How important is your fly casting skill?

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

I always say that if all our customers all cast really well I would have retired years ago.

The meaning here is that they would have all caught more fish and became more addicted and spent more time fly fishing and thusly bought more fly fishing tackle....get it.

If you have time this winter when we are slow come in and see if we have time to go out and cast with you in the parking lot. It is always nice to get out and fly cast.

Our staff all cast really well because they travel and fly fish in the saltwater and for steelhead on larger rivers.

If you come in a watch someone like Adam Grace or Andy Guibord cast you will see what it is supposed to look like. They have obviously spent hundreds of hours fly casting so they can cast all different kinds of ways and make it look so easy...

I always recommend taking the time to improve your fly casting, that way the fishing is much easier and way more fun.

At the local fly club meetings they have some free casting help.

We have a bunch of local guys who teach fly casting.

We have DVD videos about fly casting too.

.

[Adam Grace]

Thank you for the compliment Bill :)

I have been very fortunate to have worked at Kiene's Fly Shop for about seven years in total and I have had casting mentors like Jeff Putnam, Andy, and Bill Kiene. In addition to my own mentoring I spent countless hours casting hundreds of fly rods during my tenure at Kiene's, which added to my own practice time. Like Jeff Putnam I am very intrigued by the "art" of fly casting, causing me to explore the technique in detail. For me, fly casting is fun and rewarding in-and-of-itself.

Line control is very important in fly fishing, the better you can control and manipulate the fly line the better you can reduce drag when fishing dries, obtain a more natural drag-free drift when nymphing and so on...... Aerial mending can be very effective! If you do not already perform aerial mending you might want to research how to, or ask a Kiene's employee for some tips. :)

Basically line control = more fish

[JGB]

Have never taken lessons, although have thought about it. Trying to unlearn bad habits might be futile... I do know that I can get my fly to where I want it 99% of the time. I'm probably not a great caster, but I might be a great drifter/mender?

Very rarely do I cast like whatshisface in "The Movie"...most of my trout casts are usually quick and short? False cast? Only to dry my fly, or get more line out.

Have spent time with some newbies introducing them to the sport. I usually stress that ffing is about line control - both in the air and on the water - not so much the aerialization(sp?) of the fly line. I usually stress what happens AFTER the cast.

It's kinda like pool and golf. You gotta make the shot, but what happens after you do that? What kind of spin did you put on the ball? Did it stay on the green? Where did you leave the cue ball after you sank your shot? Did you leave yourself a followup shot?


IMNSHO
JGB

[Troutstalker55B]

On stillwaters it's everything. The biggest handicap I see with clients is not being able to cast far enough. When we are fishing from the boat it is even more important to get out as far possible due to the fact the fish are usually shy about the boat leaving such a "foot print" on the surface. Accuracy is just as important, when an active rising fish is within casting range being able to drop the fly 2-3 feet in front of its path in a matter of seconds ends with a hook up most of the time. Practice, practice, practice.

[Ralph]

Just adding to Jon's comment about casting from a boat. Speed is often essential to put the fly where the fish is going to be rather than where it just was. Two false casts should be the maximum necessary when in normal fishing range. One false cast is even better. Keep the line neatly flaked at your feet when retrieving - don't sling it all over the deck. I usually fish barefoot so I can feel the line and not stand on it.
Practice loading the rod smoothly and quietly (no ripping) when sliding the line off the water. Shoot line into the backcast then drift. Drifting not only gives you a longer casting arc, it is a sure fire cure to creep which is one of the most common of all casting mistakes. Clean the line frequently so it slips through the guides with the least amount of friction. All the little things add up to sticking more fish at the end of the day.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Thanks Ralph and Jon....

I do hear this complant from guide who are trying to fly fish other methods than indicator nymphing in stream and on lakes.

We do hear back from guides when we have sent them someone who can cast well. They say something like, "Boy, that was really a fun day Bill. Those friends of yours could actually fly cast."

It doesn't take a lot of casting skill to fish indicators on a stream or lake and it doesn't take a lot of skill to troll in a float tube or pontoon boat.

