Simms Guide Boot/streamtread Review

[amoeba]

I thought I would post a review of the Guide Boots, since the first pair of mine - with the streamtread - began to delaminate after 6 uses. I was never real confident that I would survive in a stream with anything more than 2" cobbles, since there was no grip without studs. So - after getting the new boots - I purchased a set of star cleats, put them in, and mucked around one 3 streams (Carson, Middle Fork American, Yuba). Here are my findings:

1- cleats vs. felt - adds some traction; not as good as felt with studs. Very slick on the larger cobbles with moderate flow on the Yuba. In dead, or shallow water, it isn't that much worse than studded felt; but in waist deep or higher water, with slight flow, it feels like you are going to be swept away on that streamtread. I suspect the buoyancy in combination with the reduced traction, leads to this sensation.

2 - cleat durability - Not good. After the third use, two of the 16 star cleats had worn almost completely down. There is some kind of carbide grains welded to the cleat - and on some cleats they wear off. Not good for what? $30 or was it $40 bux? Another thing about the cleats, is the have this habit of "unscrewing" themselves, or loosening up.....how this happens is unclear, but it is of concern.

I should say, I also have Simms studs (the screws, not the cleats) on my felt G3's, which are of similar construction (they weld little tungsten carbide balls onto a screw). On some of those studs, the carbide balls fell off after about 20-30 days use. I had to buy another pack of studs (for $20) to replace 3-4 of them.

3 - streamtread - this is starting to delaminate again, at the toe, after the third use. I'll probably try to get 10 days out of this; if it delaminates much more, I'll have to send them back to Simms again, since I have trips planned to felt-free states later this year.

There is some discussion elsewhere of durability problems in some states, which you can find here http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/196817-Gear-Review-Simms-rubber-Vibram-boot-soles

but I haven't worn them long enough to know.

If anyone else has experienced the delamination issue (or, alternatively, has absolutely no delamination at the toe) - I'd appreciate a response as to when and how much. I'm having a hard time believing this is a defect in my shoes only - since it happened on both pairs.

4 - Leather - after 3 uses, I have one 2-3 inch rip half-way through the leather on one shoe (my guess is wood or sharp rock while wading; not in barbed wire or something sharp in a boat)- this particular leather seems to become "soft", when waterlogged, it's not the same quality as the G3's (which were more expensive, but aren't made in leather anymore) but it's comfortable.

5 - fit - wide. lots of room on the sides for extra socks, but not so much at the toe. It fits me. The G3's fit better.

All in all - I have come away from my Simms streamtread experience with an overpowering urge to buy a wading staff and bring an extra change of clothes in a dry bag.

[aaron]

is amoeba really hugh conway? this explains a lot...

[Mike R]

I have had the same problem with the soles delaminating on a pair of the new Freestones (with the rubber toecap) after no more than a few uses. Now, pretty much the only thing holding the soles on are the star cleats that I have installed, of which 4 have already fallen out and the others are worn down to tiny nubs. Tried aquaseal (because I needed the boots and couldn't really send them back and wait 3-4 weeks) but it didn't seem to bond to the vibram very well. I am hoping that I can find something to glue the soles back on or I will send them back and hope I don't get another pair of boots with delaminating rubber

Sorry to hijack this thread but, dang, what happened to Simms? Has their quality gone down so low that they can't even get the soles of their boots to stay on? And this is coming from someone who, in the last 10 years, has owned 6-7 pairs of simms waders, 8-9 pairs of simms boots, 5 simms jackets, and enough simms gloves/hats/underwear to outfit an army batallion.

Please excuse my rant...just cranky after losing an hour of sleep.

Mike

[KJE]

I've had major issues with Simms boots and have switched to Patagonia for good. Why?

A pair of Freestones suffered from major cracking of the uppers after a very brief time, with the synthetic upper tan basically disintegrating in short order. Nearly all of the thick brown layer cracked off, with the white layer underneath exposed all over. A pair of Guide felts suffered from shoddy stitching, which came apart after a couple of days. The leather also cracked/ripped in several places, much as the original poster noted.

It seems clear that the problems with both pairs may be attributed directly to manufacturing defects and/or use of low-grade materials which don't justify Simms' pricing. When contacted about the Guides, I was met with heavy skepticism and told to send them in and maybe they would repair them. Bollocks! For $200, your product should survive its intended use for more than a few days on the water.

