Lower Yuba drift boat guides!?!?

[cosmokenney]

Anyone else having a problem with the drift boats on the Yuba stopping in the run you are fishing and having their clients fish yards from you as if you aren't even there? Don't get me wrong, there are the occasional guides (mostly the older guys) who will pass through and fish below you. But there seems to be more and more who don't care about the wading fly fisherman. If they were wading, too, they wouldn't walk right up and start casing next to another guy. So what's makes it cool to forgo common fly fishing etiquette if you are in a boat?

It's almost as bad, now, as fishing on the Middle Fork of the American when the rafters start coming through. Nothing worse than hiking for a couple of hours in the heat of summer to your favorite hole, only to have 100 rafts come floating by, just as you get rigged up. At least there, they talk to you. They say seemingly friendly things like "how's the fishing?", "how'd you get way out here?". The only thing is, it get's annoying answering the same question 150 times. That and the fish get lock jaw until an hour after the last raft goes through.

[amoeba]

They fish the same water, but usually drifting through; I've not had one anchor up next to me, if that's what you mean. If you mean letting clients get out, nope, I haven't seen a client get out of the boat either - on the Yuba River - in over 20 years of fishing it. I wouldn't doubt it happens. More often, guides and their clients move quickly, use huge bobbers, and never fish an area long enough to change flies. Not the sort of behavior that suggests they have a clue what they are doing; it goes with the territory - namely - heavily fished areas such as the Yuba. Hence, I wouldn't be too bothered.

[cosmokenney]

They fish the same water, but usually drifting through; I've not had one anchor up next to me, if that's what you mean. If you mean letting clients get out, nope, I haven't seen a client get out of the boat either - on the Yuba River - in over 20 years of fishing it. I wouldn't doubt it happens. More often, guides and their clients move quickly, use huge bobbers, and never fish an area long enough to change flies. Not the sort of behavior that suggests they have a clue what they are doing; it goes with the territory - namely - heavily fished areas such as the Yuba. Hence, I wouldn't be too bothered.

No they don't anchor, the guide backwards rows so the boat stays relatively stationary. It takes them 10-15 minutes to make it through the run. All the while the two guys with their indicators are pounding the water. In some cases there's not enough room for you to cast, so you either have to leave or wait. But there's no real point in waiting because all of the abuse to the surface seems to put the fish down for a long while. 10-15 minutes isn't a long time overall. But when you are wading, and have to leave and hike back to your car to find a new spot to fish, it puts a real damper on your day.

Yesterday I had it happen to me three times. One boat had three guys with spinning rods. They were chucking metal of some sort, and completely owned the run I was fishing. They hooked up three or four times right in front of me. No point fishing that run after three fish have been caught. And then there was all the hoot'n and hollering. They actually did the same thing down stream, in the next run. There the result was the same, and the guy fishing that run left too. I actually watched him hike out to his car -- day ruined for him.

I was able to salvage my day, but not until all the boats made it through.

[Finatical]

Cosmo,

Yes, I have had this happen on the Yuba. But it does not happen too often.

If the boat passes through while Ffishing that does not bother me; however, if they decide to camp in the run that is a problem. Just move on.

Do not be afraid to keep fishing this water that has been fished, especially if the boaters only hooked up a few times and did not make multiple drifts. Let it rest and analyze the situation. At least you know fish were eating their flies. What were they doing different? If you are doing the same thing but no fish, you need to probably work on your presentation. Do not be afraid to change things up. You will be surprised how many fish you can catch after a person has fished through an area.

[cosmokenney]

Cosmo,

Yes, I have had this happen on the Yuba. But it does not happen too often.

If the boat passes through while Ffishing that does not bother me; however, if they decide to camp in the run that is a problem. Just move on.

Do not be afraid to keep fishing this water that has been fished, especially if the boaters only hooked up a few times and did not make multiple drifts. Let it rest and analyze the situation. At least you know fish were eating their flies. What were they doing different? If you are doing the same thing but no fish, you need to probably work on your presentation. Do not be afraid to change things up. You will be surprised how many fish you can catch after a person has fished through an area.

Well, to be honest, the two boats with fly rods didn't hook up at all. In fact it was a pretty slow day overall. I didn't see anyone fishing with fly gear catching fish (other waders). In 6.5 hours I managed to get 6 fish.

It was the boat with spinning gear that was knocking them dead. And I mean it was uncanny. Makes me rethink my whole tactic for the lower Yuba.

[Garrett S Realtor]

I know there are good guides out there and with that being said this is what puts a sour taste in my mouth when it comes to guides and the sad thing is there are more out there with bad habits then not. My suggestion is putting these guides on blast. If you see a guide using bad etiquette take a picture and share it, that way we can avoid supporting these people when looking for a guide service. A good guide does not need to steal your water to put clients on fish

[amoeba]

Well, to be honest, the two boats with fly rods didn't hook up at all. In fact it was a pretty slow day overall. I didn't see anyone fishing with fly gear catching fish (other waders). In 6.5 hours I managed to get 6 fish.

It was the boat with spinning gear that was knocking them dead. And I mean it was uncanny. Makes me rethink my whole tactic for the lower Yuba.


Spinning gear is legal; and can involve flash, sound, and other attractants to a lure pattern which are not applicable to the fly method, but nonetheless effective. I suspect this is what you observed. Hopefully, they used single-siwash, barbless hooks, no more than size 8, to lessen injury to the fish.

