Spearfishing for stripers

[Mike O]

Word I am hearing is that a spearfishing option for Freshwater and the salt passed the DFG process. Anyone else hear this? I can't find reference other than the rumor....

The only real fishery in this area, for diving/spearfishing is going to be the American below Nimbus, below the spawning area, due to water clarity among other issues. Tis opens another

[Randy Lee]

Mike,
Is there a spear and release technique applicable to our fisheries? LoL. Just another set back in striper conservation. Maybe we can fine tune a dynamite and release program. Who knows ,it might work!
Randy

[Mike O]

Nope...more of a spear and eat sorta thing

[Mr T]

Saw this on another site.

to read:
§ 27.85. Striped Bass.
(a) Open season: All year.
(b) Limit: Two.
(c) Minimum size:
(1) North of Pt. Conception, 18 inches total length.
(2) South of Pt. Conception, no minimum size limit.
(d) Methods of take: No striped bass may be taken while using a sinker weighing over
four pounds, or while using any power driven gurdy or winch. Striped bass may only be
taken by angling as defined in Section 1.05, Title 14, CCR, spearfishing pursuant to
Section 1.76, and bow and arrow fishing tackle; snagging is an illegal method of take.
Note: Authority cited: Sections 200, 202 and 205, Fish and Game Code. Reference:
Sections 200-202, 203.1, 205 and 220, Fish and Game Code.
Section 28.90, Title 14, CCR, is amended to read:
§ 28.90. Diving, Spearfishing.
Persons who are floating or swimming in the water may use spearfishing gear and skin
or SCUBA diving equipment to take fin fish other than giant (black) sea bass, garibaldi,
gulf grouper, broomtail grouper, trout, salmon, striped bass or broadbill, except that:
(a) No person may possess or use a spear within 100 yards of the mouth of any stream
in any ocean waters north of Ventura County.
(b) When spearfishing for or in possession of federal groundfish or associated species
as authorized pursuant to subsections 27.25(c)(4), 27.30(c)(4), 27.35(c)(4), 27.40(c)(3),
27.45(c)(4) or 27.50(c)(3), in an area or during a season closed to the take of these
species, no fishing gear except spearfishing gear may be aboard the vessel or
watercraft.
Note: Authority cited: Sections 200, 202, 7071 and 8587.1, Fish and Game Code.
Reference: Sections 205, 7071

[Mike O]

Yup..Saltwater OK, now FReshwater OK

[David Lee]

Saw this on another site.

to read:
§ 27.85. Striped Bass.
(a) Open season: All year.
(b) Limit: Two.
(c) Minimum size:
(1) North of Pt. Conception, 18 inches total length.
(2) South of Pt. Conception, no minimum size limit.
(d) Methods of take: No striped bass may be taken while using a sinker weighing over
four pounds, or while using any power driven gurdy or winch. Striped bass may only be
taken by angling as defined in Section 1.05, Title 14, CCR, spearfishing pursuant to
Section 1.76, and bow and arrow fishing tackle; snagging is an illegal method of take.
Note: Authority cited: Sections 200, 202 and 205, Fish and Game Code. Reference:
Sections 200-202, 203.1, 205 and 220, Fish and Game Code.
Section 28.90, Title 14, CCR, is amended to read:
§ 28.90. Diving, Spearfishing.
Persons who are floating or swimming in the water may use spearfishing gear and skin
or SCUBA diving equipment to take fin fish other than giant (black) sea bass, garibaldi,
gulf grouper, broomtail grouper, trout, salmon, striped bass or broadbill, except that:
(a) No person may possess or use a spear within 100 yards of the mouth of any stream
in any ocean waters north of Ventura County.
(b) When spearfishing for or in possession of federal groundfish or associated species
as authorized pursuant to subsections 27.25(c)(4), 27.30(c)(4), 27.35(c)(4), 27.40(c)(3),
27.45(c)(4) or 27.50(c)(3), in an area or during a season closed to the take of these
species, no fishing gear except spearfishing gear may be aboard the vessel or
watercraft.
Note: Authority cited: Sections 200, 202, 7071 and 8587.1, Fish and Game Code.
Reference: Sections 205, 7071

I'm not sure if I've EVER been this pissed-off in my life .