If my Patagonias go bad (which they haven't), I send 'em in and have a new pair sent back in a week, no questions asked. Same with waders. Are their goods made overseas? Some of 'em, yeah. Do they meet or exceed the quality of domestic competition? Definitely. Do they provide superior service and stand behind their products? Without question.

[amoeba]

Not sure who hugh conway is (google search fails to reveal relevance to this):

But as KJE, and reviews on TGR and Cabelas website attests, I'm not the only person on the planet with this delamination problem. I do have a couple other followups to KJE's post.

1. The freestones, I don't believe, are organic leather, like the guides. Rather - it's some synthetic stuff. I own those too...errr....or what's left of them....which wasn't much after ~14 days of heavy duty wading.

2. Exposed stitching (in guides or any other boot with it). I had this happen just once, on Danner's leather/kevlar. Since then for new boots - O have put a thin bead of aquaseal on all exposed stitching. Never had a failure of the stitching after that.

3. Hmmm. MikeR says Aquaseal no worky? I'll give it another 7 days max, and if the streamtread peels much more, back to the manufacturer they go. Again.

[aaron]

Not sure who hugh conway is (google search fails to reveal relevance to this):


my bad, thought you might have change for a nickel. carry on.

[Siskiyoublues]

My freestones have held up for 4 months of fishing 3 or 4 times a week and they are still in good shape. The vibram is a little worn but I think they grip better once they are a bit scuffed (no science behind that one though). The uppers have held up very well. I'm usually really tough on footwear and gear in general.
I never used simms studs instead I have unbranded ones from the local shop that have held up better then I expected. I am going to change them soon but for a bit less then 10 dollars for the whole bunch that's ok.

I'm not a huge fan of Simms in general and don't expect to buy many more of their products in the future but these boots have been ok to me. I just wanted to chime in with another opinion.

That being said I'm getting some patagonia riverwalker's for my next boot. I really like those. And I'm going back to felt.

[TaylerW]

for the cleats, if you throw a decent amount of aquaseal on the threads before you screw them in your good to go. never had one loosen up.

i have worn the same pair of riverteks for two years of guiding in AK, and just decided to get a new pair.

beat the crap out of my g4's and they took it like a champ. kneeling in gravel, jumping in and out of boats....they did what they were supposed to...

not sure why everyone is hating on simms. especially when referring to patagucci......

my 0.02

[Dave E.]

I do as Taylor does with pre-treating the screw threads, but in my case I use Pliobond. Never had one loosen up on it's own, but I can back them out with a socket when I want to change out a worn one. I've also not had any issues with using 1/2" - #8 zinc plated slot / hex head, type A sheet metal screws to augment what I saw as a shortage of Hardbite studs that Simms places in the package. What's strange to me, is that the Harbite Studs seem to get ground down and wear out faster than the sheet metal screws do.
No delaminating problems "yet" with the Rivershed model with vibram soles ( Keeping my toes crossed, that it stays that way ) , but I've only been using them for about 9 months.

Dave

[Mike R]

I wasn't hating on Simms, just Simms' boot soles. The rest of the boot is great and one of the more comfortable boots I've worn (save for the old style guide boots after they had been broken in and soaking wet for a month or so; just like a pair of slippers). That's one of the reasons I am cranky about it. I want my comfy boots to have the soles stay on! Sooo, they are headed back to Simms to see what they can do.

It seems like some of the boots got glued correctly and others did not because I have seen different levels of delamination in the same boot model and year.

I'll have to try popping in the studs with some adhesive next time. Seems like it works well.

Mike

[shawn kempkes]

I wasn't hating on Simms, just Simms' boot soles. The rest of the boot is great and one of the more comfortable boots I've worn (save for the old style guide boots after they had been broken in and soaking wet for a month or so; just like a pair of slippers). That's one of the reasons I am cranky about it. I want my comfy boots to have the soles stay on! Sooo, they are headed back to Simms to see what they can do.

It seems like some of the boots got glued correctly and others did not because I have seen different levels of delamination in the same boot model and year.

I'll have to try popping in the studs with some adhesive next time. Seems like it works well.

