Auburn Journal Article on FlyFishermen by JD Richey?

[BillT]

Does anyone have any thoughts about this article by JD Richey that was recently published in his column in the Auburn Journal? http://www.auburnjournal.com/article/outdoors-down-fluff-chuckers

I'm curious what you think.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

If you read it slowly he is not down on fly fishers himself, but some of the people he meets are.

I think some are put off by anything that is different from them.

First off we let our fish go so that is probably strange to some conventional anglers.

Some local conventional anglers over on the coast don't like fly fishers either.

.

[Joe Mateas]

I agree wit the article(alot of gear fishers don't like fly guys), it seems you can always see the snobs of every sport alot better than the live and let live guy. But thats the way these people want to be seen, they think they're better than all others most of the time even the others participating in the same sport they are. Every sport has their eliteist snobs and things will never change in that department but it's unfortunate an entire group of sportsmen are judged by the few negative people that participate in the same sport. If people think flyfishers are snobs what about bass guys, I know I was a bass junkie for years and only made a very small number of friends in the sport just because I couldn't stand most of the guys "I'm better than you" attitude. But in the end I couldn't care less if someone doesn't like what I do, I'd be willing to bet not too many guys on the water would tell me to my face so they'e opinin isn't worth much to me anyway. I do know I have met more good and extremely helpfull people since I picked the fly rod back up about 2 years ago than I did in the 6-7 years I was chasing bass.

[BillT]

Thanks for the comments guys... I hope others comment too. I'm particularly interested in whether or not the article offended any of you...

[JasonB]

I read the article, and I would hardly say that it could hardly be considered offensive to anyone but someone with very thin skin. I think it made some accurate, if cliche, assessments about the elitist attitude that does exist in some areas of our sport. I imagine that we've all run into it from time to time.

My only critique, if that's what you're curious for, would be that I thought the article really was pretty surface oriented; it never really went as far as I think it could have in making comment about elitism, or being judgmental. It might also have been nice to make some attempt to understand or distinguish between aesthetics and personal style preferences versus elitist or snobbish attitudes. To me, I love fly fishing over gear or bait fishing primarily for the aesthetics; but it doesn't mean that I think less of someone who doesn't fish "my way". The other thing that the article failed to address is that one of the biggest sources of Fly line anglers perhaps seeing themselves in a bit different league is the whole C+R low impact mentality of fly fishing versus the kind of impact that ***some*** bait and gear anglers have on a fishery. I don't think you can really talk about, or compare different tackle and fishing styles without at least a cursory mention about opinions on Catch and Release fishing and fish mortality rates from various types of tackle.

I pretty much don't care HOW anyone fishes, nearly as much as how well they treat the water they fish, the fish they catch (or don't), and other anglers and people they encounter. Looking down at some "elitist snob" with a fly rod and all the designer label gear (tags possibly still hanging) isn't really so different from looking down at someone as a "neanderthal gear chucker" type. It's VERY easy to judge others, their techniques, tackle, or style and put them in a category beneath you; a bit harder to find and appreciate the similarities we might have. Ironic when you consider that to outsiders we're all doing EXACTLY the same thing: fishing!
Thanks for sharing the link
JB

[Mike O]

I totally think many, if not most, FFers look down on gear guys, and/or anyone who doesn't release, especially "trophy" fish. I also think that gear guys don't do enough to rid themselves of the knuckledragging image.

[BillT]

I read the article, and I would hardly say that it could hardly be considered offensive to anyone but someone with very thin skin. I think it made some accurate, if cliche, assessments about the elitist attitude that does exist in some areas of our sport. I imagine that we've all run into it from time to time.

My only critique, if that's what you're curious for, would be that I thought the article really was pretty surface oriented; it never really went as far as I think it could have in making comment about elitism, or being judgmental. It might also have been nice to make some attempt to understand or distinguish between aesthetics and personal style preferences versus elitist or snobbish attitudes. To me, I love fly fishing over gear or bait fishing primarily for the aesthetics; but it doesn't mean that I think less of someone who doesn't fish "my way". The other thing that the article failed to address is that one of the biggest sources of Fly line anglers perhaps seeing themselves in a bit different league is the whole C+R low impact mentality of fly fishing versus the kind of impact that ***some*** bait and gear anglers have on a fishery. I don't think you can really talk about, or compare different tackle and fishing styles without at least a cursory mention about opinions on Catch and Release fishing and fish mortality rates from various types of tackle.

I pretty much don't care HOW anyone fishes, nearly as much as how well they treat the water they fish, the fish they catch (or don't), and other anglers and people they encounter. Looking down at some "elitist snob" with a fly rod and all the designer label gear (tags possibly still hanging) isn't really so different from looking down at someone as a "neanderthal gear chucker" type. It's VERY easy to judge others, their techniques, tackle, or style and put them in a category beneath you; a bit harder to find and appreciate the similarities we might have. Ironic when you consider that to outsiders we're all doing EXACTLY the same thing: fishing!
Thanks for sharing the link
JB

Hi JB... thanks for your comments. I'm curious because the article was deemed "offensive to fly fishermen" by a guy that I have long called a friend, and I didn't find it to be offensive either, but then I consider myself "multifishual" and I've been trying for years to get all anglers to work together to "protect, connect, and restore" cold water fisheries in the Sierra. BillT

[BillT]

Thanks for noting that point Bill... I actually thought it was pretty tactfully written, considering the topic... I'm probably what most people might consider a "conventional angler", but I fly fish too, because I really like to "catch" fish, and flies can be the best option at times. By the way, I also release most of what I catch and I'd like to see more emphasis being placed on teaching all anglers how to "release" fish in the least harmful ways possible. Do you know of any store or group that is actively teaching how to catch and release properly?

