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Tony Buzolich
12-03-2011, 09:42 AM
Woodman, I have to say that is an interesting read with an incredible amount of detailed information. Bias or otherwise it still touched on two areas of predation that I'm familiar with, that being the pikeminnow (squawfish) and the sea lions.

It seems to me that the greatest mortality to smolt would be throughout the upper river systems where the squawfish flourish and are in mass as they migrate out to sea. On page 85 of that report it shows a 21" squawfish with 34 juvenile salmon in it's belly. That's incredible how much they eat, but what's even more amazing is how many and how large these squawfish get in size. At every marina on the river where there is a cleaning station with a shute the river is solid black with squawfish eating an easy meal. Can you imagine what they are doing to the smolt when they get released into the system? And the size of them is often huge twice the size of the one in the picture. Here's Frank holding a big squawfish that are here by the thousands. Think how many smolt they must eat!

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/buzolich/IMGP0023-1.jpg

As for the sea lions, Geez, I've never seen so many as we have recently. The mouth of the Russian River at Jenner is stacked wall to wall with them and with signs saying not to disturb or harass them. How the hell ANY salmon or steelhead makes it through this barrier of animals would also be amazing. I'm sure every river mouth along the entire Pacific coast must have the same kind of problem .Take a look at page 126 of that report.

Interesting too is how the downstream smolt are being re-directed to the south and central parts of the delta rather than out to sea in the bay. Un-natural changes in water flow direction (pumps and gates) directs these smolt into a more toxic enviroment before getting to the bay,,,,,if they do at all.

The one other thing that I'm suprized Vogel DIDN'T touch on is MERGANZERS! They're everywhere there are small fish coming through. On the Feather there are often flocks of them flying to the shallow riffle areas where they gorge on fry and smolt. Rafts of them like patrol boats surrounding schools smolt.


Obviously there are multiple reasons for the decline in the salmon runs but to target striped bass as the main reason is wrong. I have no doubt in my mind that these "NATIVE" predators ( pikeminnows, merganzers, and sea lions) do a whole lot more eating of smolt and adult salmon than we can even imagine. Why isn't something being done to control this NATIVE menace?

Okay, I've ranted enough, but it's a damn shame to see striped bass getting blamed entirely for the sake of other more NATIVE or Federally Protected animals that are doing as much or more damage to reduce salmon stocks in our system.
TONY

Marty Gingras
12-03-2011, 10:27 AM
Obviously there are multiple reasons for the decline in the salmon runs but to target striped bass as the main reason is wrong.

Just to be clear, I have never seen or read anything from anyone doing science --- consultants to the Water Interests included --- suggesting striped bass are the main reason for salmon declines. If we thought they were, we would say so.

Regarding pinnipeds, see this report:

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/pdfs/sars/po2007slca.pdf

Frank Alessio
12-03-2011, 02:10 PM
Let us cut through the chase here.... LIBERALS are very simple minded... IN school they only learned Subtraction... They missed the day that ADDITION was taught.......

Darian
12-03-2011, 04:51 PM
Geezzzz Frank!!! I'm not sure how conservative or Liberal politics fits here.... :confused:

In answer to Tony's question about predators other than Stripers, check out the link:

www.dfg.ca.gov/delta/reports/delta-organisms-stressors-report-20100728.pdf

This is a report by DFG to the F&G Comm in 2010. It covers a prioritized list of stressors on listed species in the delta. On pages 36 thru 38 there's a bunch of references to predators of listed species in the Delta. The headings include, "NON-NATIVE FISH PREDATORS", "NATIVE FISH PREDATORS", "AVIAN PREDATORS" and "MAMMALIAN PREDATORS". Kinda sounds like DFG has covered identifying predators. :|

IMO, we really need to concentrate on the settlement agreement and whether it is/was reasonable to establish the proposed bag/possession limits to accomplish relief for listed species based on available information. Also, how the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) applies to this situation since there will undoubtedly be some economic damage if proposed changes to the regs are adopted.... :)

Marty Gingras
12-03-2011, 05:30 PM
...we really need to concentrate on the settlement agreement and whether it is/was reasonable to establish the proposed bag/possession limits to accomplish relief for listed species based on available information. Also, how the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) applies to this situation since there will undoubtedly be some economic damage if proposed changes to the regs are adopted...

If the Commission decides to begin a public process designed to lead to a regulation change, we'll do CEQA. No need/nexus for NEPA, because that's for actions by the federal government.

Larry S
12-03-2011, 06:10 PM
Well, Frank. You and your "conservative" friends at Westlands certainly know
something about subtraction; i.e. Delta water. When people get over this left/right
thing and concentrate on the needs of the fish, we'll be getting somewhere.
How about looking straight ahead!
Best,
Larry S

Frank Alessio
12-03-2011, 06:28 PM
Well Larry I do not know anyone from Westlands but I do know that You can not put the fox in the Chicken coop and then complain about Egg production... I do appreciate the Conservative friends I have and pray for My Liberal friends.... My best to you Larry

huntindog
12-03-2011, 06:35 PM
Let us cut through the chase here.... LIBERALS are very simple minded... IN school they only learned Subtraction... They missed the day that ADDITION was taught.......

this may be the most stupid post i have ever seen on here....

jbird
12-03-2011, 06:50 PM
hang on guys! let me go make some pop corn :-)

Scott V
12-03-2011, 07:14 PM
I am personally asking everyone, please no politics on this board. I ask you nicely.

bart
12-03-2011, 09:24 PM
Marty.Oakdale irrigation has thier signs and public appeals all over the [ place with pictures of striped bass as the biggest predator on endangerd species.
Fish-bio,who is under there contract is saying the same thing.

Mike McKenzie
12-03-2011, 09:56 PM
Marty.Oakdale irrigation has their signs and public appeals all over the [ place with pictures of striped bass as the biggest predator on endangerd species.
Fish-bio,who is under there contract is saying the same thing.

It is nothing more than the Irrigation District using a PR campaign trying to take the focus off of their water diversions and Ag. drainage and the environmental problems they cause. Remember it is PR and not science with those folks, Always!!

Mike

bart
12-04-2011, 02:29 PM
What you forget Mike is thaFish-Bio is doing the studies for OID and thats where they get thier striper info.