Chips Fire threatens Butt/Caribou

[Tracy Chimenti]

I've been keeping an eye on the fire map for the Chips Fire. 42,000 acres and still going. Looks like the fire has touched the edge of the west shore in one spot on Butt Lake. I am going to miss that gorgeous forest on the west side and the shade it provides in the early evening. Looks like its also running very close to the Yellow Creek in the Humbug valley area. Damn-- another drop-dead gorgeous spot. I would not be surprised to see this one take almost the entire west side of Butt. I noticed that air tankers are "available", however not in use. They are utilizing helicopters. Do any of you forest service folks know why they aren't using the planes on this event? Seems like an easy fill-up on Almanor or at least the Chester arport is close by for phoscheck... seems like all hands should be on deck to protect this resource rich area.

Tracy

[Darian]

Saw a recent TV news bit that said that the air tanker fleet CalFire uses is becoming unsafe and/or outdated. No money for overhaul/repair. They have a reduced number available for fire fighting support. It sounds like the aircraft they have are committed to supporting crews in high priority areas; with all of the fires going in populated areas around the state. The Feds have a fleet and they are supposedly in use, as well.

The same news bit said that Calfire estimated that the Chips fire might burn until the end of August....

[Tracy Chimenti]

Damn, Darian, that sucks. Maybe it will reach Jonesville, butte Meadows, West Shore Almanor then??!!

Also, this is a USFS fire, not a Cal-Fire incident. They said the planes are available, and for this depressed timber economy that now relies on tourism, this would seem like a priority area.

[Ben J]

Voluntary evacuations for both Canyondam and West Almanor are in place. I would not be surprised if the fire raced up the canyon out of Butt up towards Almanor. It is really a shame that the fire already torched the Yellow Creek canyon.

Also the Reading Fire in Lassen Park has done some serious damage and continues to burn. Amazing what can happen from a few smoldering trees after a lightning strike.

A fire now burns in the Mill Creek canyon upstream from Black Rock as well.

[huntindog]

the smoke has made air operations impossible. There also comes a point where air operations are just not nearly as effective as people think. For the most part air ops are great for initial attacks and slowing down a fast moving portion of the fire to allow crews on the ground to hit it hard. But they dont put out a fire. You need bare dirt line around fires. Also..fire might be just what some of that forest needs...we suppress suppress suppress..and then we get the big ones. I know the area very well where this fire is burrning...A LOT of dead and down trees.

[royewest]

I'm also following this closely. Official details and good maps updated several times per day here:

http://www.inciweb.org/incident/3052/

I understand that fire is part of the cycle of western ecosystems, but at 50-something I realize that I will not live to see this area forested again.

Heartbreaking.

[Tracy Chimenti]

Gotcha Huntindog, juest feel that if it's too steep to get hand crews into some of the areas with all the falling debris, why not bring out some big boys. The USFS tanker fleet capacity is apparently 30% of what it was in 2002, so I can somewhat understand. This will however hurt local economies that rely on tourism for revenue. Amazing... two unfunded wars across the pond, but no one's willing to print the money to build tankers. Ideology?

[Adam Grace]

My father and I fished lower Yellow Creek about 2 weeks before the fire hit. I feel very regretful that I didn't take more pictures of that beautiful area. I will miss fishing up there and I hope that I will get a chance to see that area come back to a mere resemblance of what is was before the fire. :(

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/flyguyag/fishing/IMG_3735-10.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/flyguyag/fishing/IMG_3805-31.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/flyguyag/fishing/strmvegscape.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/flyguyag/fishing/_MG_2746.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/flyguyag/fishing/_MG_2848.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/flyguyag/fishing/_MG_2880.jpg


Yellow Creek, the meadows

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/flyguyag/fishing/IMGP2377.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/flyguyag/fishing/IMGP2687.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/flyguyag/fishing/IMGP2744.jpg

[Darian]

I get it. Fire is not always a bad thing. It has a way of renewing forested areas. However, I don't think the people who advocate using fire in that manner anticipated fires of the magnitude we're experiencing statewide and throughout the west. Controlled burns are a valuable tool, tho.