That there isn't 10 pages of fury and outrage on this forum over this subject makes me want to vomit almost as much as this insane new provision . How many years did we have to buy Striped Bass stamps in order to be legal? How many people (who shouldn't have had to ...) crawled thru the mud , filth , and stink at Prospect Island back in the Winter of 2006 to catch and release Stripers back into the Delta ? How many MILLIONS of dollars have we , and other folks like us .... spent chasing these wonderful Gamefish ??!!??

The California Department of Fish and Wildlife should make one more name change - the Department of Fishsticks and Fillets . Spearfishing in the open Pacific , where you have a reasonable chance of dyin' ?? Maybe . But , Spearfishing in the American (and if you don't think our big resident Stripes will be removed in one season , then you are stupid) ?

NO F%$#ING WAY .

David

[Slice]

What am I missing here? I read that as saying spear fishing for stripers is not allowed. It's ok to take fin fish "other than"...

Further...

Section 2.30 of the 2012-2013 Freshwater Sport Fishing Regulations states:

Spearfishing is permitted only in:
(a) The Colorado River District for carp, tilapia, goldfish and mullet, all year.
(b) The Valley District for carp, tilapia, goldfish, western sucker, Sacramento blackfish, hardhead, Sacramento pikeminnow and lamprey, from May 1 through September 15, except that no spearfishing is permitted in: (1) Shasta and Tehama counties (see Section Section 2.12).
(2) Butte Creek (Butte Co.).
(3) Feather River below Oroville Dam (Butte Co.).
(4) Designated salmon spawning areas (See Fish and Game Code Section 1505).

(c) The Kern River from the Kern-Tulare county line upstream to the Johnsondale Bridge for carp, goldfish, western sucker, hardhead and Sacramento pikeminnow, from May 1 through September 15.
(d) See bullfrogs (Section 5.05).

[David Lee]

What am I missing here? I read that as saying spear fishing for stripers is not allowed. It's ok to take fin fish "other than"...

Further...

Section 2.30 of the 2012-2013 Freshwater Sport Fishing Regulations states:

Spearfishing is permitted only in:
(a) The Colorado River District for carp, tilapia, goldfish and mullet, all year.
(b) The Valley District for carp, tilapia, goldfish, western sucker, Sacramento blackfish, hardhead, Sacramento pikeminnow and lamprey, from May 1 through September 15, except that no spearfishing is permitted in: (1) Shasta and Tehama counties (see Section Section 2.12).
(2) Butte Creek (Butte Co.).
(3) Feather River below Oroville Dam (Butte Co.).
(4) Designated salmon spawning areas (See Fish and Game Code Section 1505).

(c) The Kern River from the Kern-Tulare county line upstream to the Johnsondale Bridge for carp, goldfish, western sucker, hardhead and Sacramento pikeminnow, from May 1 through September 15.
(d) See bullfrogs (Section 5.05).

"Striped bass may only be
taken by angling as defined in Section 1.05, Title 14, CCR, spearfishing pursuant to
Section 1.76, and bow and arrow fishing tackle; snagging is an illegal method of take.
"

[Darian]

After reading what's been posted and the copy of the regs I have, I'm with Slice on this. I might be missing something but just don't see how anything was changed with regard to taking Stripers using Spearfishing gear in freshwater. I'm open to new info but it looks to me like spearfishing for Stripers in freshwater is still illegal. :confused:

[Darian]

OK,.... After checking on Blantons BB, it looks like this is a change in the regs that was recently adopted. However, it's not yet published. Wonder if it still has to go thru OAL review??? Also, who sponsored this change....??? At any rate, we really don't know what the change actually says until it's published. :(

[Darian]

Did some digging into the bowels of the commissions/departments files on this and find that the proposal to change the reg's was a request by the commission that DFG draft the changes to allow spearfishing in the Valley District. The request was, supposedly, based on suggestions from skin diving and fishing organizations. It was, apparently, unopposed. Check out the link to a pdf that provides a late version of the proposed change:

http://www.fgc.ca.gov/regulations/2012/27_85isor.pdf

Note that the Department expressed concerns about making the proposed changes....

