Home made fly box revisited

[jbird]

as some of you know Ive been putzing around in my woodshop with some cool pieces of wood.

Fly boxes are my focus and experimentation is my MO. Not always an ideal scenario when one has a limited supply of desirable wood!

The first fly box was very rudimentary. a block of wood hogged out on a router table creating a "clamshell effect"

Here is the box I posted last week. If you didnt see it, its solid Myrtle wood.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/jbird35/JDS_2035_zps7d0e9cf9.jpg

I started producing this style of fly box with varying success. This is a larger "clouser box". i blew part of it out on the router and reinforced one side with some hard maple. It actually gave it a a nice effect! Also, check out the nice spalting in the grain!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/jbird35/JDS_2033_zps2cbdecbe.jpg

This time I was more careful and patient and produced a VERY nice box that Im quite happy with. This one is clean enough to market if I chose. Its the inside of the box that makes the first two marginal, however absolutely usable.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/jbird35/JDS_2038_zps75d26b0f.jpg

Getting a little more creative. this one is walnut with a maple burl feature. I wanted to inlay the burl but theres just not enough wood left to carve out. Also this one hs maple corner splines.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/jbird35/JDS_2041_zps5e9872a2.jpg

This is where things start getting exciting! If youre not into wood, sorry and good night :)

I fondled this other piece of myrtle burl trying to visualize what to do with it. I couldnt do the same thing because this piece was 1 1/4" thick (doubled that would be a 2 1/2" thick fly box). So I filleted it to 3/16". I used it as a veneer show piece and framed it with another nice hardwood. In this case, black walnut. hmmmmm. I think I like this!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/jbird35/JDS_2042_zps6c5915c7.jpg

Running out of my original plank of Myrtle wood, I did the same thing with it. Framing it this time with hard maple. This box is extremely tight, clean and beautiful. I think this may be my "devine design" going forward.

Its hard to see in the picture, but this one will not have a magnetic closure. but rather what I call a "snug lip". Its a tongue and groove effect that makes it firmly slip closed and stay closed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/jbird35/JDS_2043_zpscd58f311.jpg

Heres the inside.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/jbird35/JDS_2044_zpse6da97e9.jpg

Heres the family all together. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/jbird35/JDS_2045_zps291618b2.jpg

This design can incorperate exotic veneer. Which is highly available online with amazing figured grains.

Anyone still awake???

[Larry S]

These belong in a museum; or my closet (LOL.) Real eye candy! Your book -PBJ- arrived yesterday. I have to finish
James Lee Burke's "Creole Belle" first, then I'll tackle your tome. Then I want to pass it along to one of my 5-yr old
neighbors for a critical read.
FWIW, we're expecting 80-degrees by Friday.
Best,
Larry S

[jbird]

Thanks Larry!
Dont forget to keep your thesaurus handy! lol


Oh and by the way...

FWIW, we're expecting 80-degrees by Friday.
I hate you! ;)

[Jimmie]

Very, Very Nice!!!

As somewhat of a wood butcher myself, I can appreciate what you have put into those gorgeous boxes

[BillB]

Nice! You're getting quite a production going. Hey Jbird, did you ever consider cylinder hinges? Would require a little beefing up on the hinge side though. http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=9838

[Slice]

"i blew part of it out on the router and reinforced one side with some hard maple. It actually gave it a a nice effect!"

I love this. Making your mistakes into something that looks good and looks like it was done on purpose.

They all look great, thanks for sharing these. Jim

[jbird]

Nice! You're getting quite a production going. Hey Jbird, did you ever consider cylinder hinges? Would require a little beefing up on the hinge side though. http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=9838

Bill. I actually was looking at that exact hinge on that same site. That may be in my future. I am a bit concerned with weight tho. I imagine they're considerably heavier not to mention I'll need to leave more wall on the box. They would look cool tho!

[DLJeff]

Fantastic!! As a maker of sawdust meself, I fully appreciate the skills you're displaying. I need to get me a little piece of that myrtle. And I agree with you, I like the myrtle with the maple frame.

