Winter Fishing ???

[DFrink]

This is something that I have pondered for some time. I understand (I think) why most streams slow down in winter. What puzzled me is why other streams (i.e. Truckee Rivers, Yuba) seem to fish year round? Is it the size of the stream / river, water temp (Truckee gets pretty cold)? Someone on here should be able to answer this mysterly that has me puzzled!

[KJE]

Not that anyone would know (possible exception the TNC caretaker) or could get there, but if the McCloud was open I'd wager that it would be great all winter. Steady tailwater flows, moderate elevation, copious midge and mayfly populations...

A guy can dream, can't he?

[Woodman]

Fish gotta eat. It's the fisherman that want to stay indoors, or watch football, or hunt ducks, or whatever.

[JasonB]

Funny you should post this, as I've been wondering similar things for a bit now. Almost posted a question just yesterday on this. I was more wondering why it seems that smaller trout in particular just seem to vanish during the colder water temps. Seems like they would still need to eat?

I just went out to a local creek the other day, one that's usually loaded with small rainbows and browns. There was quite a lot of bug activity, and I was pretty confident on my imitations and even had some really solid presentations when I could keep my flies out of the bushes. Not one bite, nor did I even see any fish. After a bit I actually started tromping through water that I thought should hold fish just to see if I could spook something up... nothing.

It also seems like I catch some smaller fish here and there on the Truckee in warmer water conditions but to date I've caught very few fish under about 15" during the winter months. Seems kind of odd to me :-k
I did find quite a few smaller rainbows active on the Yuba today, but then again the water temps are much warmer there than any other waters I've fished all winter...
JB

[Frank R. Pisciotta]

OK, the subject title is intented for the older genration on this BB. Remember the memorable Mrs. Robinson? :D

a simple one-word on this thread topic....Thermometer

Frank R. Pisciotta

[JasonB]

OK, the subject title is intented for the older genration on this BB. Remember the memorable Mrs. Robinson? :D

a simple one-word on this thread topic....Thermometer

Frank R. Pisciotta

With great respect, I don't think it's quite that simple. Take the Truckee example, where I've caught fish with water temps below 40. I most certainly can't say the same over here on most (but not all) of the streams I fish on the west side. I think we can all agree that when the water is a bit warmer that the fish in general get far more active, but there are still some questions regarding winter fishing imo...

Where do all the little guys go when the water temps are that cold, if the big boys are still being caught? (I don't think I'm the only one who seems to only catch larger fish when the water temps are down... am I?)

Do some streams perhaps have higher minimum temps to make the trouts active?

Does size matter? (the FISH that is, do smaller fish respond differently to water temps)

It seems like the east side in general tends to produce fish in much colder conditions than the west, could the alkalinity have something to do with this?

JB

[DFrink]

I'm with Jason on this one. It's not as simple as taking the temp and deciding wether or not to fish. I agree on the small streams on this side of the hill shutting down in winter, where as the Lower Yuba, Truckee's, Sac all seem to fish year round. Can't tell me the water in Truckee isn't colder than some of the low foothill streams near my place. So what gives? Also I bet plenty of the small streams in the Truckee area with similar water temps to the big rivers don't fish well in winter? I'm waiting for Ralph to write something...

By the way, just noticed the thumbs down? Did I do that?

[fj40]

I think the small fish dont need as much to survive and therfore can go into hibernation mode in the colder water better than the big fish which have to keep eating to support themselves??? Big guess

[Morgan]

Id have to agree w/ these colder fishable waters and big fish. In the winter w/ the flows being lower it seems the fish are on average bigger than those caught in the summer months. The bigger fish need to eat in order to stay healthy. When the smaller fish can just eat a few bugs and stay content...?

Or is it that in the summer the bugs are more plentiful. Therefore, there are more fish actively eating. If that is the case it just shows that the big fish are that much more selective on what they eat in the summer time. Therefore, you need to know the holes they lay in as well as give them something worth eating.

