Carrying a Handgun While Wearing Waders

[atavuss]

Anyone carry a handgun with waders on?

[joshfish]

a buddy that i fish with carrys a handgun when he is out fishing. he puts it in the back pocket on his fishing vest. saw another guy that carries one in a holster on his chest under his waders. im looking at holsters to carry my xd40. trying to decide if i want to carry on my chest or side.

[atavuss]

seems that access to a handgun would be pretty poor on a belt holster inside your waders, chest holster access would be much better with a heavy caliber revolver.

[stonefly58]

I gave the issue of carrying a firearm a lot of thought, as most do. I looked at a shoulder holster and a belt holster and decided to carry it in my Simms Headwaters Waist Pack which is in front and easy to access. I did keep in mind that I could possibly get my firearm wet so I chose to go with the stainless steel version .44 mag with a 4 inch barrel. The reason for such a large caliber is that I had a very close encounter with a Bear in the Sierra Nevadas, too close for my comfort.

[atavuss]

I gave the issue of carrying a firearm a lot of thought, as most do. I looked at a shoulder holster and a belt holster and decided to carry it in my Simms Headwaters Waist Pack which is in front and easy to access. I did keep in mind that I could possibly get my firearm wet so I chose to go with the stainless steel version .44 mag with a 4 inch barrel. The reason for such a large caliber is that I had a very close encounter with a Bear in the Sierra Nevadas, too close for my comfort.

I would bet there is an interesting story in there about the bear, care to share?

[DFrink]

I am hoping to purchase a handgun this summer (can't figure out how to strap my 12 gauge on under my vest :D). I think I was being stocked by a Mountain Lion a few summers ago while fishing in the upper reaches of the American. I will carry one when fishing remote areas once I make the purchase. I would like to hear the bear encounter story as well?

[Frank Alessio]

LCR.... Light Carry Revolver fits right in the little chest pocket of your waders above the belt... You do not even know it is there... Come to the Gun counter at Sportsmans Warehouse in Rocklin and I would be happy to show you one....Frank

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Lots of old timers use to carry a pistol while fishing.

Some had bird shot for the first two rounds for rattle snakes.

You do have black bears and mountain lions to concider.

You do have so strange folks out in the woods too.

Then you have the one growing pot.

Until recently a concealed weapon was a misdemeanor but I think now it is a felony?

Stainless steel pistol sounds good for fisher folks.

A small one in the front pocket of your waders or even in one of your fly fishing vest pockets sounds good.



I was in the gun business for about 10 years in three different stores so I heard a lot of stories.......

__________________________________________________ _________________________

I had an old friend who was confronted by two weird guys just out of Forrest Hill. He was fishing and they came up to him and with a maybe a knife and club and told him they were going to take all his stuff and his car.

He told them that he would go along with them then he got to his pistol and it all changed. They were both actually on a bicycle so he had them marched in front of his car and walked them into town and called the law.

__________________________________________________ ________________________

Another old customer was in his pickup and cab-over camper up near the Rubicon River. He and his wife pulled off a logging road and just parked over night on a little side spot. In the morning he was up before his wife outside the camper when a dozen of so guys on motorcycles pulled up and started talking to him.

One of them said, "Well old timer, how about fixing us some breakfast? He said he didn't cook and his wife was still sleeping in the camper. One of them said, "Well, let's wake her up and get this breakfast going." When the guy started to go into his camper he said, I'll get her up.

When he came out of the camper with the 45 pistol he brought home from WWII he shot one in the air an said, "Who wants to die this morning boys?"

He said they left very fast.......

__________________________________________________ _____________________

Maybe having a pistol out in the wilds is a good thing?

.

[Slice]

LCR.... Light Carry Revolver fits right in the little chest pocket of your waders above the belt... You do not even know it is there... Come to the Gun counter at Sportsmans Warehouse in Rocklin and I would be happy to show you one....Frank

Frank, how does that compare to the S&W Featherweights. I own one and love it, the LCR looks comparable for less $. I just got the LC9 which is growing on me but heavier than the S&W.

Jacket pocket or wader pouch if no jacket.

Jim

[Fats]

I had a friend back in Michigan that always had a small handgun in the upper inside pocket of his fishing vest. He said he's had "live iron" drawn on him twice in his life. He didn't want that to happen again.

It almost feels like you have to these days if you get too far off the beaten track... The hard part is getting the CCW. If you live in an area like Sonoma, they are dang difficult to get...

[beachjumper1]

my local DA said go to CA dept of justice for info. if you think fish and game laws are complex. if you own a gun you are guilty of something, where are our fishing lawyers and judges on this question ? George

[shawn kempkes]

actually unless the law has changed in the last five years. Its perfectly legal to pack a concealed pistol while fishing or hunting in California. I carry one for the two legged meth head tweakers that you encounter on the river. Plus there is a minumun security prison near one of the rivers I like to fish and convicts go missing alot. But in WA to get a cpl all you have to do is pay 60 bucks get fingerprinted and pass a background check and they give you the liscence. You can always open Carry here to without a cpl.

[jbird]

Ive got a ruger sp101 with 2 1/4" barrel. Extremely small, concealable 357. Its a great little revolver and would be sufficient for close encounters with most anything youd encounter in California/Oregon.


He said he's had "live iron" drawn on him twice in his life. He didn't want that to happen again.

Im wondering how having your own concealed side arm could prevent this from happenning. Whipping out your own gun after being "pulled on" may not be the best way to diffuse the situation.



Anyone wanting to carry should consider taking a gun safety coarse and aquiring a concealed carry permit.

