September Steelhead runs......?

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Over the years I have heard old time Steelheaders talk about the runs being depleted in September on the Klamath and Trinity Rivers and their theory was the fact that the weather was just too nice allowing many to camp and fish on the rivers.

I heard there were really big runs on both the Klamath and Trinity years ago in September.

I read an article some years ago by someone about the September runs in British Columbia being pounded for the same reasons......weahter is too nice.

I think the eratic crazy winter weather is a protection for the Winter-run wild Steelhead.

[Jed Peters]

Has anyone heard any actual reports? I get speculation, but no reports so far from the Trinity.

No one's talkin'. Probably a good thing.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

I did not mean this year.....

I was talking about a long time ago they (old timers) say there were much better runs in September than there are today.

Maybe 50 plus years ago.

[ycflyfisher]

50 years ago? And you’re attributing the bulk of the decline between now and then to increased angler pressure from favorable weather conditions?

You REALLY can’t be serious in thinking that could be a valid point to ponder.

Think about your hypothesis for a moment.

[Nooksack Mac]

Steelhead numbers have declined rather drastically throughout their range (southern California to Alaska) for decades. The rate of attrition is particularly high among native steelhead. (Numbers of hatchery-raised steelhead distort the overall numbers, and even the sum of the two types is low compared to, say, a century ago.) To say that the overall cause is good camping weather is like saying that the near-extermination of European Jews during WW II is attributable to their inability to digest German concentration camp cuisine.#-o

Steelhead go through a complex life cycle, usually spread over thousands of square miles. At each point in the cycle, there is considerable evidence of attrition (together with some conflicting evidence). Here's a very partial list:

l. Spawning stream degredation, due to overlogging and mining, increased human presence: streamside homes.
2. Predation by birds and animals. (But weren't there always predators?)
3. Exterpitation during downstream migration by slice-and-dice turbines in dams.
4. Netting during the steelhead's years in the ocean by ever-increasing, large-scale, ruthlessly efficient commercial netting.
5. Uncontrolled commercial netting by treaty-protected and favored Native American or First Nation (oh, the hell with political correctness - let's keep calling them Indians) tribes.
6. Too-generous limits for sport fishing. (Incredibly, Washington state allows catch-and-kill of native steelhead in Olympic Peninsula streams:-s).

The cause seems to derive from all of these factors and more. I don't think anyone knows which stage does the most harm by percentages; but it all adds up - to major reduction.:crybaby:

[toby]

We all need to learn to respect the river and the fish.My home water is the Russian and it just get hammered. The litter that is left be hind tells a lot of how we feel about our beautiful country. Being mindful to haul out not only your stuff but a little treasure someone else left behind. Flyfishing has made me more aware of this attuied and I am greatful for that.

[Digger]

50 years ago? And you’re attributing the bulk of the decline between now and then to increased angler pressure from favorable weather conditions?

You REALLY can’t be serious in thinking that could be a valid point to ponder.

Think about your hypothesis for a moment.


I didn't really see that Bill was hypothisizing anything about the bulk of decline.
More so just stating what old time steelheaders had once claimed.

I think his generalization that less angler pressure is likely during inclement winter weather and therefore may be advantageous to the winter-runs, is certainly hard to argue with.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

I think dams, logging, devolement, netting, hatcheries and ag have been the big factors........not sport fishing pressure, as far as the big picture goes.

What I was talking about was years ago in September the Klamath, Trinity and Rogue had many camp grounds full of anglers, mostly conventional anglers. I think the salmon and Half-pounder fishing was so good it attracted hundreds of peopel from all over the west.

Some of the old timers I knew who lived through this and are now gone believed this fantastic fair weather fishing was part of the decline of Half-pounder runs in those river in September?

Who knows.....

.

[ycflyfisher]

Well when Bill originally states:
“Over the years I have heard old time Steelheaders talk about the runs being depleted in September on the Klamath and Trinity Rivers and their theory was the fact that the weather was just too nice allowing many to camp and fish on the rivers.”

Then adds:
“I did not mean this year.....