[Frank R. Pisciotta]

I don't think it's quite that simple.

JB

It was intended to be simple. Unfortunately, I 'm preparing for the Pleasanton Fly Fishing right now, so I'm going make a quick exit from this thread because it can very well get interesting and long...and I have to focus on the show.

I'll be in the Truckee Guide NetWork booth...come by and introduce yourself.

Someone mentioned Ralph...maybe he will chip-in here...

Frank R. Pisciotta

[Frank R. Pisciotta]

OK...I've finished with my Pleasanton Fly Fishing Show preparation. I have a few moments to comment on this thread.

First of all, I'll be honest about winter flyfishing on the Truckee River since there has been 2-3 comments about this specific fishery. Fishing on the Truckee from below town to the CA/NV stateline was not allowed until March of 2007. So, I've only had three (3) full winter seasons fishing the river in the winter, on the California side. I'm confident that the commnets received here are also limited to that amount of time, so we're all pretty new at this. So I have limited experience in the winter. I'm always willing to learn; being a perpetual student in my fly-angling...so educate me.

In my 30+ years of fly fishing the Truckee River extensively I have seldom experienced Nevada fishing on the Truckee in the winter, nor the East Walker tailwater there... neither the few trout streams on the west-slope that are "open" (Yuba is one).

As for my simplistic one-word implication about water-temps...I still stand by that because I believe that water-temps are critical to a trout's feeding metabolism. Granted one can make adjustments on technique, timing, and type of water fished because that is what we do to optimize our results. Also a distinction should be made relative to tailwater and freestone fisheries. IMO, temperature ranges are more critical in latter than the former.

In the Pro-Tip column in the soon to be published and/or on-line Spring '12 issue of Sierra Fisherman magazine(www.sierrafisherman.com) some comments may shed light on fishing in cold water along with some suggested methods...granted not winter fishing, but some advice may be pertinent.

Frank R. Pisciotta

[Frank R. Pisciotta]

I'm shut-in with this snowfall and have some time to re-read this thread. Two contributors have mentioned about their experience fishing small streams in the winter on the west-slope.

My question is: Which small creeks are open in the winter on the west-slope? :?

Currently it has been snowing steadily for two days. I've received 18"-20" of new snow at my 6500' home in Truckee. This is sorely needed for the fish since we're way below normal as of February 1st measurements (...37% of normal for the central Sierra!).

I read a report that this week was going to be a good time to to fly fish this area because other anglers are non-existent and solitude is the rule with possibly willing trout...forgetaboutit for now. Go into Nevada and closer to the CA/NV border if you venture this way.

Frank R. Pisciotta

[KJE]

Not sure what creeks these guys were referring to, but the entire American River drainage is open year-round. Plenty of small stuff open there, though access is pretty slim (when we have actual snowpack) and I'm a believer that smaller trout go dormant in low temps.

[JasonB]

I'm shut-in with this snowfall and have some time to re-read this thread. Two contributors have mentioned about their experience fishing small streams in the winter on the west-slope.

My question is: Which small creeks are open in the winter on the west-slope? :?
...
Frank R. Pisciotta

Frank, there's a lot of stream miles open on this side in the winter. I was mainly referring to a few American river tribs that are normally VERY productive and loaded with smaller fish. The comments about smaller fish going more dormant sure seems to mesh well with my own experiences, but never really made a lot of sense imo. Even finding a fish, let alone getting one to bite can be tough around these parts in the winter. It's like they vanish, or something. One of the many mysteries of fishing to me :-k

I'm thinking that the insect life in each river system probably plays a huge role in this too, as some river systems have really consistent insect hatches year round while others not so much. The American river system in general is not exactly known for it's large and abundant hatches, particularly in the winter time. Seems that *almost* every time I make it up to the Truckee in the winter there are tons of midges skimming the eddies...