Mike

Request that the replace them with studded felt and be done with it.

[Mike R]

Request that the replace them with studded felt and be done with it.

That's my (sinister) plan.

Mike

[amoeba]

...namely, States where felt is not allowed....and I can't be glueing in the studs, since I need to occasionally take them out for float trips (in other people's craft, rentals, that don't allow studs):

Honestly - I too think Simms makes the best fitting and, until recently, the longest lasting wading boots in the industry. But whatever technical issues are causing the delamination problem, Simms needs to solve it. Vibram soles just have to stay on, and by that I mean completely on (no flaps dangling at the toe) for the life of the sole, alot longer than 3-6 days of use I've been getting.

I'm not going to mess with glue and nails keep soles of wading shoes on. Back to Simms they will go. I'll let you know the results of pair #3 after the next exchange.

[TomV]

I must say that I have had a great experience with my Simm's Rivershed boots from 2008, which was the first year, and they still had the studded Aquastealth soles. They have held up great with 4 seasons of use and they are comfortable and stable. I almost most always use a staff and they are great while hiking in to fish, especially with snow on the ground during steelhead season. Probably the weakest link are the laces, which lasted a couple of years for me.

[cyama]

The new rivershed boots are a little cheaper than the new guide boots and are very comfortable and durable. Make sure to buy star cleats and install them before use. I put five cleats in the front and three in the back. I now feel like a gecko on glass. Install the cleats on the outer portion of the sole with one in the middle.

I don't know what the problem is with others boots, but I have sent old Guide boots back to Simms and they have sent me a brand new pair of boots. My old boots were like 3 years old and they had they the round dot rubber soles with studs built in. The new Rivershed boots with Star Cleats are way better for gripping slippery rocks on the Stan, Upper Sac, Yuba and Pit. Wade with confidence!!!

[TaylerW]

if your soles are just coming off, that is most assuredly a defect.

ive been wearing the same boots for almost 28 months and i fish alot.

i decided it was time to replace my boots not because the soles were coming off, but because the soles looked like a shoe equivalent to racing slicks.

[Mike R]

Update:

Simms has replaced the defective-soled boots. They sent me another pair of rubber soled boots so we'll see if they were glued correctly.

Also, if anyone wants to trade a brand-new sz 12 Freestone boot with Vibram soles for a brand new pair of the felt models, lemme know.

Mike

[Siskiyoublues]

My freestones have held up for 4 months of fishing 3 or 4 times a week and they are still in good shape. The vibram is a little worn but I think they grip better once they are a bit scuffed (no science behind that one though). The uppers have held up very well. I'm usually really tough on footwear and gear in general.
I never used simms studs instead I have unbranded ones from the local shop that have held up better then I expected. I am going to change them soon but for a bit less then 10 dollars for the whole bunch that's ok.

I'm not a huge fan of Simms in general and don't expect to buy many more of their products in the future but these boots have been ok to me. I just wanted to chime in with another opinion.

That being said I'm getting some patagonia riverwalker's for my next boot. I really like those. And I'm going back to felt.

Well I have to amend this post I made a bit ago. My under 5 month freestones have the stream-tred sole peeling off on both boots. Planning on sending them to simms on monday. Hopefully the turn around is quick.
Looks like I'm going to have to buy another pair of boots for the season opener. :rolleyes:

[amoeba]

The third pair of guide boots with streamtread has made it through the first 10 days of fishing without any peeling; more than the first two pairs. I will post a second update after more use....

[mr. 3 wt.]

Any more updates? I will be working out a pair of Riversheds this season. Gonna try the alumabites on them. I will have my Pat. Riverwalkers with felt/stud combo with me too just in case.

[mr. 3 wt.]

Ok, tried out my alumabite cleated boots this last weekend and they rock! I had my doubts but I was quite impressed. Even on dry rocks they gripped really well. Thumbs up!

[AnadromousFly]

I have my 2007 guide boots with felt and pin studs. I have we'll over 600 days on them and no problems. The dog chewed the loop off the back of one. I fish hard, hiking in as well as in and out of both aluminum and glass boats. The pins are really worn out but the boots are still together. Since 2008 I think Simms has really fallen in the quality of each piece but it is the only company I wear, still!