[Ralph]

I learned something today:

25640. Section 25400 does not apply to, or affect, licensed hunters
or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable
of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or
fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or
returning from the hunting or fishing expedition.

Seems pretty black and white until you start reading all the exceptions.

[Fly Guy Dave]

I quote California Penal Code Section 12025:

(a) a person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he or she does the following: blah, blah, blah, (don't feel like typing out all of the legal mumbo-jumbo), you can look it up online: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

CPC 12027: Section 12025 does not apply to or affect and of the following: g) licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols or revolvers or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition.

Now I'm not a lawyer, judge or police officer, but it seems pretty clear to me that this is a loophole in the concealed weapons law, but I imagine that most law enforcement folks out there aren't going to know about it. I have carried my snub nose .38 a few times, but I honestly don't care for the extra weight, but there are a few times when some "deliverance types" saw it, they left me well alone. However, I've found that a can of bear spray still has the same effect, is fully legal to carry, and is a whole lot lighter.

[Fly Guy Dave]

Damn, Ralph! Ya beat me to it!

[Charlie S]

Three things:

1. Be sure to take necessary classes and obtain your CCW before carrying concealed. If you don't do that, wear it in the open in a shoulder holster.

2. There are numerous different concealed carry vests on the market. These work well as you can double many of them as your fishing vest. Best way I've found to conceal carry while fishing. Be sure to clean and reoil your pistol after every trip (every day would be better).

3. Before you carry, practice, practice, practice. I don't mean five or six shots a week. To become just proficient requires some dedication and concentration. In a stress situation you will only do as well as you train...'nuff said.

[Fats]

Ive got a ruger sp101 with 2 1/4" barrel. Extremely small, concealable 357. Its a great little revolver and would be sufficient for close encounters with most anything youd encounter in California/Oregon.



Im wondering how having your own concealed side arm could prevent this from happenning. Whipping out your own gun after being "pulled on" may not be the best way to diffuse the situation.



Anyone wanting to carry should consider taking a gun safety coarse and aquiring a concealed carry permit.


The two times it happened in the past it was a one sided conversation for him... I didn't finish his thought fully. I believe his intent was to make sure if it occurred again it would be on a more level playing field. "An armed society is a polite society"

[Frank Alessio]

Slice... They are very similar... The LCR is lighter and all Black in color.... Frank

[TaylerW]

in eldorado national forest without a CCW you can open carry while fishing with a loaded mag in, but nothing in the chamber

while hunting, you can carry OPEN

generally concealed weapons are completely PROHIBITED unless you have your CCW

For gun choices, i have had multiple, and currently on my permit is a glock 27, imo the best concealing weapon on the market

[Rossflyguy]

So I've been wondering if I could carry without a ccw since I live in SF it's impossible to get it, only two people in the SF county are allowed to carry. Section 12025 says I can carry a concealed or open while on a fishing expedition only, even if I can't get a ccw license correct? Do I need a special permit or license to carry a pistol out in the open while fishing?

[Dabalone]

CA is a maze of rules and regulations regarding guns, especially handguns. County to County, City to City, its good idea to check the laws pertaining to any area you plan to be in beforehand. Kind of sad, when it comes to guns in CA you are almost as nervous of what the State might do as you are of what the gun is meant to protect you of.

[Rossflyguy]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/outposts/2010/06/fish-and-game-qa.html

This pretty much explains everything.

[Slice]

Funny i thought of posting a similar question but was worried the responses i would get. Looks like im not the only one carrying when im out there.

Frank, thank for the info, the lcr seems like a nice little piece, i think you were saying its lighter than the lcp, i doubt its lighter than the s&w airweight but its probably not much different. The airweight is aluminum alloy framed.

As far as legality goes, i dont really care. The odds of someone ever seeing it are very low and if the time ever comes when someone does it will be a situation there is no other way out of.

If someone demand my wallet or some thing similar, i will give it to them, replacable objects are replaceable.

Remember also when you take your gun out of your safe its your responsibility to keep it safe and away from causing more harm than good.

[Joe Mateas]

If your going to carry concealed or open you better know the laws, alot of guys carry a copy of the sections pertaining to carrying a firearm on them while carrying. Most laws enforcement officers don't know what the legalities are so you will most likely be arrested or cited and the firearm will be confiscated if you don't protect yourself. It's not the Officers job to know every code in the law book, it's their job to make the arrest(if they feel it is needed) and let the DA sort it out. It's hard to remember everything all the time so when I go deep enough to need to carry I print up what I need and put it in my pack. Check out www.calguns.net, you'll find everything you need to know about staying out of jail and saving alot of attourney fee's if you plan on packing a gun.

[jerry from sac]

Anyone wanting to carry a pistol while fishing or going fishing should read this code. Particulary paragraph g.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=126590
My question is can I have a loaded speed loader next to the weapon.
Great carry weapon is the Ruger SP101 .357
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY9MgTbVPyM

[koffler]

I mountain bike and fish alot. I'm not to worried to much but do carry a sidearm; primary concerns are bears and weirdos. My 2 cents is one of the top firearms formerly made of which I own 1 of - the S&W 9mm- Model 3913 Lady Smith is one of the most popular concealed weapons of all time. Accurate within 30 yds (depending on the shooter), reliable, well-built ------enough said.

Called a lady smith cause the grips are small but the advantage is that this thing is not a hand cannon and it can be put any where - < than 5" net length.

[jerry from sac]

If bears are you concern a 9mm will only irritate him.

[koffler]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[stonefly58]

For the fellas interested in my Bear story, I will post it in this thread in a few days.