It does take a lot of skill to sight cast to a moving fish in a lake or the saltwater flats, especially from a boat.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

The main reason we can all cast well at Kiene's started with the fact that we had help way back from our close friends at the shop like Walt Bennett, Al Perryman and Bob Giannoni who pioneered the Fenwick Fly Fishing Schools system back in the 1970s.

From that came talent like Jeff Putnam who actually teaches fly casting now full time.

The biggest single seperation is sucess in saltwater fly fishing is fly casting ability.

[JGB]

Was speaking to creek fishing...slow, or flat water fishing does demand long casts.

If your in warmer climes or boat-bound, bare foot is the only way to go, but if you're drifting for trout or steelhead...

Getting length FAST will separate the fishermen from the catchermen - on the salt in particular. Three back casts? Too late!

Ralph: (1) -"Shoot line into the backcast then drift." = ? Meaning set your forward cast up for an aerial mend? (2) - "...creep which is one of the most common of all casting mistakes." Elaborate please?

Thanx
JGB

[JohnD]

My problem isn't knowing what a good cast should look like......

[Ralph]

Ralph: (1) -"Shoot line into the backcast then drift." = ? Meaning set your forward cast up for an aerial mend? (2) - "...creep which is one of the most common of all casting mistakes." Elaborate please?
Thanx
JGB

1. Upon making the back cast, stop the rod as normal but let line run through your hand so that it feeds into the cast, thus lengthening it. After making the hard rod stop on the back cast, raise the rod up and backward.

If you watch good casters you'll notice the cast is actually broken into 4 distinct movements. Backcast, drift, forecast, and drift. At the end of the back and forecast the rod stops and loop is formed. The drift opens up the casting arc to provide a longer swing and increased line speed. Watch George in this video. The stops and drifts are subtle, but they are there if you watch for them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBKgdd6QA9g

2. Creep is when you start pushing the rod forward before the back cast is done. Even very good casters do it at times (you'll see George inadvertently creep several times in the video, but he catches and corrects himself). "Creep" allows you to feel the line easier, unfortunately it also eats up your casting arc (stroke) which of course decreases the amount of power you can apply. Creep also contributes to tailing loops, as many people punch the rod to make up for the lost arc.

[JGB]

Got #1 nailed, have to consider #2... A self-critique using an on-stream video device might be good.

Thanx
JGB

[gene goss]

The last fishout that i did for GBF at Davis Lake, i did a 2 hr. clinic on stillwater casting from a float tube in a wind, and on the water. Most of the people had a problem with staying in place with the tube and making a cast to a marked place. I think handling a float tube in a wind is a big part of making a good cast.
I don't think i ever seen a float tube casting class offered in the wind?

[Ralph]

Got #1 nailed, have to consider #2... A self-critique using an on-stream video device might be good.
Thanx
JGB

Just turn your head and watch the rod and backcast (be sure not to turn your shoulder though, it will change all the mechanics of the cast). If you find it hard to look back, wrap a piece of masking tape around the rod about 4 inches above the cork. You will be able to see it easily in your peripheral vision. Creep will be readily apparent.

[wineslob]

I probably make a ton of mistakes, but the trout don't seem to notice....:D

[Spicytuna1]

Its kinda like golf in a way, if you start with the right technique from the beginning then you have that much more going for you in the future.

Being 100% self taught for roughly 19 years there is a lot to learn and adjust to. The key factors I have found is to stop the rod at 12 on your back cast and wait, wait, wait for the line to layout behind you before coming forward.

The thing that has really brought my game up to speed is fishing the Delta you are making more cast in a day than you ever will in any river or still water in a day. Its pure casting no mends no drifts cast strip strip, cast strip strip etc...I always find myself throwing tighter loops and greater casts to trout after a few days on the Delta.

All in all if you start the right way your going to have much less frustration, tangles, snags, and that will allow for more time with your flies in the fishes face.

[TyV]

All due respect to Bill, the man. But his comment of "It doesn't take a lot of casting skill to fish indicators on a stream," strikes me as interesting.

