Indi question.

[jimmy1]

Hi guys,
I have been fishing with indicators (thingamabobbers) for the past year and have found them to be excellent to see on the water and float very well. However I find my success at hooking up to be very inconsistant. I seem to have better success in the slower seams of currents than the faster moving water. I think this is because the indicator is pulling the nymph down stream at an unnatural rate of speed. I'm just wondering if there is a way of slowing down the indicator in faster currents? Mending is difficult when you have cast 50/60 yards upstream and its drifting doun to you. Is there another way of slowing it down thats effective? Thanks.

[StevenB]

Since I fishing mostly smallish water (Upper Sac and McCloud) my first thought on this question is to recommend short line nymphing (IE don't cast so far) but assuming you are in bigger water where long casts are needed to cover the water then I would suggest that you Google "stack mending"
Stack mends are like little roll casts that allow you to stack line close to the indicator to insure a dead drift. Adds a bit of a challenge to the hookset but gets you long drifts.
Works better with a DT line rather than a WF
Next learn the Strip strike...

[jimmy1]

Thanks Stephen, I'll check that out. I meant 50/60 feet. Not yards!

[Sammy]

in my opinion, no type of mending ultimately fix this problem. What I've had success with in the past year, was to fish as upstream from the run as possible. Then I will actually slow down the indicator by dragging it a bit. (imagining what the nymphs speed SHOULD be)

This goes against everything we've learned as flyfishermen, but it actually works for me.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

When you are indicator fishing there are some limitations.

The further across the river you fish from where you are wading or drifting in a boat, the harder it is to not get drag.

Also the further up stream that you cast will make it harder to get that drag free drift.

Drifting down stream is easier though by shaking out line.

The further the indicator is away from you, in any direction, will make it harder to hook the fish too.

It takes more skill to indicator fish further away from where you are wading in any direction.

As you develop more skill in long line indo nymphing you will be able to get drag free drifts that are further from where you are located.


In New Zealand the better fly fishers in the Lake Topo area do long line indicator fishing more than in most other places. This is fishing the tributaries of Lake Topo and like Steelhead nymphing. Some use powerful 8 weight rods so they can make long distance mends (stack mends) quite aways across the river getting a drift on the opposite side.

Getting out with a top local drift boat guides like Keith Kaneko or Bill Lowe will be a good way to learn some advanced indicator nymphing techniques and other skills as well.

.

[Mark Kranhold]

Those gas filled indo balls do float fast. I have found that poly yarn floats the slowest, it seats its self in the water and makes for a good slow natural drift. The problem with yarn tho, it is like casting a kite in the wind. So that is where the gas ball wins in the wind.K

[jimmy1]

in my opinion, no type of mending ultimately fix this problem. What I've had success with in the past year, was to fish as upstream from the run as possible. Then I will actually slow down the indicator by dragging it a bit. (imagining what the nymphs speed SHOULD be)

This goes against everything we've learned as flyfishermen, but it actually works for me.

I agree with you here Sammy. This is how I have had the most success also with these. They need to be constantly " checked" during the drift, and the only effective way I can do it is when its below me.

I wonder it they designed these in a tear drop model it they would be better in faster currents.

[Gary T]

Best way to slow down the indicator is to add split shot.
You want the indicator speed to be a little slower than the surface speed.
Watch items on the surface, such as leaves,bubbles,etc. and compare those to the indicator's speed. Be willing to add/remove shot as conditions change. That is one of the most important things you can do and sometimes one split shot can be the difference between getting bit or not.

[BigKahuna]

When fishing just about any type of indicator, not having enough weight is almost always a problem. With a thingamabobber type indicator when you lob it up stream and the whole indicator starts bouncing it is almost all floating above the water. If it continues this way you don't have near enough weight. The indicator should relatively quickly submerge as it progresses down stream until the point that half of the thingamabobber is under water. This will only happen if you use enough weight.