Still am unable to confirm whether this has actually been adopted or not.... :confused:

[Mike McKenzie]

Here are the url's for the pdf files with regard to the inland Code (Sec.2.30) and Ocean (Code Sec.28.75 & 28.90) regulation changes made to allow spearfishing for striped bass...
Inland waters
http://www.fgc.ca.gov/regulations/2012/2_30regs.pdf

Ocean waters
http://www.fgc.ca.gov/regulations/2012/27_85regs.pdf
Here are the urls for Summary and response by the Commission

http://www.fgc.ca.gov/regulations/2012/sfinrec.pdf
Read the bottom of page 14 and the top of page 15 to see who requested the reg. changes

http://www.fgc.ca.gov/regulations/2012/sforec.pdf
Read the bottom of page 10 and see the second from the last organization listed and the first on page 11..Eye-opener??

As you read both reg changes had two options;
1- No harvest of striped bass.
2- Harvest of striped bass.

Because there was virtually no spoken or written opposition,The Option 2 (Allow harvest) was approved on a unanimous vote by the Commission on the 7th of Nov. in both the Ocean and the Valley Districts. You can now spearfish for striped in the Ocean the Delta and its tributary rivers except in salmon and steelhead spawning areas.

Here's the list of the waters closed to spearfishing from F&G Code Section 1505
The Sacramento River between Keswick and Squaw Hill Bridge, near Vina.
The Feather River between Oroville and the mouth of Honcut Creek.
The Yuba River between Englebright Dam and a point approximately four miles east of Marysville.
The American River between Nimbus Dam and a point one mile downstream from Arden Way.
The Mokelumne River between Pardee Dam and Lockeford.
The Stanislaus River between Goodwin Dam and Riverbank.
The Tuolumne River between La Grange Dam and the Geer Road (J14)Bridge.
The Merced River between Crocker Huffman Dam and Cressey.

In other words, protection everywhere but where the big striped bass females live..
What the course of action we take will be announced as soon as we can come up a well defined, well informed action. We have to use strong science and well reasoned arguments in what ever we do because knee-jerk reactionary stuff will not work.

Mike

[Darian]

What the hey???? The California Striped Bass Association was a sponsor of this change???? That pretty much dooms any attempt to use them for challenge. I can't believe that CSBA accepts our monetary donations and participates in stuff like this. Any plans to demand an explanation???

[David Lee]

Having a chat w/ the csba on Facebook -

"The decision to support the spear fisherman was more of a political decision. We would then have more alllies in Sacramento when agriculture and DWR attempt to de-regulate striped bass. The reality of the situation is that in the delta and bay where striped bass spend most of their lives, the water is too murky for spear fishing of any kind. Rhe bottom line effect on the striped bass fishery will be minimal while the political effect could be major. I hope this explains the situation and you will continue to support us. Jim Cox President West Delta CSBA."

I think maybe they haven't been swimming or fishing in the American ....

D.~

[Darian]

Interesting rationale. I'm all for building alliances but, unless there was some written agreement involved, don't see how CSBA gained much here. Since many spearfishers are also gear/fly fishers. Where were the spearfishers when DFG attempted to decease the size and increase take/possession limits last year??? The stealthy way the alliance/proposal was brought up for discussion by CSBA prior to adoption, makes me suspicious about the motives involved.

Aside from the obvious problem for large Striped Bass in rivers, I would think that there's going to be some potentially serious conflicts between bankies and divers in places where Stripers congregate (like Shanghai Bend)....

I congratulate the spearfishers in this. They gained something for their membership but I'll be re-thinking why/how, if at all, I support CSBA in the future. :(

[David Lee]

Using the same 'logic' .... why not get Stripes listed as a commercial fish ? I'm sure the dozen or so folks spreading miles of gillnets out will be great Friends for the resource .....