Not sure if it's still the case, but isn't the scorched timber harvested as salvage by logging companies (e.g. Sierra Pacific, etc.). It was reported in local news papers in the spring that a logging company in Quincy (I believe) was in a dispute over the value of a timber sale with USFS. I think the owner contended the value of the timber was overstated by USFS and it caused him to lose money. Not pointing fingers, but it seems to me that might be an incentive to allow a fire to burn as long as possible before making any great effort to control it as long as no populated areas are involved. A happy coincidence or no harm, no foul??? Who knows....

Doesn't allowing a certain amount of downed material to rot on the ground create mulch and, ultimately, top soil??? Ashes to ashes, dust to dust so to speak....

[huntindog]

D, there is definately a fine line between "healthy fires" and destruction. Theoretically, the forest used to burn a lot more often. Ground clutter was burnt, large areas were cleared and the wildlife evolved with it. I know and work with a few wildlife managers who will flat out tell you the primary cause for the fall of our deer population is that we have taken fire out of the equation. I would fall into that camp myself. I look at the fire going on northeast of Chico right now, The Mill Fire. Frankly would love to see that one go about 200,000 acres. That is winter range deer habitat and any old timer around here will tell you how good the deer hunting was for 20 years after the last great fire went through that area (I believe it was in the 60's). It basically burnt from forest ranch to red bluff and the area is still known as "the old Chico Burn." Anyway, it is certainly a touchy subject that mixes science, with theory, with emotion. I think the area burning in the Chips fire will be just fine, I believe it will still be beautiful, and I look forward to deer hunting in Chips canyon in the next few years.

[Darian]

huntindog,.... Here's hoping you do well up there.... :D

Adam,.... great photo's. Beautiful country. It will return to the same in time and you're young enough to be around to see it happen. 8)

[Frank Alessio]

It all comes down to money...We need to stop sending our Money to foreign Governments and start fixing this Country up again before it is too late....

[Rich Morrison]

Unfortunately it's not as simple as all that. The way our government allocates money is as convuleted and burecratic as you would expect. I am a professional pilot and I am about to complete a master's degree in aviation mangement with an emphasis on safety. I've focused most of my research during my program on the air tanker industry. There are a number of problems with it. I actually interviewed with Aero Union in Chico back in 2004. They were not interested in hiring me. I did not have and A&P certification, which I can understand. But as an experinced military aviator I could tell there was some bias there against me due my disciplined flying background and the perception that military flyers may be too cautious for that type of flying. This is all strictly my opinion on what went on in the interview. This industry is constanly plagued with safety incident after safety incident. Some of which are caused by mechanical issues, but most of which are flight discipline problems. And I base that on the reasearch I have done. In fact, the chief pilot that interviewed me at Aero Union was killed in the crash of tanker 26 near Chico less than a year later. It was a training mission and they flew a fully funciontal airplane into the terrain. I realize the flying is dangerous, but almost all the recent air tanker crashes, either mechanical or pilot error, were quite preventable. A big part of the problem is that the US Dept of Agriculuture oversees the contracting of these aircraft and the FAA oversight falls under the agriculural governance so it's a completely different set of rules and different pot of money than the FAA we are used to seeing dealing with the airline industry. Again my opinion here, but until we stop throwing too little money at ageing and abused tanker fleets and don't take a hard look at a modern air tanker force with a bit more regulation (I can't believe I'm saying that) we will continue to see the same results and a continued decline in our ability to fight fires from the air.

[Mike O]

Problem with the fires we get are definately related to the previous "surpress, suprress, surprise!!" ideology.

Whewe spent so much time not allowing fire's natural cycle to occur, we created a lot of undergrowth and crowding. Studies I have read show that modern fires burn hotter, creep a little slower, and therefore "clearcut" forests a little more.

I have just returned from Yellowstone, where trees from the 1988 fires are just now getting reestablished in some areas. a ranger said that the fires in some areas burned so hot and slow in some areas, that it killed the seeds in the cones and underground, so it took longer. A lot of areas had really small trees

[Tracy Chimenti]

For some resaon, they have one tanker on the fire now. I hope like you guys are saying that this fire is mainly reducing litter and ground fuels, but from the way the blow-up looked from Yuba yesterday, I would not be surprised if it wasn't crowning some nice stands. I also hope we don't get hit with huge spring rains that will wash hillsides into rivers.