I began fly fishing exclusively with dry flies many years ago and now fish 90% with an indicator due to very few waters where I have lived in recent years provide the opportunities to regularly catch size and numbers of fish. That being said, I have found the opposite of Bill's comment to be true. For me, casting an indicator with multiple split shot and multiple flies is 100 times more difficult and takes a ton more practice and skill than casting dries.

When casting dries now...it's kind of dreamy for me. I guess a loose analogy would be the baseball hitter that took off the dumbell for his preswing routine and now is much quicker, agile and accurate with his bat. That's certainly the case for me fly casting dry flies after an indo setup.

Maybe I missed something in the comment? I am just curious...is my experience different from everyone elses??? Would really like to know if everyone elses experiences are different from my own.

Again, all due respect to Bill and his experience...apologies as I am simply curious about a comment so different from my personal experience.

Cheers

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

You are right 'Fish On'.......casting all that 'junk' takes a while to learn to do well and some really good fly fishers are really good at that type of fly fishing..........very deadly.

__________________________________________________ ____________________

Why do 90% of the Nor Cal fly fishing guides have their clients fish 90% of the time with indicators?

Because it is the only way that they can consistanly get the average angler into enough fish to get them to come back.

If this is so it can't be too difficult to learn in one day with a good teacher.

I have been guided by no less than a dozen of Nor Cal best drift boat fly fishing guides with indictor all day long and was taught by the best how to do it. I can say that the results are sometimes wonderful but I don't feel compelled to fish that way now. I think it is wonderful way to get new people "hooked" though.

__________________________________________________ ____________________

At our shop we do not promote indicator but we do not 'poo poo' it either.

We promote fly casting and classic fly fishing methods.

We are the small group of people that are promoting classic fly fishing because we don't want it to lost.

__________________________________________________ ____________________

What is wild is that there are fairly new fly fishers who have never done anything but indicator fish for trout and steelhead and think that is all there is to fly fishing?

In the shop when I am talking with someone new about swing flies for Half-pounders on the river here in town with a floating line in the AM or PM they always ask me "where do they put the indiictor?" When I tell them it is not needed they look puzzeled and ask how will they know they have a take?, I tell them that it will be obvious....trust me.

My advise to the fly fisher who has been at it now for about 5 years or so with the indicator system and is now very good and catches as many fish a day as the conventional angler it might be time to move on to the next level.....classic old fashion fly fishing. Actually, many are doing that as we speak.....

Do you need to go to the Trinity River and catch 10 Steelhead a day with indicators?
Well, yes, maybe at first but after a while why not move to the next level and actually fly fish for them the old way?

If you have not noticed way more people are swinging flies now for steelhead than they were 10 years ago. It is kind of like it was way back when I started in the 1960s before indicators existed.

We are selling Steelhead flies like crazy right now because many fly shops only have nymphs and egg imitations to sell for Steelhead.

Actually Spey casting has brought back swinging flies for Steelhead. Someone said that is mostly what you see on the Lower American River now.......guys with long rods. Indicator nymphing for Steelhead is on a decline right now.

If our fisheries were more intact we would not have even need indicators...

I am not anti-idicator...I just have no interest in them at all for my personal fishing.

If I wanted to catch more Steelhead I would have stayed with my spinning rod and night crawlers....serious.

Before the indicators were here I fished night crawlers (1960ish) in the river for Steelhead and I could out fish most anyone back then except Ted Wilson who is a legend on the river with a spinning outfit.

I went over to fly fishing for Steelhead around 1965 because I liked the fly casting and I liked the grab..........

This is what I am about and what I am promoting.

If you need to catch more fish per day I would not recommend my old fashion methods.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________________________

Recently I had a guy in who has been to the Trinity River in the past for Steelhead and has never swung flies for them but is headed back up there and had some interest in doing it. I recommended that he swing flies for the first few hours in the day and the last few hours in the day and indicator fish in the mid-day.

I figure as soon as he gets a fish on the swing he will be converted.....

Does that make me a bad person...?



PS: All who fish are my brother.......even with night crawlers.

.

[JGB]

Good stuff BK. I like the way you write.

JGB

P.S. Were you a politician in a previous life? :D

[Troutstalker55B]

Well said Bill, it's all about the journey; quality before quantity.

