Am sure some of you have read this

[Mike O]

But it was new to me. Any comments?

http://www.ridgenet.net/~rockwell/Giardia.pdf

Article about your chances of catching giardiasis from drinking Sierra Water.

Mike

[JasonB]

Not scientific statement in any way, BUT, a buddy of mine had passed this info along to me a little while back. He "always drank freely from mountain streams", and was pretty confident that the miniscule chance of getting Giardia were not worthy of concern. This winter he got it, now he filters his water... I've drank some high elevation water from time to time, but for now I'm inclined to filter it just to be on the safe side. I'm sure the odds are fairly low, but a filter just doesn't take up that much space, or weight and I've never found them challenging to use at all (not sure what the author finds so awkward about them).

Of course I may be wrong, I'm willing to take that chance if all it means is dealing with a filter...
JB

[SHigSpeed]

I recently bought a Sawyer squeeze filter to replace my Katadyn Hiker pump. Three ounces or so and good for a million gallons. Cheap and light insurance.

_SHig

[Ed Wahl]

That's a very informative link Mike, thanks. It confirms my years of anecdotal evidence. I've been suckin up Sierra water for decades. One of my favorites is a spring about halfway up coming out of the North Fork American. We dubbed it the "thank you Jesus" spring because that was the point where our water bottles ran out on a 100 degree day. Another memorable seep comes to mind, this one in the South Fork canyon while quail hunting. Our water bottles were long dried out and we came across a seep in a gully. The dog, Figaro, was thirsty too but we had to take turns holding him back while we drank because he liked to lay in the water while he drank his share. Then there's the friendly rattler that took off instead of biting me in the head when I drank from a spring in the desert while Scott and I fished a tiny stream on the eastern side. You're really missing out on the Sierra experience if you're too afraid to flop down on your belly and drink the water. Ed

[DFrink]

Thanks for sharing this Mike. I've heard of this study, interesting to read.

[Ned Morris]

Good info but the same old same old. Ralph put a really good summary of Sierra Water stats in the last version of Sierra Trout Guide over 20 years ago. I use a filter when I have the time, but when in the really remote country I never bother. There are however other bugs in the water that can get you sick other than Giardia. The chances however are very very slim. I have had Giardia and it sucks but you live. Ed makes a good point, the day comes when you are too scared to drink from a High Sierra Mountain stream you should pack it in (no pun intended). Going to Bishop Pass/Dusy Basin this weekend and will let you all know what I did and where as it is a very high use area of the Sierras.

[the_gnarwhale]

Some really bad advice in this thread. Giardia and Crypto can be debilitating to a person with the right predisposed conditions. You can get a filter or steri pen for relatively cheap. Use them.

[bigfly]

Forty years ago I contracted Girardia at 12,000 ft.in the Palisades.
The memory is still strong.....I could barely get out of the back-country for treatment (And the climbing trip was a bust).
Filter, boil,or treat your water.....or not.




Jim

[Ralph]

Good paper. Desolation Wilderness is the most heavily used back country region in the state. In the 80's over several summers of continuously gathering water samples from Desolation, a team from UNR could not find a single infective dose of Giardia (I think that is 10 spores/liter??). Prior to that, several researches reported finding plenty of Giardia in the Sierra, however they failed to identify the species. Turns out there are many types of Giardia carried by many different animals but only a few strains infect humans. Beaver carry Giardia and shat in the water all the time. Despite the common term "beaver fever" used to describe Giardia, the common beaver Giardia is harmless to humans.

I've had Giardia several times and it sucks, but I never got it from Sierra waters which I've been drinking unfiltered all my life. Hikers who claim to have contracted Giardia are usually victims of E. coli, Campylobacter or Salmonella poisoning. Giardia usually takes at least two weeks after infection to create noticeable symptoms. About 20% of the folks on this board currently carry Giardia and don't know it. If you get sick after drinking Sierra water, tests will show you have Giardia, but the symptoms were highly likely to have been caused by something else.

Giardia spores sink. Get your drinking water from a quiet pool or a lake if you want to decrease the faint possibility of contracting Giardia. Be intelligent about where you source your water, but don't be afraid to get down on your belly and drink the cold clean water from a High Sierra brook. It is one of finer pleasures in life.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

I got what they said was giardia in Central America once.