The other factor is to fish "inside" the fast seam. If fishing heavy currents the fish will sit on the "inside" waiting for their meal to be delivered to them. They don't like to fight the heavy currents. Where you think the "Inside" seam is fish even more "inside". When the indicator is directly across from you, stack line behind the indicator and feed. This is dead drifting.

If you want to fish the main current or below the main current strip off the indicator and add even more weight and tight line it through.

Hope this helps.

Clay Hash
Fly Fishing Traditions

www.flyfishingtraditions.com or www.flyfishingtraditions.blogspot.com

[bigfly]

I do a thing, I call a pop mend. Who knows what it's really called, or if anyone else does this..
When your indy lands upstream from you, throw a quick, tight, following rollcast at it.
And I mean quick.
When you do this, your Indy/bobber will pop/hop upstream towards the spot the fly landed..
Done correctly, the bobber will now be almost directly over the fly. Allowing the fly to sink unimpeeded vertically through the water column. Instead of being towed along in the surface race for too-long a ways.
In my experience many think they are getting a drift, but their fly takes too long to sink. So half or more of their drift can be ruled, a non-drift.
This trick helps a bunch. As well as several AAA split shot.:rolleyes:
Remember too, that every time you move your bobber during the drift, you are likely delaying, or even restarting the "sink time" of the fly, as well as chasing off the fish that was considering your fly, until it moved funny.

Jim

[peterkoistinen]

Jim,

you're right about the fly taking too long to sink, and you end up with only half a good drift. I see this happen a lot and I adjust - more weight, and/or cast further upstream from your "target" drift lane.

When I say I "see" this happen I mean it literally - I can see when the flies are leaning upstream or downstream, or hanging straight under the indicator (that's what you want)

How can I see this ? I use the foam ball indi with a hole drilled thru it. A piece of rubber band holds the leader in the hole, and the tag end of the rubber band sticks out the top. It shows which way the leader below the indi is leaning.

It's a great system, especially for beginners because you can see on your first drift if you need to adjust, or mend, or pull back on the line a little bit. When the rubber band sticks straight up you know your flies are at max depth (of course if this doesn't get you to bottom, then you need to move your indicator). Which BTW is very fast and easy with this type of indicator.

Give it a try, I'm sure Kiene's sells this type.

Pete

[BigKahuna]

The "pop mend" as you call it is a very good way to get your flies down. When you "pop" your indicator upstream from where it lands it takes the tension off the shot and the flies and the rigg drops straight down until it regains tension again. When it does, this is when the Thingamabobber will suck down into the water column if you have enough weight.

One word of caution. If you are fishing a drop off and casting up on top of the ledge and you want your flies to drop off the top and down into the drop off, tight line the flies under tension until you have fished the drop thoroughly for the 1st 8 or 10 feet. This is where the trout like to hang right at the drop waiting for bugs to come tumbling down. Use high stick methods for the first 8 or 10 feet and keep "tight" to your flies, lead them down. If you "pop" the indicator when its up on the ledge the flies can drop over and not be in contact with the indicator and the fish can take the bugs spit them out before you even now they are there.

Once you've tight lined the drop you can use the "pop" method to fish the run below the drop.

Clay Hash
Fly Fishing Traditions
http://www.flyfishingtraditions.com
or
http://www.flyfishingtrditions.blogspot.com

[Ralph]

Clay-
I think fish would be amused to hear all the things we say about where they "should" be. You nailed this scenario perfectly. We have all been told to keep our nymph on the bottom so many times, that people think this is etched in concrete and they tear their hair out trying to stack mend and add shot until they are scratching rock.
Below drop offs, most fish are well up the water column and dredging is usually counterproductive. Same holds true with boils, eddy lines, or when the river is running parallel to steep walls. In moderately fast runs the majority of the trout are feeding mid depth in the "thalweg". This is where the fastest current is, hence, this is where most of the food is carried. Bottom line, break the rules. Trout never read them.

[bigfly]

Clay, the pop was standard practice, but when I started fishing a switch rod, it became a long distance art form. To get "the drift" waaay over-there.......

