Read Bob Valentine's Post

[Tony Buzolich]

If you have been following and questioning any of this discussion about striped bass I urge you to read the most recent post on Dan's Board posted by Bob Valentine.

I have known and fished with Mike Costello since he first started here and I have never had anything but the greatest respect for him, and the same goes for Dan Blanton himself whom I've considered a friend for over twenty years. These guys don't exaggerate, they don't have too. Both are pillars in the industry of fly fishing striped bass.

When I read their posts in responces to Marty Gingris's comments and his "scientific evidence", I now have to question this evidence as well. It becomes more and more apparant why we are not getting the help we need from the DFG and any scientific evidence they provide is totally biased.

I cannot help but think about a recent HBO documentary called "Too Big To Fail" and how our banking system almost totally collapsed affecting the entire world market. This might just be the same as the agricultural market in our great state, and for this ag market to fail because of lack of water would be devestating. Stewart Resnick and Paramont Farms must think they're "Too Big To Fail" as well.

For Marty Gingris to say that both Dan and Mike are outright lieing just discounted any previous scientific evidence and respect I had for him and the DFG.
TONY

[Marty Gingras]

For Marty Gingris to say that both Dan and Mike are outright lieing just discounted any previous scientific evidence and respect I had for him and the DFG.

Just so you know...

I didn't call either of those guys liars, because doing that would be to say they intend to deceive and I have no idea what their intent is. I said Mike is wrong. There is a world of difference between calling someone a liar and saying someone is wrong. I haven't replied about Dan's assertion because I was too ticked off that he called me a liar.

Mike seems like a nice guy, but is asserting simultaneously that his exact quote of me --- which he says he got during a phone call when he was on the water --- has two exact readings: (1) "The farmers have given up a lot over the last several years, it's time that anglers also do the same" and (2) "The farmers have made sacrifices now it's time for anglers to do the same." Clearly those are not a single quote from me. Perhaps imperfect paraphrases of what he thought I said.

Dan has been on my case for years and this is just a recent iteration of that. Why he didn't bring this up for the purposes of clarification long ago I don't know.

What I have said a number of times is something to this effect: Striped bass anglers have suffered --- in the form of reduced striped bass abundance, size, and catch rate --- from the decline (or during the decline) in Central Valley anadromous fish populations. The present proposal would have them suffering somewhat more.

"He-said, she-said" is a risk of speaking with folks, especially folks with a strong interest in a controversial topic, which is why I like writing things out. Feel free to quote me day-in, day-out about what I've written.

W/regard to discounting scientific evidence, that wouldn't be fruitful. In fact, anyone who does runs the risk of being 'marginalized'. It is what it is. It's been used for decades to monitor fish populations and in efforts to protect the listed species. You can have it and work with it yourselves.

I've already given Bob Valentine the fish information available and we've got a dialog open about what more he can try to do on behalf on the striped bass angling community with that and other available data.

[Darian]

Hmmm,.... I've been following this on Blanton's BB for some time now and, unless I missed something, Marty never called anyone a liar in any of his posts. Seems to me that there's so much emotion surrounding the discussion of the DFG regulatory proposal over there that it's difficult to remain focused and objective. Kinda like "bandwagon politics". Someone makes an emotional statement and everyone's jumping on board.... However, now is not the time for "he said, she said" as Marty put it. :-|

Tony,.... I believe that you're right about big-ag in CA as being the gorilla in the room and that water is what drives that business. Currently, the best source of water for that activity is the Delta and, unless we guard that resource zelously, the Delta environment will continue to decline until it becomes nothing more than a viaduct.... But that's not the issue we're dealing with here. :-|

This proposal comes from a court approved, settlement agreement which arises from the suit about predation of Striped Bass on listed species (statement not entirely accurate but....). That agreement requires that DFG propose changes to the F&G Regulations. The science used in support is the "best available" not perfect science but it's all there is on the subject of predation by Striped Bass. In times of diminishing resources, the best science sometimes comes from other agencies/entities. We may see it as biased, incomplete or flawed but in the absence of better science, if you're DFG, you play the cards you're dealt. It is what it is. Does that mean we just accept that it cannot be questioned, debated or opposed :?: Certainly not. :cool:

I've mentioned the reasons for settlements in other threads. So, I won't go further here. Suffice to say that we have to deal with the predation issue first. Then we try to influence DFG and water agencies to prioritize negative influences (including water issues) on listed Delta species. Out of that process, water related problems will rise to the top as those are the real demons here. :)

[Frank Alessio]

Wow what drama....He said she said.... I say FOLLOW THE MONEY....

[Mrs.Finsallaround]

Hmmm,.... I've been following this on Blanton's BB for some time now and, unless I missed something, Marty never called anyone a liar in any of his posts. Seems to me that there's so much emotion surrounding the discussion of the DFG regulatory proposal over there that it's difficult to remain focused and objective. Kinda like "bandwagon politics". Someone makes an emotional statement and everyone's jumping on board.... However, now is not the time for "he said, she said" as Marty put it. :-|

Tony,.... I believe that you're right about big-ag in CA as being the gorilla in the room and that water is what drives that business. Currently, the best source of water for that activity is the Delta and, unless we guard that resource zelously, the Delta environment will continue to decline until it becomes nothing more than a viaduct.... But that's not the issue we're dealing with here. :-|

This proposal comes from a court approved, settlement agreement which arises from the suit about predation of Striped Bass on listed species (statement not entirely accurate but....). That agreement requires that DFG propose changes to the F&G Regulations. The science used in support is the "best available" not perfect science but it's all there is on the subject of predation by Striped Bass. In times of diminishing resources, the best science sometimes comes from other agencies/entities. We may see it as biased, incomplete or flawed but in the absence of better science, if you're DFG, you play the cards you're dealt. It is what it is. Does that mean we just accept that it cannot be questioned, debated or opposed :?: Certainly not. :cool:

I've mentioned the reasons for settlements in other threads. So, I won't go further here. Suffice to say that we have to deal with the predation issue first. Then we try to influence DFG and water agencies to prioritize negative influences (including water issues) on listed Delta species. Out of that process, water related problems will rise to the top as those are the real demons here. :)

DITTO :nod:

[Scott V]

For Marty Gingris to say that both Dan and Mike are outright lieing just discounted any previous scientific evidence and respect I had for him and the DFG.
TONY

I've been following Marty's posts as well and I have not ever read where Marty called either of them liars. Unless you have proof that he called them liars you owe Marty an apology. If you are going to make such claims you have to back it up with proof.

[Ed Wahl]

Unless my take on Marty's participation here is wrong he's putting it out there not as help for 'our' side or 'theirs' but simply to supply information on the collected data and insight into DFG procedures.

I'd rather not see the rudeness here that sprung up on Dan's board as it gets us nowhere and diminishes respect for those involved.

Ed Wahl

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Wow what drama....He said she said.... I say FOLLOW THE MONEY....

Wow Frank, that is wild. Just today I was telling my wife that it is all about the big money and everything else is just meaningless.

Big money always wins.......get use to it.