As Ralph mentioned, it takes two weeks till you get the 'fun' symptoms.

They gave me something for it and I think I had a fast cure.


I think that if you are hiking a high elevation trout stream you should be OK, especially drinking from a spring.


Taking a filter system sounds smart though.

.

[bigfly]

When I contracted G. back then, I had a stool test done, and it was positive.
Had to use the "Cancer causing" Flagyl .to get over it.
Wouldn't disagree with Ralph on anything.....but I'll continue to filter.
Nice cold water, and no worries.
Once was enough.

Jim

[Ralph]

Hey Jim-
Feel free to disagree with me!! I'm usually wrong anyway.
Flagyl is no fun. . . especially not being able to drink (unfiltered) beer while taking it. If you get giardiasis again ask your doc for Tinidazol rather than Flagyl. It's a one shot dose that is just as effective as Flagyl and you can back to drinking a whole week sooner.
http://www.giardiasis.org/Treatment.aspx

[DLJeff]

Do you think conditions have changed over the last 20 years or so, with infection becoming more likely? When I was a kid growing up in Colorado, we carried a tin cup on our belt and when thirsty we just dipped one out of whatever stream we were on. The only places we didn't do that was when downstream of known cattle pastures. But if we were in the high country, we drank the water without filter and I don't recall anyone ever getting sick. Now days, they recommend you filter everywhere, even a little trickle melt water runoff from a snow field at tree level.

[Ralph]

It is a sign of our over-protective times. Back in the day skinned knees were a badge of childhood, today they are a sign of child abuse. I drink the water, hike alone, don't wear SPF XX sunscreen, and don't carry an approved 1st aid kit much less a signal mirror or cell phone. According to all the warnings I should have died decades ago.

Enter a California State Park and you have to shoulder past billboards warning of the presence of ticks, lions, rattlesnakes, poison oak, swift water, submerged rocks, undertow. . . I'm still waiting for the sign that simply says, "Have a good day".

[Mike McKenzie]

It is a sign of our over-protective times. Back in the day skinned knees were a badge of childhood, today they are a sign of child abuse. I drink the water, hike alone, don't wear SPF XX sunscreen, and don't carry an approved 1st aid kit much less a signal mirror or cell phone. According to all the warnings I should have died decades ago.

Enter a California State Park and you have to shoulder past billboards warning of the presence of ticks, lions, rattlesnakes, poison oak, swift water, submerged rocks, undertow. . . I'm still waiting for the sign that simply says, "Have a good day".

Amen, Ralph!
I grew up fishin' and hikin' the Sierra. Drank where ever we felt thirsty and never "caught" any "bugs"... The one caveat though, we never drank from the North Fork of the Stanislaus anywhere below the Wolfeboro Boy Scout Camp!
Nowadays one wonders why we are not all dead from all the "gremlins" out to get us!

Mike

[El Rey]

Good advice about the water below Wolfeboro. Having spent five summers in my youth at Wolfeboro I remember what kids do/did in the water. However, on our hikes to Spicer and Elephant Rock we would refresh and dip our cups in various springs along the trail--but not the ones where the cattle were allowed to graze. Nobody ever got sick that I recall.

Harlan, Wolfeboro Pioneer, class of 1957

[Slice]

Giardia spores sink. Get your drinking water from a quiet pool or a lake if you want to decrease the faint possibility of contracting Giardia.

Ralph,

Interesting, My dad always taught me to drink from the fast moving sections to avoid giardia. And I learn this on fathers day no less! I'm going to give him a hard time tonight when we go out to dinner, where we will probobly have a higher chance of catching something.

Jim

[Digger]

I always loved that picture of the coyote pissing in the stream.

[BS]

My take on this...........

Having been hospitalized multiple times for numerous lower GI problems when I was younger........I'll always, and will filter before drinking from any stream/water source.
My memories of being hooked up to IV's, lying in hospitals, and having to decide on whether to sit or hug the bowl are still deeply etched into my mind.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Bob

[bigfly]

Dying of dehydration next to a stream won't be happening...
But, given the choice i'll pass on untreated water.
I totally agree about over-protection Ralph.
Used up my nine lives several decades ago.
I ran with scissors,hiked, climbed, and dove solo.
Ate things that were a funny color or were undefinable...
Drove fast, braked late, and turned sharp.
Of course, I've mellowed a bit.....I don't run with scissors anymore.