[TaylerW]

carry in SF is strictly prohibited

[Rossflyguy]

In national forests its ok for licensed fisherman to carry a concealed weapon but it doesn't state that in national parks. Is that what I'm understanding? Too many rules....might as well get a CCW Permit to avoid all the rules. I guess just getting the code 12027 laminated for time being is the best way to go.

[jerry from sac]

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=386081

[shawn kempkes]

In national forests its ok for licensed fisherman to carry a concealed weapon but it doesn't state that in national parks. Is that what I'm understanding? Too many rules....might as well get a CCW Permit to avoid all the rules. I guess just getting the code 12027 laminated for time being is the best way to go.

Carrying in National parks is legal if you have a cpl (concealed pistol liscence )

[TaylerW]

reading this thread makes me wonder how many board members are "gun guys."

i work at a gun shop part time, and if anyone here is ever looking for something in particular, or has firearms they no longer uses, PM me......we buy used guns and can get just about every major brand of rifle and handgun.....

[Ralph]

Anyone packing a pistol for bear protection should should Google that idea. Study after study shows, beyond a shadow of a doubt, bear spray is more effective. Lions? You are more likely to be attacked by a herd of winning lottery tickets. THE most dangerous critter out there walks on two legs.

[Scott V]

If you do not have a license to carry concealed you can not carry concealed. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

You can carry a firearm loaded while fishing, but it must be exposed. If you are not fishing you can not carry a firearm exposed. There are exceptions but you must know the laws. Unloaded open carry is illegal in California since Jan. 1st. If you are at a temporary shooting area in the forest you can carry exposed, but you must remain in an area the area where you are shooting.

If you are even contemplating carrying a firearm make sure you are 100% within the law, and in California that is a slippery area. There are plenty of exceptions, but you better know what you are doing, carrying comes with a ton of responsibility, be 100% sure you know the rules. Jail sucks!

[Frank Alessio]

There has never been a better time to obtain a CCW than right now... Especially in sacramento county...

[Charlie S]

carry in SF is strictly prohibited

Except for certain areas (bars, courthouses, etc) I can carry concealed in any city in the state with my ccw, period.

[k9mark]

I was surprised to see this topic brought up. I'm glad that you want to not only be informed, but be lawful as well. I can unequivocally say Ralph is correct the most dangerous animal is the one that walks on two legs. I've been dealing with nefarious two legged animals for over twenty years. I will also tell you I carry everywhere I go including fishing. Not because of bears or lions, but because I seem to have the knack of running into scumbags wherever I go it seems. Quite frankly, It irritates the you know what out of me. I'm just trying to enjoy a day of fishing away from the lowlifes and what do ya know, there is someone breaking the law. I've been known march a few of these people out in handcuffs. Not so much just for breaking the law, but for ruining my day because of it. I'm kinda cranky that way. There are also quite a few marijuana grows in our forests and these people are dangerous.
CA is unique in the fact the only people they want having guns are the criminals themselves, not law abiding folk. If you want to carry a firearm, first and foremost, get to know your weapon. Personally, I carry nothing less than a .40cal. Learn how to handle it and practice with it. Secondly, if you want to carry concealed, you will need a CCW permit. Open carry is no longer allowed in CA because lawmakers want the criminals to have the guns, yes that's sarcasm, but there is truth there too.
So, with all that being said. Remember the following as it apply to you. CA lawmakers changed all the codes as they relate to firearms this past year mainly because they had nothing else better to to. So here goes.

25610. (a) Section 25400 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.

25640. Section 25400 does not apply to, or affect, licensed hunters
or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable
of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or
fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or
returning from the hunting or fishing expedition.

Now remember, certain national parks or forests may prohibit the carry of firearms so check with them before entering.

[fishnbeatsworkin]

There was an interesting article on handgun rights in Ca in today's SFGate:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/04/15/BA2J1O3418.DTL

[ted1]

If you do not have a license to carry concealed you can not carry concealed. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

This is incorrect. Here is what DOJ has to say on the subject:

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/Cfl2007.pdf?

Read through that or take a look at the calguns posts. There are several instances where one can carry concealed w/out a permit.

[Ralph]

@Ted1. I agree with you but wouldn't rely on a 2007 DOJ report as a legal reference. Just this last January we saw sweeping changes in CA firearm regulations.

[Bob Loblaw]

I trip and fall half a dozen times when I go fishing. I drop my rod a couple of times and I invariably lose something too. Sunglasses, hat, flybox, always something.

The very last thing I need to have in my pocket when I'm fishing is a gun. I'd shoot myself in the nuts first time out.

[huntindog]

i almost always carry..i have fishpond vest that I have found makes a perfect concealable holster...the inner front zip down pocket behind the pocket where you would typically keep a fly box works great for my small glock. it is easy access and always concealed...(I do have a CCW)..

[Rossflyguy]

If you do some research you can carry a concealed weapon while fishing or hunting, as long as you have a license to do either. Only time you aren't allowed is if there are signs posted "No Firearms" in the area you're fishing or hunting. If you Google concealed weapons while fishing, all the info you need is right there. I would also find out which national parks and forests do not permit guns. On a side note, you're not allowed to carry a concealed weapon while bow hunting which I find strange.

[goby]

Wow, it looks like I'm the only one who is anti-gun while fly fishing.

I'm sure many of you have run into bears. They amazing thing is that they are afraid of us. I've screamed at bears in the my fishing hole, and they run away. But I do respect them. When I leave the Trinity River at night and walk through the blackberry fields, I talk to myself in a loud voice. I want them to know I'm around. I don't care if people hear me and think I'm stupid. It's dark and very bushy.

I've never seen a mountain lion, and I'm not afraid of them. I would be if I lived in the city. When I lived in Orange County a few people were attacked by them. But in Trinity County, they don't attack adults.