[FRSam]

Bill I couldn't agree more...I just can't get into indicator fishing...I can't tell you the countless hours I spent swinging fly's on all our coastal rivers back in the seventies without a take but when I got that first "grab" up on the Gualala I was hooked!

The cast for me is what fly fishing is all about...it's what keeps it interesting, keeps it challenging and keeps it beautiful. I feel the same way about fishing the Stillwater...I'd much rather cast a fly than watch an indicator.

Pete

[Ralph]

Just as spooning leads to forking, swinging leads to skating. Skating is the ultimate tease.

[Adam Grace]

FISH FOR THE GRAB!!!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/flyguyag/fishing/IMGP3031.jpg


I admit that I sometimes use indicators, but I will gladly swing flies or fish dries if the moment is right. Traditional fishing offers me more satisfaction when I hook up and more enjoyment when I am simply casting and enjoying my time on the water. I might not catch as many fish but I enjoy the challenge and my time casting more than if I caught more fish.

I think that it is a progression of some fisherman to want to move on from a "fool-proof" method to offer more of a challenge..... otherwise, like Bill said, wouldn't we still be fishing bait ;)

[Bob G]

I personally find it quite admirable that Bill's points, coming from a fly shop owner, are so heartfelt as well as very matter-of-factly stated in an objective and non-controversial manner. I have fished with Bill for over 42 years now, and for all of those years he has been one of my dearest and closest personal friends. Moreover, together we have taught hundreds to either start or learn more about fly fishing...Bill knows what he is saying.

It is heartening to see Bill take the time, and in such a courteous approach, to accurately describe fly fishing.

Thank you Bill!

[bigfly]

I think this a great topic.....(For a rant...)
For many years I was a dry fly guy, false casting my way through life (Read snob.)
The Truckee changed that.....
When I see a rising fish, I still throw them a dry in a heart beat.
It will remain a joy till I hang up my waders.
But........
I no longer decide before I go to the water, the way I'll fish.
Too many times I've seen guys try to make the fish eat it their way.
And get skunked. (Including me...)
I think we should let the water/fish suggest the style of attack.
As I see it, many styles exist for a reason, and I want to learn them all......
Swinging a wet is the oldest fly style.
Then came dries, then streamers, High stickin,
(Although I suspect this to be the mother of all styles....( Watch a movie called reluctant Samurai for early style),
and then indicators of all sorts..
I teach all these styles, and a few hybrids as well.

Indy fishing has evolved over the years into a very effective method.
I think of it as a "presentation platform".......
And, ask anyone who has learned that style up here, and they'll tell you it takes more than a day to learn well.
Most guys that can cast a dry can struggle with it.
The folks that can chuck junk, can usually use some dry fly casting practice.
The guys that focus on an overhand cast for distance, often miss out on fish near their feet.
The guys that only fish little dries to little fish up close, miss out on piggies way over there on the bottom.....
A surprise grab on a swinging streamer will beat out most sips of a dry.
The random big fish's roll for a dry, will still nearly stop my heart. (Actually I'm hoping to go that way....)
It's all good!
Bill, I don't think any of these styles are going anywhere.
There will always be fishermen who want to learn more.....I hope.
The masses of consumers will do whatever the "new" trend is. (Pegging the BLOODY BEADS for example.)
I suggest paying attention to our own game......not theirs.
Do whatever turns your crank, but I recommend learning as many tricks as possible to give you more all-around game.
It sucks, when they won't play your way......

JGB, I'd rather be a good drifter, than a good caster......(on moving water).
Many times I've one-drifted a fish without making a cast, and early on, I cast beautious loops all day without
ever getting a drift.....I still see a lot of that......

Jon, I tell them they can practice casting before the guide day, or on it.....

And Ralph is right about skating maybe being the ultimate fun.
I had a ball doing it on the McCloud last week.
Sputtering/fluttering/motor-boating Oct.Caddis.....OMG.

Jim

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

I was there too...........maybe 30 years ago.....?

I carried only one box of nymphs and one spool of tippet and some split shot........

We had learned how to high stick/short line nymph on freestone river, at first with no indicators, and we were so bad we thought that anyone who carried dry flies was a looser.