I gotta say again, Ralph's approach of asking questions for yourself, has helped me immensely.
Lost count the number of times I've made "discoveries" because of it.
Fishing a greased tent caterpillar fly this year, for the first time, would probably be a good example.
Don't see those babies in the fly bins.
Ralph, I love Bug Underworld, but I would like to see some film of fish feeding all around flies, refusing etc...
I've heard you have some. I could sit through a feature length one of those!


Jim

[joh]

The pop mend is the way to go. Sometimes it even helps to pop mend the indicator just past the fly (upstream) which will allow the fly to sink even faster. It even helps to get some of the first few feet of flyline past the indicator, since it <i>should</i> be moving faster than the indicator (the indicator should be slower than the surface water for a drag free drift). Problem with this is if you need to set the hook, you have a few feet of extra slack line to deal with.

Thingamabobbers are way too buoyant for the majority of my fishing, though they do cast great as has been already mentioned. I like the little foam football shaped indicators, since they will more easily slow down from the drag of the nymph/shot. Thingamabobbers float high in the surface film, and it takes a lot more shot to slow it down.

[BigKahuna]

I tend to carry all kinds of indicators. I change up when I need to. I use large, medium and small Thingamabobbers, I use Frog Hair indicators with the stoppers, I use Boles Indicators and I'm going to start using pieces of hollowed out fly line on my leader (after talking to one of the best tight line nymphers I've ever come across, a disciple of Kelly Gallop).

When I'm fishing out of a drift boat with varied water types like the Lower Yuba I like using a large white Thingamabobber because it has good sensitivity when fishing deep runs and when your flies are suspended properly. The white gives you some stealth. I also like the way they are readily adjustable, all you need is the gumption to move it up or down your leader, which you should be doing often by the way. I usually pull the indicator off and tight line when the water gets to about 3 to 4 feet, run tight to my flies. When doing either of these methods I have strung up an Indicator line with the orange tip so I can use indicator or tight line methods. Change it up as I roll down the river.

I'm also a fan of using a Boles yarn indicator. It is still my favorite when fishing rivers like the Lower Sac or some of the rivers in Montana. I fan the heck out of it so it looks like a mini sombrero, add Mucilin floatant and work it and comb it in real good, it's good for the day. The post on the indicator that stands up always tells you where your flies are in relation to the indicator and will tell you when to add more shot. The yarn post points straight upstream when the current is ripping your flies downstream. You then need to either fish more inside, add weight or both. When it is pointing slightly downstream to vertical you've got it right. The Boles will suck down into the water column and then you know the world is right.

When wade fishing with a Boles it will also will suck down into the water column when it's really starting to fish. It works best when you're fishing up close and to medium distances in runs and calmer water. When it gets bouncy and I'm trying to fish farther out I usually switch to a Thingamabobber.

When wade fishing the other indicator that has become one of my favorites is the orange tip of my indicator line. this means no attached indicator and using tight or Euro methods.

There's a time and place for everything, indicators and tight lining. Use both and experiment. If I'm not constantly changing my rigg, tactics and my methods around, tinkering, I feel like I'm not really fishing.

Let the river talk to you.

Clay Hash
www.flyfishingtraditions.com
or
www.flyfishingtraditions.blogspot.com

[Ralph]

Regarding "stealth" indicators - the glow in the dark bobicator (uncharged!) is as close to invisible as it gets when viewed from underwater. Pretty much looks like a bubble. Even clear plastic bobbers are so shiny they stand out like beacons, but the GITD bobicator has a non-reflective, translucent pale green surface that melts into the sky. A speck of Orvis strike putty rolled onto the leader just above the bobicator is all you need for visibility in roily water or poor light.

[bigfly]

Not as sneaky as the glow in the dark, but if you struggle with picking out the bobber when it floats into the blinding sheen of the low angle sun. Try the black ones. Who would of thought? Works great. If you can't see the indy, when do you set???

Jim