BTW, I am an attorney. If I wanted to carry a concealed weapon, I'd pay the money for legal advice. I read that code section years ago, and it appears that you can carry a concealed weapon while fishing. But it's certainly worth $100 to get a criminal law attorney's opinion, and certainly cheaper than thousands of dollars in legal frees if you're wrong.

[Kevin Goding]

Getting a ccw permit is somewhat county specific in terms of the process and fees. Those living in Sacramento county, if you haven't applied already, you'll have to do so elsewhere. I'm fairly certain the sheriff's office has closed the process for the year as they're flooded out with applications. There are websites that are very helpful, and give county, by county information. Most counties have a residency requirement, but it can be waived or challenged in court apparently if you really have a need to get a ccw permit. The best advice of course is to find the nearest county handing them out on an as issue basis with no residency requirement and get it there.

[koffler]

Obscure but semi-related. If your driving through a federal park (ex. Yellowstone) with a shot gun or pistol the gun must be broken down (ex. 870 Remington - barrel off, etc. I think they even want the trigger disassembled (not a fast job)). This is per my brother in law in Wy who's a sheriff. We got out there quite a bit and make a big loop through NV, Utah, up into Wyoming/MT, exit northern Montana through Yellowstone, etc.

State rules maybe you can BS with, federal - I follow what they say.

jv

[beachjumper1]

after all this discussing all we have is an "it appears" that you might be allowed to ccw depending on the city and or county. New question,Who can you call to get a binding legal answer? And I dont mean a "it appears" or "check with DOJ". I suggest that each of us call our legislator and ask them. George

[YEM]

Wow, what a popular topic. I wouldn't describe myself as pro-gun or anti-gun, but I own lots of them and one thing I know is guns are heavy. I don't want to carry anything that weighs me down because I'm not a very good wader and sometimes I slip. I wish there was a wading staff with a sword inside because it would cover two bases at once, protection and wading support. God, I would love to post a picture here of a mountain lion I killed with my wading staff sword. I wonder if you need a permit for a concealed sword.

[pgw]

I wish there was a wading staff with a sword inside because it would cover two bases at once, protection and wading support. God, I would love to post a picture here of a mountain lion I killed with my wading staff sword. I wonder if you need a permit for a concealed sword.

I don't want to burst your bubble but, your wading staff sword may be classified as a cane sword which would place you in violation of section 12020 of the California Penal Code.

Paul

[jbird]

I wish there was a wading staff with a sword inside because it would cover two bases at once, protection and wading support. God, I would love to post a picture here of a mountain lion I killed with my wading staff sword.

Now thats funny! :-)

[huntindog]

Wow, it looks like I'm the only one who is anti-gun while fly fishing.

I'm sure many of you have run into bears. They amazing thing is that they are afraid of us. I've screamed at bears in the my fishing hole, and they run away. But I do respect them. When I leave the Trinity River at night and walk through the blackberry fields, I talk to myself in a loud voice. I want them to know I'm around. I don't care if people hear me and think I'm stupid. It's dark and very bushy.

I've never seen a mountain lion, and I'm not afraid of them. I would be if I lived in the city. When I lived in Orange County a few people were attacked by them. But in Trinity County, they don't attack adults.

.

for the record...i could care less about bears and lions...

[goby]

for the record...i could care less about bears and lions...

Oh, those 2 legged critters are scary!! We don't have them in Trinity County, but we had them in LA County. I get it. :)

[bigfly]

Long ago I had a warden tell me, he would trust an armed hunter, before he would trust an unarmed fisherman.
Apparently our veracity is in question....

I see wardens a fair amount, and they are serious about being on-guard.
(Truckee is a training area. But body armor is their normal work-wear.)
At times they take our rods away to feel safe, while checking paperwork.
(Especially the switch rod, imagine that thing going off...)
Wouldn't really want to have a chat while sporting a 44.
Maybe in AK, where everyone packs.
Here, it may lead to long tense conversations. (Fishing buzz kill.)
Even if it is legal.
Sierra bears don't worry me that much (Many dozens of encounters), (And in Truckee, no snakes...)
A cougar attacks from behind mostly.
So unless you can action shoot with a mirror......
I was stalked while answering natures call. My advise, don't squat in the dark....
If I get eaten in the back-country, at least I won't be pickled and planted in rows..

But don't wake me up, or walk into camp without a shout first...:-k


Jim

[Dave Neal]

Bigfly said, “Long ago I had a warden tell me, he would trust an armed hunter, before he would trust an unarmed fisherman”

I’ve heard this from wardens as well. It’s because MOST gun owners – especially hunters and avid shooters – are responsible adults that follow the law. They practice, shoot often, and understand the responsibility of owning a firearm. Especially those w/ CCW…

More kids today should be taught how to handle, load, shoot and respect a firearm, even if it’s just a BB gun or airsoft gun. Gun safety is important even if you don’t plan on owning one. This was all just part of growing up not too long ago.

Thankfully, my father exposed me to guns and hunting at a young age. But growing up in a “hunting” family, rather than a “shooting” family I valued orgs like Delta and Ducks Unlimited more than say, the NRA…

But that’s all changed now!!! Our gun rights are being stripped away each year (like the open carry ban in CA that happened so fast!!!). It’s scary to think what will happen in the future if sportsmen and women & shooting advocates don’t stick together. Sad to think of a society w/o the right to own firearms, for hunting AND sport shooting, defense, etc…

Don’t want to hijack this thread!! I just want to add that I spend hundreds of days a year in wild places, outdoors, mostly here in the Eastern Sierra. When I’m fishing/guiding I’m not worried about mt lions or bears at all – and we have MANY!!