BF........I like your idea that people learn how to do everything.

We have noticed that for the past decade or so the masses have been getting so much indicator promotion that they did not know about any other way to fish......pretty sad.

A big education is to work one summer in a fly shop. The exposure will blow your mind. In some cases guiding for too long or working in a fly shop too long can almost ruin it for some.

Another idea is for those guys who catch so many fish a day on indicators that it is almost boring, it could be challeging to try to nymph without one or with a very subtle one?

__________________________________________________ _______________________

Doug Swisher said that fly casting was slipping away because so many anglers were either trolling in float tubes or they were short line indicator fishing on streams.

__________________________________________________ ________________________

I have to confess that I don't fish much when all that works is the indicator system.


I fish top water SMB and LMB which takes some research and knowledge to figure out when that is best. Time of day and time of year.

Most of my steelheading is with a floating line in the fall.

I try to time my lake fishing for trout when their is a major hatch coming off like on Davis Lake in May/June. I cheat and ask my friend Don Rotsma who live on the lake to tell me when to come up, then I fish in his boat and use his special damsel imitations. What a dam cheater....

I fish tarpon with a floating line and most of my flies float too.

I fish Permit with a floating line and most do too.

Everyone fishes Bonefish with a floating line.

I fished Peacock Bass mostly with a flaoting line in the Amazon in February with low water.

I fished Roosterfish with only a floating line for a week in late May out of La Paz and caught them on top with an Airhead.

I fished Brook trout in Labrador with big dry flies at Cooper's Minippi Lodge....it's the norm there.

I fished Atlanatic Salmon on the Miramichi River in Nova Scotia with a floating line.....darn, that is how all the locals fished too.


I am so bad that if I can't fish a floating line with no junk on it I don't go.

I am totally spoiled and if you like this type of fly fishing then I can help you find it too.

Don't blame this perversion on me........one of my heros and mentors old Chuck Campana got me going this way years ago....

We just like the casting and sometime we catch a fish. It's nice to not have an ego about numbers.

I have another million stories about all this but I am getting tired
__________________________________________________ _______________________

Some years ago 4 of us were on the Upper Sacramento River all fishing/wading together upstream. The two younger guys were on point hitting every riffle with the indocator nymphing techneque and us too old farts where bring up the rear with a dry fly on our hook keepers, mostly BSing.

I do remember making a few casts up near the top of a big pool on the other side and getting an 18 inch Rainbow on a #12 Royal Wulff that shocked me as much as everyone else. I think it was the only fish I caught that day and it was merely an accident.

.

[bonneville54]

We just like the casting and sometime we catch a fish.

Amen.

I've always admired a beautiful cast, not just for length, but for accuracy, too.....one placed just under that overhanging branch or into a difficult wind. Stuff like that.

Now that I think about it, I'll bet I've caught just as many fish on my ugly casts.

But the fact is, for me anyway, "traditional" (I use the term loosely) casting is fun, whether it be 10 feet or 80 feet, as satisfying as a well hit backhand. When ones timing is right, when one feels the subtle tug on the backcast...all can be well in the world. (OK, that may be a bit much)

Admittedly, I'm lousy at casting with bobbers, but I'd like to learn. Kinda intimidated by the spey guys and, in the end, lazier than I should be when learning new things.

Anyway, great topic...loved the responses, although Ralph has me worried about my "creep".

Just what I need.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Basically there are two schools on single handed distance casting distance:

The 'Lefty Kreh' method where you have a very long stroke and a drift on the rear with some sidearm at times that is associated with the saltwater fly casters.

Then there is the 'Golden Gate' tournament style with the cast more vertical, short, powerful stroke straight up over the shoulder for distance. I always think of Steve Rajeff as a good example of this style of casting.

I use both.

I use the Lefty method when it is windy and the Rajeff method when I want more accuracy.

What ever you do it is always nice for your personal success to work on your distance casting from time to time.

