a 2 day release of a bit more water is going to destroy them? Seriously? Anybody else want to squash this nonsense???

I agree that it initially sounds nuts. But it may not be. A two day bump in flow in Jan-April, probably doesn’t do anything. But does that necessarily hold true if the bumps happens when the Isos have transitioned from their normal habitat to the slack, shallow margin water to molt and end up getting swept away?

I don’t know that Shawn is right about the Isos, but I wouldn’t doubt that he could be. I don’t fish the NFF at all in the Fall, but the anglers I know who do are singing the same tune: No Isos above the Pulga reach. It isn’t so much the volume or duration of the pulse, but the timing that could be the issue.

Pulse flows are definitely not good, but I think the increased base flows are definitely beneficial and likely outweigh the negative impacts of the pulse flows, so I can't agree they've destroyed the river. Isos maybe, river no.

[Scott V]

Full disclosure, I fish and I paddle.


As do I, plus I was a spear fisherman as well. I am amazed at how many times I have been insulted by people's generalization comments. But then again I just laugh at some of the ignorant statements made. Probably why I pretty much no longer post any reports.

[Jeff F]

I don't mind whitewater guys, as they have a right to the river as we do. However, what does bother me is the lobby. Particularly, lobbying for pulse flows on rivers when nobody actually uses them.

I fish the NFF alot, and I know they have their annual get together up there (coming up soon, I think). However, during years past, when there were scheduled pulse flows, I never saw a single kyaker in that river, Rock Ck or Cresta stretch. And I've definitely never seen a boat on the Pit, which I also fish alot. So, it seems the lobby is just trying to get pulse flows on every single river just for the sake of getting pulse flows. I don't see the nexus for increasing flows for boaters when there are no boaters using a particular stream.

As for the Iso's......I doubt the flows will affect the Pit. However, the NFF.....I used to see lots of them, but now I think they're mainly down in the Pulga section.

I haven't noticed a decline in trout #s on the NFF. If you fish that river alot, you know damn well that those fish are unlike other fish. They move around alot and are extremely sensitive to a tiny change in air pressure. And in the dog days of summer, sometimes you'd swear there weren't any trout in there cuz the squawfish take over the trout lies. That's why I only fish it early and late in the season.

~Jeff

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

We will just have to wait and see.

Like most of this we, don't know what is going to happen and that is OK.

It seems we have Isonychias where the water gets a little warm in late summer.



How many streams have you seen them on or heard about others seeing?

Pit River - tons for years.

MFF - others

Battle Creek -once

Trinity River - once

Maybe they are on the Klamath River?

.

[wineslob]

.I used to see lots of them, but now I think they're mainly down in the Pulga section.


I'd LOVE to see them try the section below Pulga Power Dam. :cool:

[Kevin Goding]

Unless the pulses cause some bedroll I doubt much will happen. As long as the Iso habitat is not utterly destroyed, they will stick around.

As far as the FERC stuff goes, at least they try I guess. It's just one of those regulatory things that is more or less controlled by the people it's supposed to be regulating, so you have to take everything with a grain of salt.

[JasonB]

I think Aaron has a very good point, which is that the interests of the whitewater paddlers and those of anglers have a huge amount of overlap. There are indeed some differences, just as there are some major differences between various angling interests. If we all splinter and call each other names NONE of our shared interests will get the lobbying power that they well could. I actually know several of the key folks (ww paddlers included) who do a lot of work on the relicencing process, and the fact is that most of them are quite interested and concerned with the health of the river ecosystem. Some of them fish too. There could be a LOT more co-ordination and with some small compromises amongst ourselves we may well be able to tackle some more major concerns. One point that I think bears mention regarding pulse flows, is that there is quite a bit of interest and discussion about aranging recreational whitewater releases that are much more in line with what natural flows would be.