If populations are down - remove fewer fish . Common sense .

Slot limit - say ..... 2 fish between 20 inches and 38 inches . Leave the dinks to spawn once or twice , and leave the big breeders alone . Common sense .

"The stealthy way the alliance/proposal was brought up for discussion by CSBA prior to adoption, makes me suspicious about the motives involved." - California politics in action !

I think I need to distance myself from this one , what is left of my sanity could use a break before vacation .

D.~

[Darian]

I can't see where making the decision to support this change contributes to conservation and enhancement of Striped Bass as the CSBA website professes to support. One of the statements from the CSBA website encourages all Striper tournaments to use catch & release to reduce impacts and conserve the resource. How hypocritical!!! :(

[David Lee]

One of the statements from the CSBA website encourages all Striper tournaments to use catch & release to reduce impacts and conserve the resource. How hypocritical!!! :(

More from my chat w/ csba on Facebook this morning -


"In my home waters of the bay night fishing is not allowed from a boat, like it is east of the Carquines bridge. I could just as easily say that night fisherman have a large effect on the striped bass fishery and should be restricted. Instead I put my efforts into enhancing the opportunity for all fisherman to attempt to catch their legal catch by the means they enjoy, be that fly fishing,bait fishing, trolling, drifting, bait casting, or spear fishing. If all fishermam joined together to fight the real causes of the fisheries decline there would be plenty of fish for all to catch."

--" Instead I put my efforts into enhancing the opportunity for all fisherman to attempt to catch their legal catch by the means they enjoy"-- I have to assume that 'legal catch' means legal LIMIT .

Hook and line harvest the cause of the population crash ?? Nope , that would be water export . That said ..... if populations are down , take fewer . Pretty simple , eh ?

D.~

[Mike O]

I don't support overharvest, but I do support harvest. If one wants to eat a fish, under a legal limit, the one should do do, regardless of gear used. One should not limit out just for limiting's sake.

[Mike McKenzie]

Having a chat w/ the csba on Facebook -

"The decision to support the spear fisherman was more of a political decision. We would then have more alllies in Sacramento when agriculture and DWR attempt to de-regulate striped bass. The reality of the situation is that in the delta and bay where striped bass spend most of their lives, the water is too murky for spear fishing of any kind. Rhe bottom line effect on the striped bass fishery will be minimal while the political effect could be major. I hope this explains the situation and you will continue to support us. Jim Cox President West Delta CSBA."
I think maybe they haven't been swimming or fishing in the American ....
D.~

I talked with the President of the CSBA State Board last night. I asked him if they had thought about the consequences this reg would have on the large female stripers (many of which reside in the tributary rivers to the Delta year around)during spawning and the fact that they could potentially be wiped out within a couple of years. Also, that once the word gets out more than "just a few" divers that like to "hunt" for fish with spear-guns will be doing it. All the folks that are now "subsistence fishing" will be all over this, getting their daily limit of two striped bass and the large females will be the prime target.

The answer I got was "stunned silence" then a bunch of double talk about not "remembering" the exact conversations they had when the State Board voted for supporting this reg change. He said that he'd have go back though their "meeting minutes" and get back to me on Monday. I think Jim Cox's statement (President of the West Delta Chapter CSBA) makes it really clear that they did not think this through at all. Pure stupidity, IMHO! If they think that they'll get any support from the striped bass fishing community there is not rational thinkin' goin' on there!

Mike

[Darian]

Mike McK,.... I certainly agree with your thoughts and thank you for the info you posted earlier and you efforts on this.

Mike O.,.... I think we might have an area of agreement in this (YIKES!!!!). I too support legal harvest by legal means and safety in doing so. I know that you're a diver and respect the spearfishers request for the change as they did nothing to misrepresent their position.