[Mark Kranhold]

Beautiful work again Jay! I am going to have to show these to my brother inlaw, he is a master craftsman as well. He has been turning a lot of exotic woods on his lathe, but these will give him ideas for Christmas gifts:). He loves making his gifts! Jay your flies should be in your mailbox on friday.

[jbird]

Awesome Mark! Thank you and I promise to fish them well! Speaking of tying, I started a local fly club and last night was our 1st meeting. Some of the guys/gals have never tied so we did a wooly bugger workshop. I took for granted that its easy to keep tension on the thread without breaking it... and other simple things that us tyers havent thought about for ions. At one point I felt like I was trying to describe how to breathe. LOL I know how to do it but I dont know how to describe it. Then came the whip finish! Oh boy! It was actually a blast and Im looking forward to the next meeting.

Doug you are going to be like a kid in a candy store on the oregon coast. i bet youll find some sources that will make me green with envy :) In fact, I may want to purchase some small stuff from you if you get a good connection ;)

[DLJeff]

We move early next month so it'll take me a little while to get organized. But if I find a source I'll let you know or send a list of what I found.

[Morgan]

Stunning fly boxes. I love the detail you put into them. Im sure the classifieds on here would be a great way to sell off some of your extras. Thanks for sharing.

[jbird]

Thanks gangster! I have continued to whittle away on them and am indeed going to try to share them if the price is right. A lot of time and love goes into each one of these. not to mention the wood can be hard to find and expensive. i know theres some perfectly good chinese boxes on ebay for under $30. But some people would rather not buy Chinese :)

[David Lee]

I had no idea there were this many Wood-Butchers on this board ...

D.~

(Nice work , Jbird !)

[Morgan]

Thanks gangster! I have continued to whittle away on them and am indeed going to try to share them if the price is right. A lot of time and love goes into each one of these. not to mention the wood can be hard to find and expensive. i know theres some perfectly good chinese boxes on ebay for under $30. But some people would rather not buy Chinese :)

One of these boxes would look great displayed on a mantle. One could put that ever special fly in it as part of the display. KInda like a picture frame. I would not do either of those w/ one of those cheap chinese fly boxes.

[jbird]

Hey gangster, if you would like one, keep your eyes on the classifieds in the near future. Im going to start producing these and theyre going to be amazing. I will be letting the first few go for less than they are worth.

PS These are made with fishing in mind. they are durable and surprisingly light for wood boxes. But they are heirloom beautiful so they will display quite well!

[DLJeff]

What are you finishing them with, Jay? All my boxes get wet sooner or later. Inside too.

[jbird]

Doug. im using spar urethane. the outdoor, waterproof, oil based stuff. Im averaging 3-4 coats inside and out. you could probably drop it in the deschutes around maupin and it would wash up in astoria in a very similar condition. (the hinges may need polishing :) ) I am very diligent with the finish coat. Even inside as I know the inside actually is exposed to the most moisture. Wet flies in an enclosed box can cause a very high moisture content. with that said, it is in fact wood and will not behave like plastic or foam. I think some people are going to use and beat them hard, others will care for them with tenderness as they are works of art (no two are the same) Either way, they will retain their beauty... beat to heck or preserved :)

Ive oscillated over ugrading the hinges, but weight is a big concern for me. I also want to keep costs down so i can reflect that in my price. I will definately entertain custom orders with upgrades. Ive been getting some requests for rippled foam rather than my custom cork, so I will offer that upon request too.

I plan on going into production with sizes of 3X5, 4X6 and 5X7" boxes The final boxes are about 1 3/8" thick and surprisingly light. The 3X5's are really cool. not much larger than a deck of playing cards. Perfect for a little dryfly or nymph box. i plan on carrying two of the 3X5s for small flies and a 5X7 for my streamers and such.

Heres another sneak peek. This one is mango wood framed with hard maple.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/jbird35/JDS_2073_zps464976bb.jpg

As of now, im considering intro prices of..