I'm usually not worried about two legged creatures either on most of our local Eastside waters (we don’t even have problems w/ vehicle break ins) But there are some rivers and drainages in CA where I would might pack a firearm, some of the Valley Rivers, particularly. And the Public Lands pot grows are an increasingly scary reality to consider.

It’s a good idea to talk w/ professionals (like Frank at Sportsman’s or TaylerW etc). If you are interested in guns/shooting/hunting take a gun safety course or even Hunter’s Safety Course. It’s all very valuable and fun, too.

[lynnwhite44]

Wow, it sure appears as though a lot of fishermen are packin while out on water. It makes me think twice about confronting an angler who is crowding me or showing a lack of fishing etiquette for fear of someone brandishing a firearm. I have some non fishing friends who think I'm crazy to go out in the wilderness and not bring a handgun as I often venture out alone.

While fishing the uppersac just above Mossbrae Falls, hardly a desolate location, I walked up on a fly guy taking his lunchbreak he jumped up faced me and put his right hand down his back side and stood in that position during our whole encounter. I thought about it later and figured he was either grabbing his weapon or he had an itchy butt. I'm only 5'6" so I not very imposing. I now make sure I don't walk up on anyone.

Dave, they are not going to take your guns away.

[bigfly]

Dave, I'm with ya..
I've spent the majority of my life outside. Much of it alone...
The only time I get uneasy, is when I come down out of the hills.
Four legged critters may attack you, but never out of pure meanness.
Unlike two legged.

Gone are the days when everyone had guns, and very rarely anyone got shot.
Hell, I got a shotgun for Christmas when I was about eleven. I still haven't shot anybody.....
Doors were left unlocked too.
Of course, we didn't watch Platoon, or Magnum force, or Terminator, for fun.
Where did we go wrong?????

Never mind....

Jim

[Dave Neal]

Lynn, most people are not as fast as Wyatt Earp! LOL.

Being startled and getting in position to draw is a lot different than actually drawing and being ready & confident to pull the trigger. But, I would have reacted the same as you… a little uneasy at that situation w/ someone looking at a fellow angler while possibly ready to brandish a firearm.

As far as taking our weapons away… I felt the same as you years ago, “surely, our rights to bear arms will never go away”. I feel very differently now.

There are many advocates against gun ownership and they are getting increasingly more powerful each year. Believe what you want to, but it doesn’t hurt to have strong gun advocacy in place just in case.

In the not to distant past friends and neighbors of mine told me they would hunt before school, put their guns in the truck and birds in the ice chest. Race to school and have their guns in their trucks in the school parking lot. Nowadays the SWAT TEAM would be called and the kids would be deep trouble. These kids would NEVER even consider pulling out their guns to show anyone or otherwise.

Times have changed very quickly before our very own eyes.

@BigFly ditto for me, too. But I guess you get more comfortable in your local surroundings and where you often go in your area. It's all a personal decision. I wanted to stress that I don't personally feel the need to pack here along the Eastside, but some people may feel that need, or especially in other areas of the State. Legally of course.

[DFrink]

"They" are sure trying pretty hard.


Wow, it sure appears as though a lot of fishermen are packin while out on water. It makes me think twice about confronting an angler who is crowding me or showing a lack of fishing etiquette for fear of someone brandishing a firearm. I have some non fishing friends who think I'm crazy to go out in the wilderness and not bring a handgun as I often venture out alone.

While fishing the uppersac just above Mossbrae Falls, hardly a desolate location, I walked up on a fly guy taking his lunchbreak he jumped up faced me and put his right hand down his back side and stood in that position during our whole encounter. I thought about it later and figured he was either grabbing his weapon or he had an itchy butt. I'm only 5'6" so I not very imposing. I now make sure I don't walk up on anyone.

Dave, they are not going to take your guns away.

[JasonB]

I had a feeling this might turn into a pro gun/anti gun thread. I don't really want to hijack it any further from the original posters simple query for suggestions on how to cary. I would like to suggest one additional aspect of gun responsibility that I rarely see mentioned. You really should make certain that your fishing/traveling partners are notified that you are traveling with a gun. Some of us would be less than comfortable, or at least want to be aware that there is a gun that is present. I travel with some people who like to cary one, and I trust them to that end largely because I trust their sense of judgement in handling any *potentially* hazardous situation; then again there are quite a few people who I would NOT feel comfortable being on a trip if I knew that they had a firearm with them (for a variety of reasons).

To each their own, but I have always questioned which types of scenarios a gun *could* improve my sense of safety and which ones I feel it *could* actually increase the potential for things to go from bad to worse (say stumbling onto a pot farm operation). Probably a lot of situations, like Mt Lions for example, I doubt that it would make any real difference. I've thankfully had zero problems with any 4 legged critters, very few real run ins with the two legged threat. Of the ones that I have had, I honestly don't think that my situation would have been any better had I been carrying a weapon (of any sort). Traveling with dogs certainly can be a big help in nearly all these cases, depending on the dogs of course...

One thing is certain, is that carrying a weapon has the potential to change the dynamics of any situation, and not always for the better. Thus it's just good sense and proper respect that your fishing buddies should be aware of this if you choose to pack a weapon with you in the car and in the water.

[Ralph]

Well said Jason. On the VERY rare occasion I carry a gun, the simple fact that I have a weapon raises my discomfort rather than comfort level. It's a constant reminder that something might go wrong and if I'm that paranoid, perhaps I should be someplace else. Only on one occasion have I ever wished I had a firearm when I didn't, and only on one occasion was I truly happy to have one. . . and that time I had a shotgun and still felt very vulnerable.