Oh well this whole discussion will soon be a moot point for a while as spring is looking like it's on its way and the fish are starting to get a bit more active. Before we know it things will come alive all over the state, I'm keeping buys tying plenty of dry flies in eager anticipation...
JB

[Frank R. Pisciotta]

KJE & Jason B----Thanks for the info. I just picked-up & checked the California 2012-13 Freshwater Sport Fishing Regulations I should have have looked at the regs before posting my inquiry.

OK, so all tribs on the North, Middle & South Forks of the American and their tribs above Folsom Lake are open year around (page 33, 7.50 (b) (4.5). Thanks again for the clarification; I simply never paid much attention.

Frank R. Pisciotta

PS....personally I'm hoping for a "Miracle March". I just as soon wait longer for consistent dry fly activity; the trout need the water.

[Scott V]

PS....personally I'm hoping for a "Miracle March". I just as soon wait longer for consistent dry fly activity; the trout need the water.

I'm hoping for a miracle March and April with a few storms thrown in here and there in May. I love the rain and snow.

[Ed Wahl]

I've wondered myself where they disappear to in the colder months. We're probably talking about the same streams here, but of course I'm not naming names either.
These small streams are chock full of trout all summer long. Then when winter sets in it's a total blank. These are gin clear waters, it's not like we're not getting bit, there are just no fish to be seen.
I guess someone will have to don a dry suit and snorkel and go roll some rocks, maybe they're lying dormant underneath them.

I personally think they go to Florida in the winter.

How about it Bill K.? See any 6 inch Rainbows down there with cameras around their necks drinking and getting tanned?

Ed

[Ralph]

Latecomer to this thread, but a couple of people have already made the right guess. Big fish need more food than small fish, especially when the temps are cold.

Temperature plays a huge part in a trout's metabolism. The effect of temperature and size of the trout on it's energy requirements have been studied to death.

Once water drops below 44F a trout's metabolism operates at a base rate that doesn't change much even if the water drops another ten degrees. Above 44F the metabolism and requirement for food quickly ramps up.

Even though, per ounce, big fish have a lower resting metabolism than small fish, they still have a lot more ounces that need to be served. When water drops below 44F a small fish can take a few bites and call it a day, while a big fish has to continue to feed just to maintain its standard metabolism. Throughout the winter small fish generally maintain their weight and in some cases even gain weight, while most larger fish lose some weight.

As the water climbs above 44F and little fish start to eat more, they expend more relative energy swimming, hunting, feeding and digesting than their larger brothers, hence they have to eat relatively more than the big guys.

[Ed Wahl]

Ralph, so these typically small fish in the American River tribs actually can tuck under a rock and stay there for long periods in a somewhat dormant state when the water temps drop below 44f?
Ed

[Ralph]

Ralph, so these typically small fish in the American River tribs actually can tuck under a rock and stay there for long periods in a somewhat dormant state when the water temps drop below 44f?
Ed

Not truly dormant, but they do snuggle under the covers. It is truly amazing what happens when you light up an electroshocker in an apparently fishless creek.

[Dave Neal]

Ralph, your experience and concise explanation was great.

Water temp is obviously a huge factor. If one is to go winter fishing, consider the type of water you are venturing to: tailwater, spring creek, freestone, stillwater... each of these fisheries near the same altitude in the same region can have vastly different water temperatures! Some may be more productive than others...

I notice a big difference in brown trout on the Lower Owens once the water gets above 44, then 46, then 50... Look out!!!!!

I've been squatting in a duck blind on Hot Creek in middle of January, freezing my a$$ off, watching fish sipping on the surface before sunrise! Being mostly spring-fed, the water was "warm" near 50 deg.

Good advice is to take a thermometer and use it against your observations, make notes, apply over time.

[DFrink]

Thanks Ralph. That answer makes sense, and is what I was looking for when I started this thread. The temperature part makes sense with the additional information on the small trout metabolism. Maybe I wasn't clear that the
"streams" I was asking about generally hold smaller fish. Actually what I was really looking for was a reason to go fish some small streams, but this time of year it just never seams to pan out. :(

Dan