3X5s $60
4X6s $75
5X7s $90

would love some feedback on these prices.

Just an idea of whats involved...

~These beautiful woods are expensive and not always easy to get.
~cork is getting more expensive and theres some time in fabricating the ridges.
~The actual construction of a box including sanding and varnish is taking me about 3-4 hours.
~Hardware (hinges and magnets)
~Varnish, sandpaper, tool wear and tear/blade and bit replacement, etc...

(boy after writing that out its going to be hard to let them go at those prices. LOL). Theres no difference in labor and very little difference in materials from one size to the next. They are all worth the same to me but its only fair to the consumer to vary prices based on box size.

The main thing that sets my boxes apart from the ones Im seeing out there, is the beautiful wood. I am hand picking every piece of wood that goes into these. and I'm looking at a source of wood that is DROP DEAD GORGEOUS!

I think its obvious Im not gonna get rich doing this but I love making this stuff and its great quality. I hope to do this on the side, make a few bucks and get folks to enjoy some cool craftsmanship in their gear.

[DLJeff]

I think you're a little on the low end for pricing. I've seen custom made wooden boxes for $100. And you forgot to mention that each and every box is unique - there is and never will be another box just like it (that's due to the wood grain). I have a three drawer coffee table with interchangeable drawers with a glass top. It houses my shell collection that I started back in 1964 in Am. Samoa. The guy who built it applied 12 coats (sprayed) of some solvent based finish. It's bullet proof. He showed me a piece that he finished and put a hot cup of coffee which he spilled so it made a ring. Let it dry and it wiped right off. Unfortunately he said they don't make that finish any more and I can't remember the name. Stays crystal clear for as long as the wood lasts.

[jbird]

Yeah theres some boxes out there for more than double that and theyre small and rather uninteresting...at least for that price. http://www.blue-ribbon-flies.com/shop/category/arts_gifts/dutch_boxes The price tag has a lot to do with the name attached to it

The prices I'm tossing out there are introductory prices. i'll let the first few go in that ball park. i am pretty comfortable getting some into circulation at a blow out price. once people actually handle one of these and see what they really have, they will know.
Obviously at these prices I will be netting about minimum wage. LOL. But I gotta start somewhere :)

[Darian]

I'm with DIJeff. Those boxes are worth quite a bit more than asking price. Love the differing types of wood. It truly makes each box unique. Keep 'em coming. :cool:

[bonneville54]

The prices I'm tossing out there are introductory prices......Obviously at these prices I will be netting about minimum wage. LOL. But I gotta start somewhere :)

As a guy in wood products manufacturing, my reaction is your prices a too low. in fact, the idea of "introductory pricing" may not work with a product like this (this isn't a bag of potato chips) ....generally speaking, it's easier to lower prices than raise them. Of course, a whole lot pricing decisions depend on your goals for the products....beer money or a serious business?

Looking at your competitors example. and assuming a decent margin:

Retail Price - $145.00
Wholesale Cost - $70.00
Manufacturing cost - $35.00

Making some assumptions about your manufacturing costs....

Wood cost - maybe a board foot or two in each box @ $3.00 to $12.00 per b/f (and this maybe low as I assume, at this point, you're paying retail prices for material) so...an average material cost of $7.50
Cork or foam - $1.00 (?)
Hinges - $2.50
Finish - $1.00
Labor - At $10.00 and hour (which is low) , do you have 2 hours in each box? For a cost of $20.00...

Using this example (and it's just that) your costs are around $30.00 per box and this does not include overhead, insurance, shipping, packaging, etc...stuff to keep in mind. I'd double your prices and you'd still be underselling the other guys. To me, you're selling art, not utility...price it as such.

In any case...they are beautiful, wishing you much success and, perhaps more importantly, fun...

[jbird]

Thanks for the replies guys! this is exactly what I was looking for. My apprehension is pricing them out of the market. I dont know if people are really buying those high end wood boxes out there? I would rather sell ten for $50 than one for $150. With that said, believe me, i know the prices I suggested are very low. when I first started thinking about selling these, my mind never even drifted below $100/box. They are not a factory made/assembly line product and folks with some woodworking knowledge know how much goes into these. Tho I imagine the vast majority dont know whats involved. So the question becomes, am i catering only to the afluent? Is there anything wrong with that? Just some bugs Im working out.

so the big question is, who here would buy these at the price Ive listed.... Who here would buy them for double the price Ive listed?

I also want to talk about a new direction Im heading in for some of my boxes... Real burl wood veneer. before you scoff at veneer, let me explain. First of all the veneer available is insanely beautiful and readily available. Please look here...

http://www.veneersupplies.com/categories/Veneer__Products/Wood__Veneer__M__-__Z/Walnut__%28Burl%29/

real wood veneer is extremely stable. Correctly laminated to thin, treated plywood, glued up and trimmed with hardwood (maple, walnut, etc... as shown in my "devine design"), encapsulated in multiple layers of spar varnish will result in a very stable, durable, light weight box that is one of a kind gorgeous. beautiful burls are not stable enough in and of themselves and would eventually fail along grain seams or knots. The veneer solution makes it possible to incorperate the most amazing and beautiful burls, ripples and birdseyes that are lightweight and stable.

[DLJeff]

I concur with your analysis of veneers vs actual burls. The only way I think you can get the burls to hold up is if you stabilize them. That's a little hard to do with larger pieces. I do that for reel seat blanks with a small vacuum pump and an old pressure cooker.

[Darian]

Jay,.... Great stuff!!! I plan on buying a 5"x7" box. If you made one, I'd like an even larger box, 7"X10"(?). purpose would be display. I'd like to see the burl veneer before I order, tho. :cool:

[jbird]

Thank you Darian. I'll make anything you want (almost :) ) I think guys might want boat boxes that could be in excess of 9X12. With surfaces of this size, some marquetry is not out of the question :) $$

as far as the burl veneer is concerned, I refuse to send anything to anybody that I'm not 100% happy with. The last thing I want to do is have some questionable work circulating with my name on it. I am still in R&D on this. When I have an excellent, repeatable product and turn out 6 or 8 of them, I will put them in the classifieds here. If you do like what you see, we'll talk about your 7X10.

I have 10 miscillaneous boxes right now that are the product of R&D (including the ones in the beginning of this thread.) that I will eventually part with for low prices. they are kind of random designs but they all have one commonality...theyre beautiful, functional fly boxes. :)

[Fubar]

Enjoyed your thread. Just finished repainting, repairing and restringing my duck decoys for next season which gave me some shop time for other pursuits. I also thought about putting together some fly boxes. These are just made of some red birch i had laying around. I wanted to workout hinge and jig issues. Fun project. Here are the results of my R & D.

http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q787/fubar1957/P1000146_zpsdaa1befe.jpg

[DLJeff]

Wow! Very nice work. Do you do your engraving or do you have a company that does it? Is that lazer engraved?

[Jim May]

Fubar,
Nice work I think you have way to much free time on your hands soss hinges on your boxes and repainting decoys now!!! you've got 9 months to do that.By the way Joe Dirt is my hero!
Jim May

[jbird]

Wow! Are you sure you didnt buy those? ;) I second Dougs question about the engraving?? 4 mighty magnets! Keep your fingers clear! These are really nice. Great job. :)

[Fubar]

The engraving was done by a buddy of mine who has a laser engraver. He may be moving out of state next summer so i could be loosing that source. Working on some other ideas as to dress them up a bit. I wondered if the magnets were overkill also. They are 3/16" so there are pretty small, you could probably get by with just one set but its nice and solid. I would be willing to post pictures of the stages on the build up these boxes if anyone is interested. I was able to crank out 6 boxes in one day, less the finish time.

Nice boxes Jay Bird. The wood you are using is amazing, is it local ?

[jbird]

The Myrtle wood is native to the PNW and Mango wood is Hawaiian. Local, no. Domestic, yes. Tho I do believe its classified as "Exotic"

[Morgan]

Love the work guys!
I look forward to seeing these in the classifieds when i get back from my trip in April.
They would make great gifts to display on the mantle.

[Andy Guibord]

Very nice. Do you sell them? Perhaps you can consign them at the fly shops.

[BillB]

I'm game Fubar! Post away. Always looking for ways to do nice router work without jeopardizing my clumsy fingers.

[Fubar]

Cut blanks to size. I made my blanks 3/16" larger than the foam inserts, you can certainly make the box walls thicker if you desire.
http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q787/fubar1957/P1000120_zps8a4e1ab2.jpg

I made a jig that fit a Wheatley fly box inserts (except for the extra meat needed for hinges). There are different sizes and styles. I chose the 6" easy grip. You will have to do a minor bit of foam trimming where the hinges are located. I placed cleats on the backside of the jig that holds that holds the blank over the routing pattern. Place the blank in the jig and trace the router pattern.
http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q787/fubar1957/P1000123_zpsa5f43266.jpg

Remove from jig and hog it out with a forstner bit. This saves a lot of time and wear on router bits.
http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q787/fubar1957/P1000121_zpsd4fe9614.jpg

Place back into the jig to complete the routing.
http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q787/fubar1957/P1000127_zps61a412ac.jpg

1/4" round over all outer edges and if you look closely there in a 1/16" 45 degree chamfer on the hinge side of the box. This is needed to allow the box to open completely.
http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q787/fubar1957/P1000131_zps9c15a60f.jpg

I sanded and finished my boxes before drilling a 10mm hole for the hinges and 3/16" hole for magnets.
http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q787/fubar1957/P1000132_zps8c65fc70.jpg

Press in hinges, glue in magnets. Im sure i forgot something but i cant think of any thing else. Its really a pretty fast project.

[DLJeff]

Beauty and thanks for psting that and taking the pictures to go along with it. I can use that same process for making folding travel cribbage boards with room for a deck of cards and pegs inside. Would you route out an area for a veneer insert if you went that way - or would you glue on a full size veneer and then glue on a border?

[Fubar]

Great idea! It would make an awesome folding cribbage board.


Would you route out an area for a veneer insert if you went that way - or would you glue on a full size veneer and then glue on a border?

Im not exactly sure what your asking? sorry I'm kinda slow.

[jbird]

Thank you for the step by step. I like the way you bore it out on the drill press. I just stepped the depth up on the router in incriments. I guess neither way is easier. I oughta do one out of cedar or redwood one of these days just to experience the joy of soft wood. LOL I was thinking about doing some your way, but making multiple jigs along one long piece of ply. Clamp it to a 6'-8' length of stock and just move down the line and bore out 10 or 12 cavities in one session. Then just cut the boxes out on the chop saw. Whare are you getting your hinges if you dont mind me asking?

I have been playing around lately and working out some bugs in my own fly box design. Heres a few.

these are 4X6's waiting for a final polish and hardware.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/jbird35/JDS_2102_zpsef2faac5.jpg

Heres two completed 3X5's

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/jbird35/JDS_2109_zps9320544e.jpg

[BillB]

Thanks Fubar! Like removing most of the material with the Forestner. That would make the routing less tedious and faster.

Jay talking about soft wood, I made some bit boxes for my brad points from poplar. A big mistake! I had incredible issues with stability. The boxes would shrink and swell with the changes in weather. Got so bad that the lid wouldn't close in damp weather. I always thought poplar was really stable.

[Fubar]

Whare are you getting your hinges if you dont mind me asking?

Rockler or Woodcraft sell them online, and both have franchises all over the country so there may be one nearby. The hinges are 1/2" and require a 10mm brad point drill bit. They are called a barrel or concealed hinge.

Nice work on those boxes, awesome!