[Hatch]

One of my clients is a Sac. county sherifs detective and sent m this.
HATC

Where can I legally Open Carry?
Loaded Open Carry is legal in your home, temporary residence or campsite (unless otherwise prohibited), place of business, private property, and in areas of unicorporated territory where shooting is not prohibited, including most areas within National Forest and BLM lands.
With AB 144 becoming law, Unloaded Open Carry of handguns is now illegal except where loaded open carry is legal, and also in public lands (National Forests, BLM, etc.) where firearms are permitted.
Unloaded Open Carry is still legal for long guns (rifles and shotguns) anywhere except the following places:
· schools and "school zones" (within 1000 feet of a K-12 school)
· California State Parks
· "federal facilities" within the National Parks (details)
· US Post Offices and other federal buildings
· any state or local public building or at any legislative meeting required to be open to the public
· the State Capitol, legislative offices, office of the Governor, Governor’s residence, etc.
· “sterile areas” (areas where access is controlled by security screening) of airports
· areas restricted by local city or county ordinance, often including regional parks
What about rifles and shotguns?
PC 12025, which makes carrying a concealed handgun illegal, does not apply to long guns so they can be carried concealed (in a vehicle, for example) or unconcealed. However all other laws apply (including PC 12031 which makes carrying loaded illegal under most circumstances).
Update: The new Unloaded Open Carry ban (AB 144) does not apply to rifles and shotguns

[jbird]

I had a feeling this might turn into a pro gun/anti gun thread. I don't really want to hijack it any further from the original posters simple query for suggestions on how to cary. I would like to suggest one additional aspect of gun responsibility that I rarely see mentioned. You really should make certain that your fishing/traveling partners are notified that you are traveling with a gun. Some of us would be less than comfortable, or at least want to be aware that there is a gun that is present. I travel with some people who like to cary one, and I trust them to that end largely because I trust their sense of judgement in handling any *potentially* hazardous situation; then again there are quite a few people who I would NOT feel comfortable being on a trip if I knew that they had a firearm with them (for a variety of reasons).

To each their own, but I have always questioned which types of scenarios a gun *could* improve my sense of safety and which ones I feel it *could* actually increase the potential for things to go from bad to worse (say stumbling onto a pot farm operation). Probably a lot of situations, like Mt Lions for example, I doubt that it would make any real difference. I've thankfully had zero problems with any 4 legged critters, very few real run ins with the two legged threat. Of the ones that I have had, I honestly don't think that my situation would have been any better had I been carrying a weapon (of any sort). Traveling with dogs certainly can be a big help in nearly all these cases, depending on the dogs of course...

One thing is certain, is that carrying a weapon has the potential to change the dynamics of any situation, and not always for the better. Thus it's just good sense and proper respect that your fishing buddies should be aware of this if you choose to pack a weapon with you in the car and in the water.

Excellent points Jason. You put my thoughts into words :-) The only thing I dont agree with is the thread becoming pro. vs. anti. In fact, Im shocked and very pleased with how civil this topic has remained.
I personally am pro-guns. I own guns but never pack them. I have a high caliber pistol for general home defense and a couple rifles for plinking. Like Ralph said, if youre packing it adds an aire of discomfort to your situation rather than comfort (IMO)

[JGB]

Pepper spray is far more effective on 4-leggers, Google it.

What happens to the poster who talked his way out of trouble with 2-leggers in the two incidents if he has a gun?

There's lots of places to fish, no fishing hole is worth a dead body or jail.

JGB(gun owner, and remote area fisherman)

[lynnwhite44]

JasonB, I agree with Jbird that was very well said.

Dave, maybe the guy wasn't packin but he was acting pretty wierd.

I don't own a gun but I believe in every law abiding citizen's right to own one(cue the star spangled banner). My brother in law brings one camping all the time but doesn't bring it out on the water. He likes the security it brings him at night.... I guess.

I have never had a situation where I wish that I had a gun and I was held up with a sawed off shot gun by 2 meth heads while working a register during my college days. I just gave them the money and they left. Scared the shit out of me though.

Another poster mention falling. I fall all the time while fishing and would probably end up shooting myself or worse my fishing partner. JasonB you don't want me packing while fishing with you.

Stay safe out there everyone and try not to shoot anyone.

All this gun talk makes we want to buy pepper spray.

[Lincoln Gray]

A CCW is very easy to obtain. Take the class, pay your fee and you will have your concealed weapons permit for two years (at least in Butte County)
I always carry. I am not afraid of the four legged animals, just the two legged ones that you have to keep an eye on. My .02

[Dabalone]

Responsible gun owners and carriers are assets, nothing to be feared from them. My neighbors would be very glad I lived next to them if something bad went down.

I see more and more groups of partying young guys and gals in remote areas of our rivers and forests, last year my son and his friend were fishing the Feather in a small aluminum boat when they noticed a bunch of drinking individuals on a beach across the river from them, shortly after they heard something hit their boat and then noticed things skipping across the water next to the boat. It was the people on the beach shooting at them with probably pellet guns. They picked up got around the bend and out of sight and then heard real gunshots. Beer can beach people, 20 mins from downtown Sacto, you don't have to get remote to worry about dangerous and stupid people. They left before the sheriff arrived, if they were brazen enough to directly shoot at someone with a pellet rifle its a small leap to the real stuff which they also had and the sheriff could have arrived to find a couple innocent people injured or dead and no perpetrators to be found. None of my family goes out now without protection.

[Ben Kobrin]

I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said, but I thought this thread needed a theme song...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U72ZRh4W8OU

"It can get you into trouble but it can't get you out."