My problem with CSBA is the manner in which it was carried out (stealthy) and the fact that they apparently encourage catch & release fishing for everyone but themselves. Should know better as CSBA's sponsor page reflects almost all bay area charter/party boat operators and other commercials as sponsors. That in itself isn't bad but it appears that we (including me) have misjudged who we should've placed our trust in to protect the resource (e.g. Stripers).

Finally, I do believe that this change will result in some major conflicts in areas where divers and bankies (in particular) are fishing the same waters. Since many of our counterparts don't respect the need for room, now, just imagine what will happen when we're all occupying the same waters. Every AM at the head of "last chance" riffle a couple of gear guys plant themselves and claim the entire riffle while bait/drift fishing. These guys are obnoxious to the point of causing some incidents at times. Now, think about how that attitude translates to an area like the Feather River at Shanghai Bend, the Lower American or Yuba.

Wonder how long it will be before the survivalists (spell that homeless) along the lower American pick up on this I can't imagine they'll try to distinguish between Salmon, Steelhead and Stripers....

[bart]

Darian.I have been a member of CSBA since 1980.I started the expanshion to the point that we had 9 chapters and about 2000 members.
I was director of all chapt. for a number of years.The org.that you see today is a totally different group.They may now have 500mem.
I also sat on the org striper stamp.For many years untill i steped down,csba was the only people fighting for stripers on a daily effort,and we gained a lot of support from the dept.Now there are only afew guys in csba that care about doing the work that it takes to keep thatreputation.I have worked with Mike ever since he came on the stamp comm.Like i told Mike,i missed this completely.I knew that some diver was asking to spear in Black Butte Resv..I take responceability for missing this.I have been trying to retire from the political stuff and working part time for allied fishing group.I am very proud of the things we did,untill i stepped down.Mike can fill you in about me.

[Slice]

As previously brought up, there is a limit for stipers. People catch and keep them with hooks, legally. I have to doubt our waters will be flooded with with speafisherman. Im curious to see what the "limited areas" referred to actually are. Black Butte lake? Have a ball swimming around in there, spearfishing there seems more challanging than soaking bait with a beer in hand.

There is also the alphabetical list of waters with special fishing regulations which includes the A... Does a spear count as a barbless hook? This governs over method of take. (funny side note I saw in one of the topics brought up someone wanted to introduce the slingshot as an approved method of take, it was of course rejected)

Not a spearfisherman or trying to start an argument but I just think this may be a bit premature. I havent seen exactly what waters this ruling affects.

[Darian]

Bart,.... I hope what I've written so far hasn't offended you. I don't have any hard feelings about individuals in this. of course, organizations change as the membership and officers change. Sometimes for the worst. As in most organizations, there're do'ers and passive members. I thank you for the info you provided on the screens at the pumps in the Delta. That was very helpful in visioning what was happening down there.

Slice,.... I think there's a listing of the waters not involved in the documents in links posted my Mike McKenzie, earlier. Essentially, everything in the valley district, with the exception of Salmon/Steelhead Spawning areas appears to be open for Spearfishing under this change. To add a bit to your post, I think the change includes enabling use of bow and arrow for taking striped Bass, as well.

The largest, oldest and most fecund of the Striped Bass population in the valley appear to reside year around in the clear water rivers/streams as evidenced by catches publicized over the last decade. Virtually all of the largest Stripers come from the lower American, Lower Feather and Sacramento rivers, and San Luis Forebay/Reservoir. Spearfishers like to target large fish. These large Stripers are the spawners and no match for a spearfisher armed with a Hawaian Sling or a spear gun. I hope you're correct about their lack of interest. Otherwise, it'll be a long time before large Stripers appear on the west coast scene again. :confused:

[Mike McKenzie]

[QUOTE=Slice;125590] I have to doubt our waters will be flooded with with spearfisherman.[QUOTE]

Slice, IMHO you're wrong and do not understand the dynamics of the market fishing (poachers) and the
subsistence fishers. Both will do whatever they can to increase their take, especially the bigger stripers. Ask any enforcement Warden in the Delta about the "Mosquito Fleet"! There will be a large interest in spear fishing within those communities!