[cosmokenney]

Spinning gear is legal; and can involve flash, sound, and other attractants to a lure pattern which are not applicable to the fly method, but nonetheless effective. I suspect this is what you observed. Hopefully, they used single-siwash, barbless hooks, no more than size 8, to lessen injury to the fish.

Amoeba, I'm not sure, so don't take this the wrong way, but you seem to be reading a lot into what I'm writing.

I know they have every right to be there fishing with spinning gear as I do to be there with my fly rods. It is simply that more and more guides are doing this than ever before. Last year it would be once or twice. But to have it happen to me three times in one day? And to see it happen to the guy down stream from me. Come on. That's nuts.

[cosmokenney]

I know there are good guides out there and with that being said this is what puts a sour taste in my mouth when it comes to guides and the sad thing is there are more out there with bad habits then not. My suggestion is putting these guides on blast. If you see a guide using bad etiquette take a picture and share it, that way we can avoid supporting these people when looking for a guide service. A good guide does not need to steal your water to put clients on fish

Yea, this is a good idea. And, I know there are good guides. I fish the Yuba a lot. Twice a week this time a year. So I'm exposed to a lot of them. I see the same guys often. I've had some of the older guides comment favorably on my casting as they drifted through. I've even had one of them offer me cold drinks when he pulled over in an eddy to take a breather - not, once, but twice on separate days.

But I've also had to get out of the way of boats when I've been wading up to the limit of my waders. It's not fun to have to scramble in water that deep on the Yuba.

[amoeba]

Amoeba, I'm not sure, so don't take this the wrong way, but you seem to be reading a lot into what I'm writing.

I know they have every right to be there fishing with spinning gear as I do to be there with my fly rods. It is simply that more and more guides are doing this than ever before. Last year it would be once or twice. But to have it happen to me three times in one day? And to see it happen to the guy down stream from me. Come on. That's nuts.

I only brought up the legality of spinning gear because I own spinning equipment, know if it's effectiveness from past personal use, and when I used it on the Yuba, I recall being regularly interrogated by fly-fishermen who asked if my hooks were barbless, if I was using bait, if I was keeping fish, and so on.....to which I would reply: "no, how about you?" Maybe I should have asked "catch any fish?"

I think you ran into a bad bit of luck out there - even for the Yuba with it's combat fishing. Agreed, 3X/one day is nutz.

[the_gnarwhale]

Was one of the guides sporting a red beard?

[Jed Peters]

Why don't you call them out for poor etiquette then? Was it Hogan? Keith? Bill? Charlie? Ryan? Dave? Clay? All regularly read this board and are about the only half-way regular guides on that river. Some more often than others....

[k9mark]

My method of operation when this stuff happens to me is I call them out...Loudly. If that doesn't work I start chucking rocks in the water/hole to scare off everything. My thought is if your going to do that to me, then neither of us is going to catch anything.

[JasonB]

That sucks man! I've experienced that a few times while steelhead fishing, and I have the same thoughts as you: if it's NOT cool to jump in and fish the same water as you if they were in waders, why on earth does it become acceptable when they have a boat!? My thinking is that it's kind of like another level of personal removal, just like so many people get when behind the wheel of a car, or on the telephone, or email, etc etc. It seems like as soon as we have some sort of insulative layer between us and other human beings we tend to stop treating them with the same level of empathy and respect.

The good news is that like you, I've had plenty of really positive interactions with other anglers out there; both in boats and on foot, fly anglers and gear slingers too. :cool: Probably the main thing is to do your best not to take it personally or up the ante, which only increases the overall tension out on the river. Preferably anyone who is concerned with such lack of etiquette should go out of their way to teach any newer folks how much more enjoyable a day on the water is when being courteous and friendly to others, and to lead by example. Yeah there will always be some of "those" types in whatever you do, let's just try our best to make sure they remain the minority in the places we love best.

I feel your pain, hope you have better luck next time,
JB

btw, I saw a quote from Bigfly a while back that I think is quite relevant to this thread: something along the lines of "as your skills and expertise in fly fishing grows so too do your responsibilities" (pardon the butchered quote, maybe Jim can repost the correct qoute)

[tallguy]

Just pretend you are a poor caster and basically out of control with your casting.. add large splitshot, triple up your droppers, and make nearby people within casting distance nervous for their safety. If they are out of casting distance, well you probably shouldn't be concerned about them. Whistling a cast by someone's ear, slamming a bunch of splitshot into the side of the boat, and hooking something in close proximity to the offenders and then politely asking them to recover your rig for you also works well.

[troutless]

btw, I saw a quote from Bigfly a while back that I think is quite relevant to this thread: something along the lines of "as your skills and expertise in fly fishing grows so too do your responsibilities" (pardon the butchered quote, maybe Jim can repost the correct qoute)

I though the whole point of fishing was to avoid responsibilities? Dude, you've ruined it for me now!

Seriously, though, there is wisdom in this thought.

[Morgan]

My method of operation when this stuff happens to me is I call them out...Loudly. If that doesn't work I start chucking rocks in the water/hole to scare off everything. My thought is if your going to do that to me, then neither of us is going to catch anything.

I like this :)

[FlyBum]

I've had this happen as well. The worst offense though was when I was with a guide on the Lower Sac the last time. Some douchebag with a sign on his boat stating how long he's guided in the area came between us and the bank when we were fishing close to the bank. I wish I had my camera on me at the time.