I would consider myself on the pro-gun side of the fence. I own several guns but don't ever carry them. As has already been discussed, I believe bear spray is much more effective on 4 legged critters and I wouldn't trust that a gun would improve my situation against 2 legged trouble...hence the Johnny Cash lyric. If I were in law enforcement or had some training that would make me believe that a gun would give me an advantage in close range, hand-to-hand combat it may be a different story. However, I know that sitting behind a desk all week dreaming about steelhead doesn't give me a competitive edge against a meth head. I'll hand over my wallet, keys and anything else they ask for and then find a way home, alive, to my wife and two kids.

-Ben

And yes, I know that Steve Earle wrote the song but I like Johnny’s version better.

[lynnwhite44]

Ben, that 's a great song. I have the Steve Earle version already. Now I may have to get Johnny's version.

[Slice]

JasonB, I agree with Jbird that was very well said.

Dave, maybe the guy wasn't packin but he was acting pretty wierd.

I don't own a gun but I believe in every law abiding citizen's right to own one(cue the star spangled banner). My brother in law brings one camping all the time but doesn't bring it out on the water. He likes the security it brings him at night.... I guess.

I have never had a situation where I wish that I had a gun and I was held up with a sawed off shot gun by 2 meth heads while working a register during my college days. I just gave them the money and they left. Scared the shit out of me though.

Another poster mention falling. I fall all the time while fishing and would probably end up shooting myself or worse my fishing partner. JasonB you don't want me packing while fishing with you.

Stay safe out there everyone and try not to shoot anyone.

All this gun talk makes we want to buy pepper spray.

I have not seen anything in this entire thread that i have disagreed with. Lynn when you say you gave up the money you are right on. Anyone who would defend some (some) money with their life, someone elses, or years in court, is a fool or too proud. You made a smart move. Its or livelyhood, families and butts were concerned with.

As far as a misfire during a fall, impossible if you are a responsible gun owner. It doesnt happen. Someone will argue this but there is no way my piece will go off in my pocket. Who was that football player in the club?

i typically dont feel the need to carry while fishing but i do fish and camp alone alot remotely. If i have a gun with me camping, there is no way i will leave it in my car for it to fall into someone elses hands.

I think this is an interesting thread and enjoy hearing everyones opinions, they have all been good for such a diverse subject.

Also, the bear and mountain lion thing is silly, if you cant beat up a bear or mountain lion fisticuffs you are a p word. I do think the vast majority who have posted here are not concerned about animals(in california).

[jerry from sac]

Check this site out to see attacks just in California.
April 23 1994 is meaningful to me. Barbara was a friend of mine.
-
- http://tchester.org/sgm/lists/lion_attacks_ca.html

[troutosarus]

25 year in alaska and I never carried a handgun. After reading some of the responses from you guys I might start carrying one for the two legged animals.

[DFrink]

I have not seen anything in this entire thread that i have disagreed with. Lynn when you say you gave up the money you are right on. Anyone who would defend some (some) money with their life, someone elses, or years in court, is a fool or too proud. You made a smart move. Its or livelyhood, families and butts were concerned with.

As far as a misfire during a fall, impossible if you are a responsible gun owner. It doesnt happen. Someone will argue this but there is no way my piece will go off in my pocket. Who was that football player in the club?

i typically dont feel the need to carry while fishing but i do fish and camp alone alot remotely. If i have a gun with me camping, there is no way i will leave it in my car for it to fall into someone elses hands.

I think this is an interesting thread and enjoy hearing everyones opinions, they have all been good for such a diverse subject.

Also, the bear and mountain lion thing is silly, if you cant beat up a bear or mountain lion fisticuffs you are a p word. I do think the vast majority who have posted here are not concerned about animals(in california).

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[atavuss]

Looks like this would be just about perfect for carrying my Ruger Alaskan:
http://shop.simplyrugged.com/ecommerce/Chesty-Puller-Conversion-System.cfm?item_id=160&parent=672

[BillB]

Chesty Puller! That's a good one. My dad, God rest his soul, fought for Chesty Puller in the Pacific.

[DFrink]

Wow, that's pretty cool. Chesty is a legend to us Marines!

[Larry S]

I'll have to re-watch my "Victory at Sea" DVD's. I think that's also the nickname that
the Playboy mansion bunnies gave Hef.
Best,
Larry S

[Bitter Dave]

Resurrecting an old thread...

I recently attended a seminar about fishing in the Sierras and one of the things mentioned by the presenter was that he carries a pistol when fishing around the southern Sierra area. This got me thinking about the necessity of carrying. Reading through this thread it seems that wildlife isn't necessarily as much a concern (in CA at least) as the two-legged kind.

I realize that what I'm willing to carry isn't going to stop a bear and a mountain lion is probably going to get me before I have time to react. I don't have a problem walking around snakes. So what type of wildlife in CA do I really have to worry about?

How about the human kind? I'm curious if any of you have actually needed to use or brandish a pistol while fishing.

[Loomis 1]

To all, carrying a concealed weapon without a CCW is a violation of Ca. law. Back in the day law enforcement might ignore the fact if you were in a situation where you were forced to defend yourself, if you were illegally carrying a handgun. Today, if you are forced to display or even use a handgun in self defense, and were carrying the weapon concealed w/o a CCW, there is a very good chance you may be a arrested, or the investigating officers will file a report with the local district attorney requesting charges be filed against you.

I appreciate the belief of many that say that it would be worth it if it saves their life. I am in my 37th year of law enforcement. I have seen countless times the victim of a crime become the accused while defending himself or his family. If it is difficult to obtain a CCW where you live, you can always move up here to Yuba or Sutter Counties. The Sheriff's of these counties believe if you are a law abiding citizen with a valid reason, you are entitled to obtain one.