I do paddle, and I fish, and I think that there are some purely self serving interests in both of those particular groupes; but there are plenty of people in both who really do care about the bigger picture than just their own personal interests. I'd like to think of myself in that camp; I'm more concerned with the overall health of any given river system than my own oportunities to fish it or paddle it. My suggestion is that if you have a well thought out and fact based idea of how to make any improvements to the situation, and think that the whitewater lobby is on the wrong track you should contact Dave Steindorf through American Whitewater. Dave is a very good guy, and while his position is certainly to best represent the whitewater interests, he is by no means blind to other issues and concerns.
Cheers (now I'm off in search of more silvers and steelhead in Alaska!)
JB

[Kevin Goding]

We will just have to wait and see.

Like most of this we, don't know what is going to happen and that is OK.

It seems we have Isonychias where the water gets a little warm in late summer.



How many streams have you seen them on or heard about others seeing?

Pit River - tons for years.

MFF - others

Battle Creek -once

Trinity River - once

Maybe they are on the Klamath River?

.

We used to get a few of them in Butte Creek close to Chico. They are cool to look at under a microscope.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Here is our general info on the Pit River:

http://www.kiene.com/portfolio-view/pit-river/

[oldtrout]

What happened before the dams when there was high water from winter storms or snow melt. We're they wiped out then?

Exactly! It doesn't take much insight and intelligence to figure this out.

The high flows were seasonal back then, not man-made out of season flows unnaturally occurring when the insects are most vulnerable.

[joshfish]

Thanks old trout. Someone else also explained its not so much the pulse flows but the timing of them.

[TyV]

The high flows were seasonal back then, not man-made out of season flows unnaturally occurring when the insects are most vulnerable.

While you and the other person that made these claims about out of season flows possibly have a point, with a little reason, I believe they too can be debunked! While higher flows in September are certainly uncommon, they HAVE happened historically in Northern California in the Pit Drainage...yet, Isisonychia still apear in the Pit. Somehow they exist today even though they have seen natural "pulse" flows at as you stated "unnatural" times....prior to the installation of dams!

Even the possibility that this could have a negative effect on the isonychia(however slim), is a reason for the fishing and paddling communities to work together. The paddling community certainly wouldn't care WHEN the releases are held...it's simply that they are held at all. The Pit is a beautiful river that has been shut off to the possibility of paddling at whitewater flows since the dams were installed. People simply want the opportunity to experience/paddle the river...pick a month...any month. It really doesn't matter.

I fish, I paddle...and I am as big about conservation as anyone on this board!

Fish ON

[shawn kempkes]

While you and the other person that made these claims about out of season flows possibly have a point, with a little reason, I believe they too can be debunked! While higher flows in September are certainly uncommon, they HAVE happened historically in Northern California in the Pit Drainage...yet, Isisonychia still apear in the Pit. Somehow they exist today even though they have seen natural "pulse" flows at as you stated "unnatural" times....prior to the installation of dams!

Even the possibility that this could have a negative effect on the isonychia(however slim), is a reason for the fishing and paddling communities to work together. The paddling community certainly wouldn't care WHEN the releases are held...it's simply that they are held at all. The Pit is a beautiful river that has been shut off to the possibility of paddling at whitewater flows since the dams were installed. People simply want the opportunity to experience/paddle the river...pick a month...any month. It really doesn't matter.

I fish, I paddle...and I am as big about conservation as anyone on this board!

Fish ON

i presently own a Sotar IK a 11 ft sotar legend and all my fishing is done out of a 16 ft Aire Jaguarundi. I paddle all the time winter spring summer. There is always something running in Oregon. What I object to the whitewater pulse flows.
I have seen their impact on fishing on rivers like the North Umpqua ( I was there when they were doing test flows for boating)
and on the NFF when they did the first rock creek cresta releases. The Original Ganda studies confirmed my suspicions.

[ricards]

If i read it correctly The flow schedule only shows releases in pit five for the dates bill will be up there.

I sent you a PM.