I was talking about a long time ago they (old timers) say there were much better runs in September than there are today.

Maybe 50 plus years ago.”

Then adds for clarification:

“What I was talking about was years ago in September the Klamath, Trinity and Rogue had many camp grounds full of anglers, mostly conventional anglers. I think the salmon and Half-pounder fishing was so good it attracted hundreds of peopel from all over the west.

Some of the old timers I knew who lived through this and are now gone believed this fantastic fair weather fishing was part of the decline of Half-pounder runs in those river in September?”

It seems pretty obvious to me that Bill is subscribing to and supporting the notion that increased angler pressure due to favorable camping conditions lead to a measureable, terminal affect on abundance. But maybe that’s just me……

50+ years ago the population of the state was about 10M. Today it’s 35+M.
50+ years ago Highway 96 was a dirt road.
50+ years ago the Klamath likely hosted somewhere between 500-750k of steelhead annually. I think most would agree that’s an extremely conservative estimate. Think about those numbers for a moment.

For Bill’s little theory to hold water, we’re talking about a kill of surplus fish not of a few hundred, or a few thousand, or even tens of thousands. We’re talking about a surplus kill well into 6 figures that can be directly attributed to increased angler pressure due to favorable camping conditions for there to be a measureable, terminal impact to overall abundance. Simply put as possible, what Bill is offering up as a valid point to ponder, is certifiably nuts and requires an abandonment of all logic. This theory treats the precipitous drop in abundance in Sept, as an anomaly that requires further explanation (it isn’t) and completely ignores the fact that there has been a similar erosion in abundance during the other months of the fall run progression over his 50 year+ timeline.

Bottomline is there has NEVER been a watershed as vast as the Klamath where “hook and line” recreational angling has imperiled the abundance of anadromous fish. Do you really think the gear anglers were keeping tons of pounders when the regs allowed them to keep 100+ lbs of salmon a day? I’m thinking not……

How anadromous fish build and maintain abundance:

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=4976&page=275


A more realistic rationalization in why the abundance has dropped in the last 50+ years on the Klamath in September (and every other month) is as follows:

The post WWII housing boom increased demand for lumber and the USFS management units in Norcal responded by increasing timber sales. The spike in timber demand was so large the USFS was forced to create a new FS management unit in the late 1940’s: Six Rivers.

Heading into the 1950’s lumber production ramps up to the point that general stores began to appear at the base of every logging road along 96 to take advantage spending capital of the large tent cities of loggers and road builders living in the forests. Wonton destruction of tributary habit via unsound and unsustainable timber practices and “least cost” road building to support the timber sales occurs.

There are certainly other things that have had an adverse impact to abundance over that timeline, but massive habitat destruction is the root cause.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Lots of interesting ideas YC......thanks.

The number of anglers who went to the Klaamth River in the fall after WW II in the 50s, 60s and 70s was huge.

I know that according to the CA DF&G reports legal sport fishing has little effect on anadromous fisheries.

With the removal of some dams and the possible healing of the forrest maybe we will get some better steelhead fisheires going again some day?

[JayDubP]

Steelhead have been C & R for many years in British Columbia. The results have been good but not spectacular. AND there it limited or no fishing by native indians.

Many of the rivers that have had huge declines in steelhead do not have dams, although some do have logging and mining... So why have steelhead declined on rural rivers with little fresh water sports fishing pressure?

A lot of people in BC blame the offshore fishing where steelhead are often netted with salmon.

intersting that BC has a different set of problems than N California but has some of the same end results.

Guess it is the ongoing problem of what affects steelhead and salmon the most- offshore fishing, pollution, dams, warm water, native gill netting or sports fishing.

[winxp_man]

What ever it is that makes steelies disappear I almost feel like just giving up fishing and just going and enjoy a day at the shooting range............ :)

Lets face it there is just to much to fix! Or to much to what even people (that have the power)will want to fix; or have the will to fix. I just read and read but not much is done. If it is then show me proof and don't tell me that steelhead are on a decline....


In the end I will enjoy what I can when I can. :D