[JasonB]

I've been lightly following this conversation from the start. Admittedly I'm not a great caster by any stretch, although I do get some pretty sweet ones from time to time and love the way they look and feel. I am also a tenacious learner, and I'm all about making it just a bit better and better as I go. I find the whole topic of fishing styles and traditions even more interesting than casting styles. As a novice to this great sport, I've been dabbling at lots of ways and means of presenting my flies to the fish... ALL of them have been interesting, challenging, and (at times) rewarding!

Sometimes they are rewarding simply in and of themselves, regardless of whether or not a fish gobbled my fly. At times it's just a really nice spot on cast just above a rising fish, a smooth swing that puts my fly right in front of a likely boulder, a really clean drift tight against an undercut bank, dealing with complex tricky currents with timely precise mends... etc. Just pulling any of those off well is a really nice feeling of accomplishment for me.

I certainly have my preferences, and so too it would seem the fish have theirs. One of the beautiful things is that it seems that often the fish have changing moods and tastes, much more so than many of the anglers I see pounding the waters. While I value the history and beauty of any tradition, I also value and crave innovation. There is of course always the issue that sometimes innovation can inadvertently suck some of the heart and soul out of the core experience. Not sure that is ever entirely controllable either. I can see indicators as doing a bit of both: on the one hand they can be a pretty simple and mundane way of fishing a short piece of homogenous water; on the other they can be used in some very sophisticated ways to work pieces of water that I think would be pretty tough (if not impossible) to effectively fish any other way.

I remember one particularly tough and challenging (and FUN) day of fishing for some piggies with Bigfly. At one particular spot we were both taking turns at trying to fish a long sweeping bend with all kinds of water and lots of really prime lies. The cool part was trying to do the whole thing in one long convoluted drift; pulling, mending, lifting, dropping, swerving this way and that. It was quite a feat to pull off; at first I didn't think there was any way I could do it. When I watched him maneuver his flies through the whole series of rapids and riffles, and saw how seamlessly they flowed down the river it made me inspired to try. Although I didn't get a bite (and neither did he), I found the process and accomplishment more than rewarding enough... and I had that feeling of certainty the entire drift that a fish was looming right by that next seam eyeing my flies ready to strike. Very exciting stuff.

My own progression started as a kid with worms and bobbers (got bored with that very fast).
-moved to spinners
-dry flies (WAY FUN!)
-then "the drought" (22 year hiatus with no fishing) :eek:
-started over again with dry flies (even better than I remembered!)
-learned to nymph with indicators (lots more success, and bigger fish)
-played with streamers (mostly non successfully)
-learned a bit of highsticking this summer (very cool)
-learning to swing wets (and streamers more successfully too)
-playing around with a cool new combination of several ideas (not sure what it might be called, or if the fish are laughing...but I like it)

Now to tie some flies and imagine the fish drooling over them :D
JB

[rubberguy]

adam, great photo. i liked it so much that i'm now using it for my wallpaper. thank you.

[jbird]

"How important is your fly casting skill?"

Its everything. But I think flyline manipulation may be a better description. Its not how far you can cast, its how well you can adapt to whats necessary for the conditions. Can you change directions 90 degrees while youre in the middle of a cast to hit a fish you just spotted? Can you side arm a big, wind resistant popper under low hanging bushes back into a bucket? Can you cast backwards, long and accurate ALL DAY because of where you are in the boat with your buddy and the wind is over your wrong shoulder? Theres a hundered tricks to nymphing that set apart the guys who really succeed consistantly. effective nymphing goes way beyond casting. It is a far more complicated method than most guys give it credit. Yeah any hack can catch a fish or two doing it, but to really succeed with it day in and day out takes a LOT of discipine.

I believe the type of fishing that can take any caster to the next level is bass fishing. Im talkin about huge flies thrown precisely into pockets in the brush. Or Side arm casting a big heavy leech and skipping it on the water up under a dock...

My flyrod/line/leader/fly, feel like an extention of my body. I visualize where I want the fly and thats where it goes. Its not always pretty and sometimes I fail but I am very confident with a flyrod. That may sound arrogant but I dont know how else to put it. My rods and I have had 1000s of hours of practice :-)

Flyline manipulation is EVERYTHING. Your fly choice doesnt matter nearly as much as how its presented.