[QUOTE=Darian;125593] I think the change includes enabling use of bow and arrow for taking striped Bass, as well.[QUOTE]

Darian, Bow and arrows can only be used in Ocean waters not allowed in Inland waters...

Mike

[Darian]

In trying to find the source of the proposal to change the regs, beyond that of CSBA, I found that spearfishers were represented by a group named the Waterman's Alliance (WA). This organization made the formal proposal on the part of divers. A copy of the letter to the F&G Commission can be viewed in the link to a BB provided below. WA, apparently, enlisted the support of CSBA thru Joshua R., a person who may be a member of WA and who represents himself as a member of CSBA Isleton Chapter around February 2011. Joshua made a presentation to CSBA on spearfishing for Stripers in that time frame. A lot of info about how this came about and the sentiments of the spearfishers is contained in this link:

http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=140737

There are a couple of references in the posts on Spearboard that indicate DFG would not be an obstacle in proposing a change to the regs. The proposal, itself, was very brief and without any economic/scientific analysis supporting it. The same appears to be true of the CSBA request. Guess the timing was right.... At any rate, it appears the Spearfishers were playing with a straight deck but spearfishing in the ocean is a very different thing than in confined areas in freshwater. Since adoption of the change was recent, unopposed and gained unanimous approval, it will be difficult to modify. Maybe we could negotiate a change to allow spearfishing for Stripers in the ocean in exchange for relief in freshwater.... :(

[Slice]

Slice, IMHO you're wrong and do not understand the dynamics of the market fishing (poachers) and the
subsistence fishers. Both will do whatever they can to increase their take, especially the bigger stripers. Ask any enforcement Warden in the Delta about the "Mosquito Fleet"! There will be a large interest in spear fishing within those communities!

Mike, Im sure i dont, my Knowledge of poaching is limited to what I glean from Wild Justice and what I see on the banks... Unemployed people soaking bait without a permit and hiding their catch. I suppose the market Poacher may take a more agressive approach. Keep us posted on the progress. I am curious to see a more clearly defined list of inland waters. Seems like the american, sac, feather, etc are off the approved list. Somewhat seems limited to lakes. The delta? Thanks, jim

[Darian]

Jim,.... I'm not sure I agree that the rivers you cite as not being on the approved list in the change. The language of the adopted change does seem to exempt Butte Creek and the Feather but parts of the American, Sacramento and Yuba are definitely included. If you read section 1505 of the F&G Code, it defines Salmon spawning areas in each river. For example, the code defines the Salmon spawning area on the American as starting approximately 4 miles above the mouth of the river. Each of the rivers named appears to have a lower section where Spearfishing for Stripers will be allowed. Looks to me like all rivers, lakes and reservoirs where Stripers live within the valley district, unless specifically listed, the delta and SF Bay will be open for spearfishing. :confused:

[briansII]

Jim,.... I'm not sure I agree that the rivers you cite as not being on the approved list in the change. The language of the adopted change does seem to exempt Butte Creek and the Feather but parts of the American, Sacramento and Yuba are definitely included. If you read section 1505 of the F&G Code, it defines Salmon spawning areas in each river. For example, the code defines the Salmon spawning area on the American as starting approximately 4 miles above the mouth of the river. Each of the rivers named appears to have a lower section where Spearfishing for Stripers will be allowed. Looks to me like all rivers, lakes and reservoirs where Stripers live within the valley district, unless specifically listed, the delta and SF Bay will be open for spearfishing. :confused:

That's the way I understand it too. My biggest concern is not spearfishing in the ocean, lakes, or the Delta, but the valley rivers. They will be much easier targets there. Once the word gets out, it could have a devastating effect on the spawning population. Doesn't take a genius to figure what happens from there.

If that wasn't enough to make you angry, finding out who brought and backed the proposal is enough to make you see RED!!!

briansII

[Darian]

Wonder if anyone (divers/DFG/us) has considered what will happen when spearfishers are in Delta waters and the pumps at tracy start up?? Since the currents are very strong, could a diver potentially end up in danger of being sucked into diversion screens along the channels?? My diving experiences happened so long ago, I don't have much of a feel for this. :confused:

[Mike O]

Don't think the Delta will be much of an issue...water clarity isn't as good as other places...the lower American, below the "spawning area", i.e. a mile below Arden, is.