Bill Siler

[Ted S.]

Hey-

Very interesting thread with good info. I've personally never had a problem out in the sticks where a weapon would have been needed, although I was once stalked by what I think was a Mountain Lion along the John Muir Trail. Would never want to shoot a magnificent animal like that, anyway.

I have seen several conflicts on the San Lorenzo River during steelhead season, but, fortunately, none involving weapons. Idiots are a fact of life on a stream with so many people so close by...

T.

[Lance Gray]

Carry a firearm while fishing is a big responsibility. I carry a firearm everywhere I go. I am not really worried about wild animals, I am more worried about the two legged animals that I see while out in the woods. Having a firearm is just like having a clippers, leaders and tippet's for me. I carry a S&W 357 Mag Chief Special stainless steel. I have carried it everywhere. It's big enough and I have deer hunting rounds in it 180 grain bullets. Remember the frame is stainless steel. The inner workings are not all stainless. So when you get it wet make sure you do a good clean up on it. It's a little heavy than the air lights - but I don't have to worry about what load I can shoot. It will handle big heavy loaded magnum rounds or light 38 for target shooting. Great all around handgun. I even carry it at work as a one of my back up firearms.

Also be legal while you carry. Check out the DFG, Penal Codes and restriction in wilderness areas. if you get stopped by a law enforcement personal - make sure you inform them and that you have permits. Get a concealed weapons permit and make sure you practice with the firearm. Be careful and be safe with it.

Bill said something that is right on. I like to carry snake shot in mine. The first two rounds are usually snake shot in my revolver.

[JohnD]

I'd read about the concealed carry rule when you're fishing/hunting many years ago, but have never considered carrying. I've fished some sketchy places down around socal and still didn't carry. If I feel that unsafe then I'm not having any fun and might as well stay home. I fish to relax.
Hope the folks with snake shot aren't shooting too many snakes as we're invading their home, not the other way around. I've seen a few buzzworms while out fishing but only too photos.

[kylgrn]

I'm with John, I don't carry while I fish as I try to avoid fishing places that make me feel uneasy about encounters. If I do want to fish one of those places, I will typically just invite a buddy along. I do carry a K-Bar knife in my chest pack, even if someone were to pull a gun on me I would be happy if all that happened was he took my truck and wallet, no sense in getting into a shootout over a 2001 F150.

[steveg137]

wow I'm quite surprised about number people carrying while fishing. I can see the reason for it, I'll just stick to areas that I hope are safer and keep my fingers crossed.

good thread.

[TaylerW]

I carry a large caliber large frame revolver at all times when I am fishing. I carry it loaded and in plain sight. The only comment I have ever received from a LEO was regarding my holster and where he can buy one. I have been stalked by lions, spooked bears on my hike out, and stumbled into places that had things growing. I take my rights as a citizen very seriously, use them or lose them!

[Ed Wahl]

I carry a fully loaded 12 gauge shotgun with me at all times when out in the woods..................when I'm bird hunting.
And only then.
Tayler, no offense bud but I've had all those experiences many times over and never even thought about needing a gun.

I've been eyeballed by a mama cat as a potential food source but a gun never crossed my mind. I waved my rod case and spoke and she vanished without a trace. Really, no trace. No tracks, bent weeds, tufts of hair, nothing.

Hiking back up out of the North Fork once I clearly heard a bear foraging it's way towards me. I stepped off the trail and leaned against a tree to wait and get a look. Well, I never got that look as the wind wasn't in my favor. With the sounds about 50 yards out it got real quiet except for a loud sniffing noise and then the sound of a freight train heading away from me. Never crossed my mind to shoot it.

These animals are out there all the time and they are very little risk to adult male humans. The cat "stalking" me is a curious cat. A large one I'll grant you but still fairly predictable. Coyotes do it also. Never seen a bobcat do it but I'm sure that's just because they're so sneaky.

Now if you're fishing where you may have trouble with two legged animals I can see your point. Shoot a tweeker save a (fill in anything here).

And I would never shoot a snake.

Maybe I'm just damned lucky to still be alive, or it may be that the bears and lions aren't all that dangerous to humans.

Could go either way.

Ed

[JasonB]

I just have to say before this goes sideways, that perhaps we might leave this original thread "as is". All 8 pages (9 now!) relating to a simple request for info on options for how to cary a firearm while fishing. I was pleasantly surprised at how civil it remained, and despite some tangents here and there for the most part remained a fairly respectful debate, albeit not entirely "on topic". My best guess is that a lot of good people were being careful with their fingers and keeping a lot of knee jerk comments out of the discussion; which would be appropriate since the OP was hardly asking for opinions regarding guns, or gun control, or the bill of rights... or anything else surrounding a hot button topic. Just honest experiences and suggestions about carrying options.

I am sure there are plenty of strong opinions out there surrounding many of these issues, but I somehow doubt very much that anyone's mind will be changed based on a back and forth banter here about the merits or myths about carrying a firearm fishing. It would be a pretty cool thing to be able to ask a relevant question here without it boiling down to a rehashing of all the old arguments. This thread is pretty old. It was fairly civil, all things considered, and I would say let it die a peaceful death. If anyone is really dying for some inflammatory "debate" on gun control, immigration, gay marriage, abortion... etc, etc, etc... it's not that hard to find out there nowadays.

I'd offer my suggestions to the OP, but have no idea. Never needed, never carried, no interest ... but that is completely unrelated and beside the point.
my 2cents
JB