[bigfly]

Jbird,.....Amen.
I started as a bass fisherman (still am for that matter.).
But the pressure of losing a fly per bad cast works wonders on one's motivation.
And I'm talking frogs and snakes and stuff that takes a while to tie.
Compared to a birds nest or something we throw for trout.
Fifty feet to a pie plate size hole is needed.
That accuracy works great on trout too.

Second, Amen on line tricks/manipulation..
Where I put my line, in the air, or on the water, matters more than almost anything I can think of.
More than bug choice even......

The ancient art of rollcasting, and waterloads, are my staple (Although, the snap T shows up a lot as well).
No waving rods for me.....
No false casts.....
(fewer tangles, and no flies lost in the bushes behind you....)
Fish like a ninja, don't let them see/hear you coming.
That's about all there is to it.
Give or take.

One after thought......
Perhaps my greatest joy lately, has been swinging 200 hundred year old soft hackle patterns, on my Sage switch rod.
Old and new, blending seamlessly into a nice Rainbow.
It's the kind of poetry the masses will never know......and that's OK.
Because it wouldn't work as well if they did........................

Jim

[TyV]

Wow, I never would have anticipated the dialogue that has ensued following my posting of a question about my personal experience. It obviously struck a nerve for some. I honestly couldn't care any less about tradition...it's more about progress for me. While I do have the utmost respect for those who have paved the way, progression of every sport is not only inevitable but a very good thing. Those who choose to hold onto the past while poo pooing the present and future are missing out.

BigFly said it best when talking about how big is your bag of tricks! JayBird was also right on the money. I never said that one form of presenting flies was better than another, simply that being good at casting with an indicator was much tougher than being good at casting a single dry fly...I call that a no brained of the highest order. I am pretty damn good a both but not great.

Hell, I had a day on the Truckee recently when I stuck multiple fish on dries, nymphs and swinging streamers...that was a pretty great day and accomplishment for me! I also gave some high sticking a go but missed the only bump I got.

To each their own, fish how you want fish and enjoy it...isn't that what it's really about? Final thought...the concept of quality over quantity is the way I used to feel until I realized quality AND quantity sounded way better...it is for me!

Fish_ON

[bigfly]

Fish On, the ability to appreciate what took place before we came along may be a component of age.
Personally, when I was a pup, I couldn't wait for the old guys to get out of the way.
Now that I'm "older"...I do enjoy learning skills that are dated (classic), almost as much as learning, or even creating something new.
Having said that....
A favorite quote is by Yvon Chounard (Maker of some fine Bigwall hammers).
"When all you have is a hammer, you'll see every problem as a nail."
He quit making hammers for a while, just to help climbers move to the next level.

As a Woodworker, and later as general contractor, I always wanted the tool for the job.
Flyfishing is the same for me now.
As a guide I help beginners through the early hurdles of casting.
It's fun because they are open to it.....
What challenges, are the folks that call with lots of fishing time under their belt.
20 years...
Montana, Alaska, etc....
Then on the day they pull out a noodle and can maybe cast a dry to the end of my truck.
(Makes you think there are some easy fish out there...somewhere...)
Mostly, we still get the job done. But there can be some resistance.
(I had a guy once who could only cast on one side of a stream.......
Thought that was funny until I took up the Spey rod.)
I make no claims to casting/coaching greatness.
I do remember when I first tried it though, which gives me some empathy for my students.
Mostly, I just try to infuse a never-ending search for more ways to "getter done".
This takes practice, and I don't mean just on grass, or casting pool.
Try fishing in gales, at night, left handed, backwards, what ever.....put yourself in situations that are tough and work through them. Different styles, strange waters, will raise your game.
To risk two quotes in the same thread.
Super golfer, Ben Hogan, said, "The more I practice, the luckier I get."
Seems to work for fly fishing too.....no matter which casting/fishing style you choose.

Jim

[JGB]

Super golfer, Ben Hogan, said, "The more I practice, the luckier I get."

An observation of mine with golfers is that the better they are the angrier they get over a bad shot. Not only have I improved my game by golfing with better golfers, I have also improved(?) my vocabulary!

Haven't noticed the same with ffers though.
JGB