[Darian]

Mike O,.... Do you have any sense about the level of interest on the part of spearfishers in taking advantage of this change??? The requesting groups and DFG cursory analysis(?) said that they didn't see any major impact on the resource (Striped Bass population) as a result of the change.... :confused:

[Mike McKenzie]

Mike O,.... Do you have any sense about the level of interest on the part of spearfishers in taking advantage of this change??? The requesting groups and DFG cursory analysis(?) said that they didn't see any major impact on the resource (Striped Bass population) as a result of the change.... :confused:

Darian,
I've talked to Joshua Russo and his best guess there may be 30-40 people from the Diving groups that asked for the change (Mostly divers that live closer to the inland locations than the Coast.) The problem is that no one considered the impact of the other folks that will become divers once they find out they can do it (Subsistence fishers, Market fishers (Poachers) etc. They are the ones that will have the largest impact because they will be out every day in who knows how many numbers, all gettin' their two fish limits, sometimes several times a day!
The big females will be gone in no time.

Mike M... ( not O ) :)

[Darian]

Mike M,.... I kinda think that Russo's estimate is well under the actual number of legal spearfishers that will take advantage of this. I know there're several members of this BB community that are spearfishers and live here in Sacramento. Also, there's a number of dive shops here/surrounding communities that promote spearfishing. And, as you've noted, that number of legal/illegals will increase until the large Stripers are gone. Then interest will decline and the illegals will just transfer their attention to other available fish. So, in my mind, the impacts from this change will go beyond that of Stripers. What a can of worms this is.... :(

[OceanSunfish]

Darian,
I've talked to Joshua Russo and his best guess there may be 30-40 people from the Diving groups that asked for the change (Mostly divers that live closer to the inland locations than the Coast.) The problem is that no one considered the impact of the other folks that will become divers once they find out they can do it (Subsistence fishers, Market fishers (Poachers) etc. They are the ones that will have the largest impact because they will be out every day in who knows how many numbers, all gettin' their two fish limits, sometimes several times a day!
The big females will be gone in no time.

Mike M... ( not O ) :)

In reading a little from the forum for spearfisherman, it appears that they hold themselves in high regard, for example, they do less harm since they are able to select what they 'take', etc. Unfortunately, they completely overlooked all the opportunists! This is just another example of another special interest group seeking favorable legislation without looking outside their own community. Now I'm sure the 30-40 could very well be personally responsible enough to practice the sport in the spirit of the law....... Unfortunately, the rest don't "roll" that way.

What an absolute beaut this is.......

The "mosquito fleet" is going submersible now! But in all fairness, those that know the demographics of the American River Parkway know all too well, that "shooting" striped bass will go well beyond the "mosquito fleet" if this actually is allowed.....

[Fish Guru]

I am blown away that this has happened! We have already seen a dramatic drop in large stripers over the last few years from night poaching and harvesters learning how to use certain live baits to catch large, and now this! These new asinine regulations are going to be especially problematic on the lower American and to a lesser degree the feather river. The American is more often than not quite clear and one could easily locate the big females if they desire to do so. Even more problematic is the fact that the bigger stripers seem to be relatively tolerant of divers/ snorkelers in close proximity to them. Once the harvesters catch wind that its ok to spear them, these fish are in big trouble. The only ones that will be safe will be the residents that inhabit the upper stretches of the river, and even these will be in trouble as I'm fairly certain the harvesters will stretch the boundaries. Truly a shame that it has come to this, and mind boggling that some naive folks think that people won't exploit the new regs. It's very saddening to have seen things declining at the rate they have been, this bs is just going to further expedite the process. To think otherwise is foolishly optimistic.