Jim

[goby]

Be intelligent about where you source your water, but don't be afraid to get down on your belly and drink the cold clean water from a High Sierra brook. It is one of finer pleasures in life.

What's up with people liking unfiltered water? It seems really really stupid. And I can think of about a millions things that are better than drinking unfiltered water. I backpack all the time, sometimes in very remote areas. I always have my filter with me.

[DFrink]

From what I have read (a decent amount) the risk is fairly minimal. I do filter my water (why take the chance). But I think Ralph's point is that most of the reason everyone filters water is hysteria created over risks that are really low. You could get attacked by a mountain lion, does that mean you're going to quit hiking? To each their own...

[Ned Morris]

OK so went backpacking for 5 days couple of weeks ago out of South Lake - Bishop area. Camped at Bishop Lake, Dusy Basin #3, and Ruawau Lake. Scenery was great and Bishop Pass has been on my list for years. Another one checked off the 20 or so I've done in the high country since age 12. This trail gets some of the highest use anywhere in the Sierra I have ever seen. Trail reminded me of the highways at Tuolumne Meadows. Mid-week I saw at least 20 campsites in the backcountry and it makes sense since only 5.5 miles from trailhead to pass. Very easy by Eastern Sierra standards. Wouldn't ya know it in the scramble to pack my backpack at 6:00am in order get an early start on the trail what do I forget? You guessed it the MSR Water Filter. So had to drink from the snowmelt water that was surrounded in Marmot poo at Dusy and camped at Ruwau Lake that had more evidence of outdoor human toilets than I care to share all within 50 feet of the lake. Never boiled the water once, just drank it with the Crystal Light in for some flavor. Not a thing. No Giardia or anything else.

Drink the Sierra water folks. It's safer than what most people on this planet are allowed.

[Randy Lee]

El Rey,
I was a staff brat 59,60,61 and a scout 64,65,66. Wonderful memories. New pretty much everything that was going on between upper falls and lower falls. Had a blast.
Thanks for sharing,
Randy

[JasonB]

Not to be antagonistic, nor swim against the tide here as there seems to be a majority of folks who seem to prefer to forgo the filter.... BUT... I really still fail to see good reason to not do a quick filter of the water before consumption. I have drank straight from a mountain stream (untreated in any way) once or twice out of necessity, and nope I didn't get any ill affects from the experience. Those few times it just did the job, no sickness, no sublimely exotic pleasure either; but it sure did quench my thirst.

I still opt for a filter if at all possible, or boil it if I have the option. The issue for me is that although the risks may be small, I have no way of really judging those risks visually while out in the mountains. I don't really see this as being overprotective or paranoid, but by all means, I'm all for choosing ones own risks and all so don't filter if you're that comfortable with it. I still don't really see any compelling reasons for me to skip the filter personally since the water is pretty much the same color, taste, temperature, and consistency regardless if I filter it or not. I just don't see the added "value" or "experience", it's the same water either way.

Just for your further consideration: Just last week I rode in a van with no seatbelt on, and it turned out just fine... but I still wear one *almost* all the time. There's no way that I would let a small amount of risk stop me from experiencing any of life's pleasures, but if I can minimize those small risks while not missing out on any of the fun I fail to see why I wouldn't do so...
Cheers,
JB

(p.s. this is still an interesting, and hopeful discussion to me. glad to hear so many anecdotal stories from those who have never had any problems drinking our water "straight from the source")

[dpentoney]

Growing up on the upper reaches of the Smith River the house had an intricate water filtration system.......window screen over the intake to keep leaves, twigs, and frogs out of the system. I've consumed many gallons of water out of tributaries and the main Smith River. However, in the Sierras there is so much traffic that I would be careful about drinking any water that was downstream from any place people had been.......

[Mike O]

To throw something else into the mix...

If one swims in the Sierra streams/lakes, I fail to see how one can avoid taking ANY bad stuff into one's system. And ow about soaking them beers?

Mike