[BillT]

Thanks JB, if you liked giving this topic some thought, you might also like to read this recent post: http://troutunlimitedblog.com/debate-is-fly-fishing-the-most-noble-way-to-catch-trout/

[JasonB]

Hi JB... thanks for your comments. I'm curious because the article was deemed "offensive to fly fishermen" by a guy that I have long called a friend, and I didn't find it to be offensive either, but then I consider myself "multifishual" and I've been trying for years to get all anglers to work together to "protect, connect, and restore" cold water fisheries in the Sierra. BillT

Well like I said, I think you'd have to be pretty thin skinned to be "offended" by the article. I can see why some fly anglers might take some exception to the article; in particular due to some of the reasons I listed, it could well be viewed as one sided or at the least an incomplete comment on the perceptions of fly fishers. As for your last statement: good on ya! I imagine that will prove to be a tough process at times. I think one of the big hurdles, and one that wasn't addressed in the article, is the difference in motives/ethics between the catch and keep set and the catch and release folks. Along with that comes the whole issue of which types of tackle, and or technique are most devastating to the fish... a big can o worms if you'll pardon the pun.
JB

[Ralph]

I thought the article was pretty accurate. There ARE some pretty pompous and arrogant fly fishers out there who make a point of being self righteous about "their" sport. You would be hard pressed however, to find any group of people who don't have that sub set. Wine drinkers have their wine snobs and eaters have their foodies.

[CEM]

When I was fourteen, the man that introduced my father and I to flyfishing said, "Chuck, you will find that flyfisherman can be their own worst enemies". It took years for me to understand what he meant, but after I did, I was reminded of what he said from time to time as I encountered anglers who for what ever reason thought that only "they" had the right answer as to how the sport of fishing should be conducted.
Chuck

[JohnD]

Meh, if you're older than 13, not fishing for subsistence, and "baiting up a hook with nightcrawlers or roe" I'm going to look down on you. Call me elitist if you want. Other than that I don't care much what you do so long as you aren't a slob fisherman that treats the resources poorly.
There are certainly fly-fishermen that are very snobby. And I don't visit the fly shop closest to my house because they have always given off the impression that if you aren't taking one of their trips to Patagonia, etc you're not worth their time. But for the most part we're decent folk.

[Ed Wahl]

"Meh, if you're older than 13, not fishing for subsistence, and "baiting up a hook with nightcrawlers or roe" I'm going to look down on you. Call me elitist if you want."

How about someone older than 13 drifting crickets for trout?

Maybe using a fly rod to do it?

Ed

[Scott Thornley]

Hello Mr. Pot.


Meh, if you're older than 13, not fishing for subsistence, and "baiting up a hook with nightcrawlers or roe" I'm going to look down on you. Call me elitist if you want.

Meet Mr. Kettle:


There are certainly fly-fishermen that are very snobby... But for the most part we're decent folk.

You share the same color scheme... ;) ;)

[JohnD]

"Meh, if you're older than 13, not fishing for subsistence, and "baiting up a hook with nightcrawlers or roe" I'm going to look down on you. Call me elitist if you want."

How about someone older than 13 drifting crickets for trout?

Maybe using a fly rod to do it?

Ed

You want me to be diplomatic and say no? What's the point of that? If I walk by you on the river and you're using live bait for trout ,even on a fly rod, (hell ESPECIALLY on a fly rod) I'm going to shake my head.
I'd rather you toss power bait to a pod of fresh hatchery fish than use live bait on wild fish - with a few exceptions.

CA is a crowded place and wild trout are a scarce commodity. Seeing someone gut-hook a big beautiful fish on a lump of power-bait makes me queasy. Hell, a few years back Ralph blasted me on this very board for just taking a photo of truckee brown that appeared to show the fish up on the bank. No one accused him of being a snob. Just concerned about a resource he felt strongly about.

[JohnD]

Hello Mr. Pot.



Meet Mr. Kettle:



You share the same color scheme... ;) ;)

I don't consider that very snobby, but YMMV.

[left field]

Hell, a few years back Ralph blasted me on this very board for just taking a photo of truckee brown that appeared to show the fish up on the bank. No one accused him of being a snob. Just concerned about a resource he felt strongly about.

I've always been curious about those pictures - a fish alongside rod and reel. Are these kept fish? Dead fish? If not, how the hell do you get the fish to pose? The ones that I bring to hand are flopping al over the place.

As a newish fly fisher it has been drummed into my head that - OMG! Wet your hands! Hold him gently! Keep his head in the water! - is the only way to handle a fish. Laying a fish on the ground while you set up a shot seems a little contradictory to a safe return to the water.

[Darian]

Not sure whether this thread was started as a troll by the originator or not. If so, it caught a bunch. If not, it sure looks like a long winter.... ;)

[JohnD]

I've always been curious about those pictures - a fish alongside rod and reel. Are these kept fish? Dead fish? If not, how the hell do you get the fish to pose? The ones that I bring to hand are flopping al over the place.

As a newish fly fisher it has been drummed into my head that - OMG! Wet your hands! Hold him gently! Keep his head in the water! - is the only way to handle a fish. Laying a fish on the ground while you set up a shot seems a little contradictory to a safe return to the water.

The trick I learned was that you lay them in very shallow water. Typically you don't see the water in the photo when you take the photo that way unless there is a glare. As for the fish staying still - I don't have an answer. Usually 75% of my shots are of a flopping fish.

[Ed Wahl]

John ole buddy, I wasn't looking for diplomacy, just honesty.

You've answered honestly and I thank you for that.

Your answer speaks volumes as to the original intent of Bill's post.

I could not have done it better if I tried.

Ed