[Mike McKenzie]

This whole Reg change came about, kind of under the radar, through a lack of vigilance on our part and not by anyone scheming to do so, That said, I just wanted to let all know that the Allied Fishing Groups are havin' conversations with all the groups concerned, with an eye to coming to a mutually agree upon solution to the concerns everyone has with the new Regulations.

Please,be patient.

Mike

[Mike O]

a question regarding the fear of spearfishers taking the largest bass. can't that happen now with fishermen? no upper size limit, right? or is it just that fishermen are more altruistic and less likely to take large stripers home?

[Fish Guru]

a question regarding the fear of spearfishers taking the largest bass. can't that happen now with fishermen? no upper size limit, right? or is it just that fishermen are more altruistic and less likely to take large stripers home?

Sure, it can and does happen now with fisherman, more so with certain groups than others. But it can and will happen a lot faster with spearfisherman, especially if the harvester folks start to use spears. As I mentioned in my previous post, it's pretty easy to swim with the large fish, they are relatively fearless of humans when diving/ snorkeling. If those that already exploit the resource learn that they can spear thier fish now, it's pretty obvious that they will take the biggest ones. They will be able to take them at a much faster rate than what is caught with hook and line.
Look at it this way, a certain percentage of the large fish that are caught with hook and line are released to live another day. Last time I checked spear and release wasn't really an option, couple that with the ease to target large while diving and you have the large dissapearing at a faster rate than what is currently occurring.

[Darian]

Hmmm,.... Is our (fly fisher persons) effort in advocating limits altruistic??? Fair question and should be treated as serious even tho I think you already know the answer.

IMO, I suppose there's some altruism involved but for me it's more a matter of pragmatism as to limit the take of large Stripers is to allow them to reproduce so that we can catch them again and again. Do we target large Stripers on the fly the same as spearfishers??? Of course we do but most, not all, large fish are released. They're worth a lot more to local recreational fishing and related business alive than dead.

Killing Stripers is not something that I encourage simply because it would eliminate a great source of enjoyment in my life. Besides I can always catch/eat a hatchery bred Salmon or Steelhead (in season of course). Frankly, large Stripers are loaded with methyl-mercury and not very good table fare but they're exciting to catch. I certainly don't keep any Stripers I catch for that reason. So, why target them for the table??? They can be eaten but I suspect that most of them will end up in the flower garden or compost heap. :cool:

[Mike O]

Most spearos I know are concerned about merc. in fish as well. I know that if this opens, I am gonna target smaller fish...not due to merc, but because too much fish is a waste. Shoot what you gonna eat.

http://norcalunderwaterhunters.com/forum/index.php?topic=4942.0

As far as distance to fish, if the fish lets a spearo within 10 feet, and the fish is comfortable with that, turn out the lights

[Fish Guru]

Most spearos I know are concerned about merc. in fish as well. I know that if this opens, I am gonna target smaller fish...not due to merc, but because too much fish is a waste. Shoot what you gonna eat.

http://norcalunderwaterhunters.com/forum/index.php?topic=4942.0

As far as distance to fish, if the fish lets a spearo within 10 feet, and the fish is comfortable with that, turn out the lights

It's not the dedicated spearos like yourself that guys are worried about. And it's pretty easy to get well within 10 feet of the cow stripers in thier natural environment, simple logic should show you how much damage can be done to the breeding population in short order It seems like a pretty narrow minded agenda was used to push for these new regs, how the potential negative effects it can and will have on an already declining fishery were overlooked is beyond comprehension.

[Darian]

Maybe.... I just think this is one of those well intended ideas whose impacts weren't thought thru completely before proposing the change. In reading some of the official documents, I note that this proposal moved fairly quickly and quietly thru the adoption process without much in the way of analysis by DFG staff. Of course, they were directed to make the draft the options by the F&G Commission (one of which is a spearfisher, I believe).

At any rate, I think it's going to be a while before anything can be done to modify this change even if agreement is reached by all involved to do so. Once adopted, a regulation change is adopted, it's very difficult to change it. Especially if recently passed. So, I'm really hoping that Mike O is right and there will be little impact on the resource from this. :cool: