Goloden Trout

[lcpl.allan]

I live in Sacramento and am looking for somewhere "close" to fish for goldens. I'm not really to jazzed about driving all the way to hell and gone to find them, but my mind could pretty easily change on that one.

Any input is greatfuly appreciated.

[Jay]

You can get goldens within a couple hour drive of Sacramento. But you always gotta work for Goldens. They dont live in ugly places!

[lcpl.allan]

Jay,
Would you by chance be willing to point me in the right direction for these beauties? I don't mind working for my fish or doing the research but so far all I have been able to find is that they are in Kern County.
If you're not a fan of plastering it on the web please feel free to pm em.

Thanks

[SHigSpeed]

You can get goldens within a couple hour drive of Sacramento. But you always gotta work for Goldens. They dont live in ugly places!

Couple hours drive, and a couple hours hike is more like it!

Doable, yes...

_SHig

[gene goss]

If your looking for a heritage golden trout, then Kern county is where you want to go.

If you want to catch a golden trout the easiest way i found....take 120 to Tioga pass....Saddlebag Lake Rd. to Saddlebag Lake....take the ferry across the lake....take the trail to Lundy pass....Z lake is on a small hill on the left side of the trail...there is no trail to Z lake, just walk up the hill....from the ferry to z lake its only about 1/2 mile walk...also ask the ferry boat captain where you might find a golden trout.

[k9mark]

I heard :unibrow: there's golden's in Raymond Lake as well as Cup lake and maybe even Saucer...Someone correct me plz if I'm wrong.

[Dan LeCount]

I know a place you can drive to about 2.5 hours from Sac. Although I would probably get my family jewels cut off if I told other people where they are. The 20 lakes Basin behind Saddlebag Lake is probably the best common-knowledge place to catch Goldens.

[k9mark]

Dan's right, I'd forgot to mention that area too. Any further info could be punishable by flogging or death :eek:.

[Black Cloud]

The San Joaquin River between Agnews meadow and Devils Postpile, more than a two hour drive from Sac but you don't have to hike in.

[lcpl.allan]

Thanks for all the info guys. It is very much appreciated, and once I make my way up to hunt for these things I'll be sure to share my pictures and stories with you all.

[Black Cloud]

Get above 11,000 to find these

[Ralph]

Shot these a little over a week ago

[Larry S]

Ralph:
I'm in love. That first trout just might be the prettiest ever. Hope it's a gal!
Best,
Larry S

[SHigSpeed]

Get above 11,000 to find these

I don't think we'll find that particular fish or the massacre that that party took out during their pack trip. Based on the tone and pride shown by that particular guy, you'll have to go QUICKLY to 11,000 to get any more before they're all gone...

Sad.

_SHig

[Fly Guy Dave]

[QUOTE=SHigSpeed;104426]I don't think we'll find that particular fish or the massacre that that party took out during their pack trip. Based on the tone and pride shown by that particular guy, you'll have to go QUICKLY to 11,000 to get any more before they're all gone...


...and probably head to Wyoming. That is one HUGE (and alas, dead...) golden. The record for the largest o.m. aguabonita comes from WY and not CA. Plenty of lakes up in the Wind River Range with these kind of trout.

--F.G. Dave

[SHigSpeed]

Okay, maybe I was a bit harsh... I'm sure that fish was caught legally, and who knows, maybe the lake is strongly self sustaining and whacking a handful of those beasts won't affect the fishery.

But something about boasting of limits of huge dead goldens rubs me the wrong way. Legal? Sure. But if everyone saw this person's public example and did the same in more sensitive waters it most certainly could be devastating...

Here's the background: http://imhooked.com/cgi-bin/forumsyabb/YaBB.pl?num=1313715834/0

Bill, if I'm out of line with posting the link, please take down this post.

_SHig

[Jay]

"What big beautiful fish! Quick! Kill it!!!!!"

[Fly Guy Dave]

The fact that these fish were taken in CA bothers me even more! The Winds are much less traveled than Sierras and probably can handle angling pressure a lot better than the heavily traveled Sierra can. The fact that this guy took SO MANY large trout DOES INDEED DISTURB ME! It's not that I'm jealous of so many nice fish, good for him, but the fact that he had to KILL THEM is what bugs me so much! :angry:

Legal or not, this guy needs a lesson in limiting your catch, rather than catching your limit.

:cry:

--F.G. Dave

[Reno Flytyer]

BS Shig...you're right on. Someone get a rope. I might understand harvesting one for dinner & maybe a hero shot or two for nostalgia, but for crimmeny sakes man, WISE UP...those fish don't get like that overnight, & almost never.
RFT

[Jay]

In case anyone is interested in NOT supporting this kind of crap, that guy is a guide on Tahoe.

He operates Blue Ribbon Fishing Charters. (530) 544-6552

I have taken this opportunity to turn a couple groups of guys away from his business.

[neil]

People are free to do what they want, but the fact that he's a guide is what offends me the most. Maybe I'm way off base, but the fact that he relies on the resource for income, makes me feel he should be held to a high standard for protecting it.

[Fly Guy Dave]

You'd think he'd protect the very thing that gives him a livelihood.

For a little more info: I read the original post and the three pages of replies on the imhooked.com site and the guide says two things: 1) that these are "god's trout" (which makes me wonder: why ANYONE would catch god's trout without permission?) and 2) the guy explains and justifies himself and his actions FAR too much, which makes me think he might feel rather guilty about what he did. "...methinks he protesteth too much..."

I can also gather that he got some guff from others on the imhooked site for his slaughter of goldens, but according to the moderator of that site, you can only say NICE things about other people's posts. If not, your account is deleted and you can't post there. THAT'S pretty scary too. The "Pleasantville" fishing site. Now there is no need for flame wars (like happened a lot on the old NCFFB site), but to only say only "nice" things is a bit too much. :rolleyes:

--F.G. Dave

[Ned Morris]

Native Mountain Yellow-Legged Frogs have a few less Hybrid Mutants going after them in that drainage.

[SHigSpeed]

You'd think he'd protect the very thing that gives him a livelihood.

For a little more info: I read the original post and the three pages of replies on the imhooked.com site and the guide says two things: 1) that these are "god's trout" (which makes me wonder: why ANYONE would catch god's trout without permission?) and 2) the guy explains and justifies himself and his actions FAR too much, which makes me think he might feel rather guilty about what he did. "...methinks he protesteth too much..."

I can also gather that he got some guff from others on the imhooked site for his slaughter of goldens, but according to the moderator of that site, you can only say NICE things about other people's posts. If not, your account is deleted and you can't post there. THAT'S pretty scary too. The "Pleasantville" fishing site. Now there is no need for flame wars (like happened a lot on the old NCFFB site), but to only say only "nice" things is a bit too much. :rolleyes:

--F.G. Dave

If you do some digging there and at the other local (*sniff*) site, this isn't his first golden whacking adventure.

Pleasantville Fishing Site - funny!

What is sad is that guy's kid doesn't know any different or better. A whole new generation of this is what could come. Hope someone can give his son a different perspective before it's too late...

_SHig

[Fly Guy Dave]

Native Mountain Yellow-Legged Frogs have a few less Hybrid Mutants going after them in that drainage.

...but are the Mountain Yellow-Legged Frog's "god's frogs?" ;-)

[Jay]

only if you capitalize every other word and sprinkle emoticons around like a madman.

[Dan LeCount]

I dont mind that the guy cropped some fish to eat, but it looks like he cropped enough to eat for a month. Just seems so wasteful.

[Ralph]

Gene is a well known Neanderthal around Tahoe. I am happy his kid is out backpacking and fishing though, rather hanging out playing video games. I killed an awful lot of fish before I discovered C&R. He has time to learn.

[Fly Guy Dave]

only if you capitalize every other word and sprinkle emoticons around like a madman.

Touché! :D

[tomsakai]

Several of us from one of the SoCal boards posted on that site yesterday. Generally our posts were polite but pointed out the problem of keeping those trophy fish. All posts got deleted and at least 3 of us were banned from that board. It's clear they don't want to hear anything that disagrees with a poster, especially a poster that is a sponsor of that board.

[Jaybinder]

This is quickly spreading all over the fly fishing boards. They are ripping the guy a new one on The Drake's BB. It's unfortunate that the people on the original board won't hear both sides of the discussion. From the coments they posted they need to consider both sides.

[fflutterffly]

Though it is legal, as many have stated, I'm curious if anyone has sent this damning post to the DFG, just so they can get an idea of what this guy is doing. I'd say this is a case of waste, blatant and perversely so. One fish a day would feed both father and son.

[Ralph]

Though it is legal, as many have stated, I'm curious if anyone has sent this damning post to the DFG, just so they can get an idea of what this guy is doing. I'd say this is a case of waste, blatant and perversely so. One fish a day would feed both father and son.

I recognize the lakes. These are a hike from one another and no sane backpacker is going to carry 10-15 pounds of trout from one camp to the next. Even Gene can't eat that much fish. It's a given that the majority of those trout got tossed into the bushes after the hero shots.

[1mocast]

In another board, a member cited CA DFG 1.87
"1.87. Waste of Fish. It is unlawful to cause or permit any deterioration or waste of any fish taken in the waters of this state."

[Fly Guy Dave]

Several of us from one of the SoCal boards posted on that site yesterday. Generally our posts were polite but pointed out the problem of keeping those trophy fish. All posts got deleted and at least 3 of us were banned from that board. It's clear they don't want to hear anything that disagrees with a poster, especially a poster that is a sponsor of that board.

After reading the moderator's post how he had deleted three accounts, I really wondered what was up with that site. Any board like that, which does not tolerate any dissent or disagreement, is not worth going to, or worthy of legitimacy, in my opinion. It seems like the "captain" merely posted there to have his ego stroked a bit. Pretty pathetic.

Thanks for the background info and perspective on this, Tom.

Cheers!

--F.G. Dave

[Darian]

Dave,.... Nice to be able to express a negative opinion ad nauseum isn't it. But, I'm wondering why you'd feel that when a moderator of another BB decides not to host this type of discussion you'd brand that BB as somehow "....not worth going to or unworthy or worthy of legitimacy" :question: If you've frequented Blanton's BB, you'd see that his policy (strictly enforced BTW) wouldn't have tolerated much of this thread or the other in another forum. Yet, I find a great deal of useful info on that BB. Try posting your objections to Blanton's BB. Maybe you can convince him that his site is unworthy or not legitimate. There're several others in SoCal (salt water) that follow the same policy. While I don't condone overfishing, slipping over into condemning other BB's and their moderators, on this BB, isn't warranted. [-(

I see this whole thread as a load of self-righteous indignation.... Unless you're gonna gather evidence (not just passing on photo's), provide it to DFG and seek a legal remedy, it's time to get over the crime and ourselves and move on.... :nod:

[NCL]

I would tend to agree with Dave's opinion, maybe "legitimacy" is too strong of a word, maybe "validity of thought" would be a better term. Dissent opinion is how we learn and are able to form ideas to progress. As an absurd example, say I say a improved clinch knot is the best knot and you counter with a uni knot is stronger for the following reasons, I have learned something which I may or may not use. I am certainly not in favor of "flame war" such as used to be prevalent on the NCFFB where some thought that a different opinion was license to attack and I usually applaud a moderator for stopping "the over the top" threads but there has to be some leeway to allow discussion of ideas. A respectfully presented different opinion can lead to a meaningful discussion of an issue which may or may not result in a solution. Anyway that's my opinion and I will stick it for now.

[Fly Guy Dave]

Dave,.... Nice to be able to express a negative opinion ad nauseum isn't it. But, I'm wondering why you'd feel that when a moderator of another BB decides not to host this type of discussion you'd brand that BB as somehow "....not worth going to or unworthy or worthy of legitimacy" :question: If you've frequented Blanton's BB, you'd see that his policy (strictly enforced BTW) wouldn't have tolerated much of this thread or the other in another forum. Yet, I find a great deal of useful info on that BB. Try posting your objections to Blanton's BB. Maybe you can convince him that his site is unworthy or not legitimate. There're several others in SoCal (salt water) that follow the same policy. While I don't condone overfishing, slipping over into condemning other BB's and their moderators, on this BB, isn't warranted. [-(

I see this whole thread as a load of self-righteous indignation.... Unless you're gonna gather evidence (not just passing on photo's), provide it to DFG and seek a legal remedy, it's time to get over the crime and ourselves and move on.... :nod:

Hey Darian-

See, this is what I like about Keine's board, you can have a thread like this and respectfully (key word) disagree with others, and have contrary ideas, and not have it edited away by moderators. I've never been to Blanton's board, so I can't honestly say whether I like it or not. I spent many years on the Northern California Fly Fishing Board and that place was rife with put-downs and flames and far too often it was more about personal attacks than it was about fly fishing. Not my thing. So I think this board is a nice balance between the two extremes. To only say nice things is boring and not very useful. If you read the rest of the replies on that post on the other site, all they do is say adoring and flattering things to the guy that went and killed a bunch of trophy trout.

My reason for saying what I did is because I saw the hypocrisy of how they edited out any negative comments against the "captain" because his guide service is a financial sponsor of their board. Any conflict of interest there? I believe the original intent of this thread was that lcpl.Allen was trying to find a place to catch some golden trout and then it got hijacked.

Even if what the guy did was legal, it doesn't make it right, many of these ideas have been expressed by others on this now very long hijacked thread, as well as another under another category, hence my use of the term ad nauseum. What's done is done and yes, I agree, it is time to move on.

Cheers!

--F.G. Dave

[OceanSunfish]

Hey Darian-

If you read the rest of the replies on that post on the other site, all they do is say adoring and flattering things to the guy that went and killed a bunch of trophy trout.

--F.G. Dave

There have been many fishing BBs created, (some private invitation only), as a result to how some of the original fishing BBs have transcended..... Hence, these new BBs now attract people with like minds and philosophies with regards to fishing practices, even politics. (what a surprise)

For example, why would anyone that likes to 'catch and eat' and perhaps was seriously flamed on a a FF BB C&R board in the past want to stick around the FF BB? Instead, as in real physical life, they migrate to like kind meeting groups. I believe the moderator of the other BB was simply protecting what they want in a BB forum. (Maybe this is where all the "flossers" will end up?) ;)

The angler in question may have his couth criticized and perhaps he'll think something of this or not. Much the same happens everyday in this world, country, and state.

[Darian]

OK!!! I'll try this one more time. After pointing out the unwarranted statements about other BB's, my point was that this whole line of comments were basically self aggrandizing (back slapping) by people of like thought (C&R, etc.) and it's taking up a lot of space on this and many other BB's. For example, on this BB this subject appears in two Forums, takes up 7 pages and contains 60 replies, most all attempting to make the same point.... Talk about overkill.... BOOORRING!!!! With all of the problems F&G and this state is facing (i.e. finances, poaching on a great scale, continued demands on water supplies, etc., etc.) a guide catching more than his share of Golden Trout is worthy of this much comment.... :question:

Geez!!! Get a life!!! Watch some football, go fishing but get over this and move on. Lots of other legitimate subjects to get upset over.... :neutral:

[Jay]

Geez!!! Get a life!!! Watch some football, go fishing but get over this and move on. Lots of other legitimate subjects to get upset over.... :neutral:

Like people disliking other BB's ? :D

[JasonB]

Darian, while I agree that this whole thread has kinda gone on a bit too long, I respectfully differ with you about the importance of this issue. Are there far bigger issues facing our fisheries? Sure, but that doesn't mean we should keep quiet, or ignore a more direct and personal issue when one arises. I think that a lot of us are upset, legitimately, and I didn't really see any of the complaints as "backslapping" or ego stroking at all.

In my mind, I think it's important for people to be open and upfront about things they think are wrong or unethical. Many years ago you wouldn't have heard a squeak about C+R or any other environmental or political issues threatening our fisheries. In part when more people speak out, it may cause a lot more folks to stop and consider those issues a bit harder. Clearly a lot of us found this to be a pretty glaring case of greedy and unethical fishing practices on the part of a "professional" fishing guide. No one has to agree with that, but I for one am glad to see I'm not the only one who takes my fishing WAY to seriously.

my $.02, take it for what it's worth.
JB

[jbird]

darian
with all due respect (you know I love ya :-)) This is the perfect definition of a thread where "If you dont like it, dont read it". But the content IS substantial to many of us. The comparison to Dan Blantons forum is leaky. This isnt a disagreement about indicators, or beads, or trolling, its pure and simple, reckless behavior that violates what so many of us believe in. If these were hatchery peanuts in a put and take lake it would be diferent. But were talking about a slaughter of a treasured resource.

There are so many eyes on these forums with so many fresh minds being molded. I personally think the size of this thread is drawing attention to this matter. And may make some guys think a little more before they do something like these guys did. Heck, I would be very surprised if the guys from that thread arent aware of whats being said here and in other forums. May make them stop and consider too.

[Red Perception]

Wow, you people reely have shown why there is a need for moderation in forums. Yes, you should have the right to discuss topics that you disagree on(this is America) BUT you do NOT have the right to slander and try to take away someones livelyhood or make false accusations. The funny thing is that Gene doesn't even read this forum or the Drake and even though he had a couple cancellations he is actually getting more business out of all the publicity.(guess people want a guide that knows how to catch trout) "Sticks and stones.." Gene just laughed and called you all "PATHETIC" I reely can Not believe that Ralph Cutter, a somewhat educated man and one of my idols, would write that Gene would just "throw perfectly good trout in the bushes after the glory shots"=D> That just takes the cake right there. The funny thing to me, is that none of you understand that the Ca. DFG would take that report, laugh at you and thank Gene for helping their efforts. Let's talk about a reel slaughter/massacre...Last year the CA. DFG killed over 15,000 Goldens in the Sierra backcountry. They are currently gillnetting these very lakes that WE put these fish into in the first place to catch and eat(fish were stocked for Rangers to have a food source in the backcountry) to protect the frog. They plan on eradicating trout from 70% of the Sierra backcountry lakes. These gillnets are not even manned and the fish(100's of Goldens up to 7-8 pounds) were just stuck in the net dead and bloated, reel humane. I didn't post this to stir the pot but to set the record straight. This world is full of diversity and that is what makes it so great. Like SHigSpeed said you better hurry before the reel massacre is over. Take care and Good luck, Eric:)

[Reno Flytyer]

Reely now.
RFT

[Ralph]

Eric-
Per your post I did some checking and DFG isn't aware of a situation anywhere near as dire you describe it. Do you have any photos or perhaps names of eye witnesses? I'm sure that anyone seeing such carnage would have snapped a picture or two. Fish have been removed (almost exclusively brook trout) from relatively few, targeted high mountain lakes as experimental waters to do Mt Yellow Legged frog studies.

I know the lakes in the pictures with Gene's fish, and as of 2010, they were still being stocked. Your statement that they plan on removing fish from 70% of the Sierra is hogwash. More like up to 20% of the lakes in VERY SPECIFIC watershed will cease to be planted. The best fishing in the Sierra is in the Yosemite, Kings Canyon, and Sequoia National Parks. The Park waters haven't been planted in over 20 years . . . I don't think most people noticed a difference when 40% of the entire range went into self sustaining fishery management.

The high mountain lakes (HML) management plan is still being revised (delayed because Curtis got transferred to a new position in Redding and they haven't budgeted a replacement yet), but I've reviewed what it says so far, and you are miles off target.

[huntindog]

right from the beginning it is clear you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about...shut up you only sound stupid...

as for this board, I love the various opinions, it is a great FORUM with open discussion...just dont criticize Mike Michalak (redding fly shop)for being in bed with westlands water district who kill hundreds of thousands of salmon every year...that will get you banned here (trust me I know):D

[Ned Morris]

That sucks as he is one if the best. Honestly does not surprise me as
DFG always tend to move the few good ones they have and bring in new droids. What will he be doing in Redding?


Eric-
Per your post I did some checking and DFG isn't aware of a situation anywhere near as dire you describe it. Do you have any photos or perhaps names of eye witnesses? I'm sure that anyone seeing such carnage would have snapped a picture or two. Fish have been removed (almost exclusively brook trout) from relatively few, targeted high mountain lakes as experimental waters to do Mt Yellow Legged frog studies.

I know the lakes in the pictures with Gene's fish, and as of 2010, they were still being stocked. Your statement that they plan on removing fish from 70% of the Sierra is hogwash. More like up to 20% of the lakes in VERY SPECIFIC watershed will cease to be planted. The best fishing in the Sierra is in the Yosemite, Kings Canyon, and Sequoia National Parks. The Park waters haven't been planted in over 20 years . . . I don't think most people noticed a difference when 40% of the entire range went into self sustaining fishery management.

The high mountain lakes (HML) management plan is still being revised (delayed because Curtis got transferred to a new position in Redding and they haven't budgeted a replacement yet), but I've reviewed what it says so far, and you are miles off target.

[Darian]

OK,.... Ralph's post made this whole thread a bunch more interesting. Full of new info (....to me anyway). I was unaware that there actually was a formal HML Management Plan. :D:

Now, if we can only convince Huntindog that all transfers in state service (even at DFG) are not disciplinary in nature. Many are carried out at the request of the transferee. Maybe this was one of those.... :nod:

[huntindog]

OK,.... Ralph's post made this whole thread a bunch more interesting. Full of new info (....to me anyway). I was unaware that there actually was a formal HML Management Plan. :D:

Now, if we can only convince Huntindog that all transfers in state service (even at DFG) are not disciplinary in nature. Many are carried out at the request of the transferee. Maybe this was one of those.... :nod:

not me.....i agree with you, i was going to point out that pretty much no-one transfers at DFG unless it is their own request...cant imagine why a guy who likes trout would go to Redding (sarcasm)

[Ralph]

Curtis applied for the new position as R-3 Fisheries Program Manager. He hit the ground running and gave a whiz bang Powerpoint presentation asking ranchers to donate some water during the coho run. He' never been afraid of walking into hornet's nest!

http://www.siskiyoudaily.com/features/x919540171/DFG-asks-for-landowners-help

[Black Cloud]

Some background to the (HML)
http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/6366

[Mike O]

gotta say...9 day backpack trip...I would eat a few freshies if legal.

[Native Trout]

Anglers should be aware that CDFG is currently conducting very few trout removal efforts in the high country. Most of these are based in relation to historical and ongoing frog restoration efforts in concert with directed fishery managment to allow fishing.

The National Park Service on the other hand is currently removing trout at a much larger scale in the various parks. Each park is different in the scale and approach, however anglers should know the "policy" of the NPS is not to support planting of trout or wild trout fisheries above app. 6000 feet and are activly removing/eradicating HML wild trout fisheries regardless of the direct benefit to recovering the frogs.

[Mike O]

Anglers should be aware that CDFG is currently conducting very few trout removal efforts in the high country. Most of these are based in relation to historical and ongoing frog restoration efforts in concert with directed fishery managment to allow fishing.

The National Park Service on the other hand is currently removing trout at a much larger scale in the various parks. Each park is different in the scale and approach, however anglers should know the "policy" of the NPS is not to support planting of trout or wild trout fisheries above app. 6000 feet and are activly removing/eradicating HML wild trout fisheries regardless of the direct benefit to recovering the frogs.

Is this a problem? "Wild" fisheries shouldn't need plants and those not wild shouldn't be there anyway, right? So, for any environmentally conscious person...what's the problem?

[Native Trout]

I guess if you don't mind the concept of zero wild trout fisheries above 6000 feet elevation in the National Parks of California, there probably isn't a problem....not sure if everyone feels the same way....balancing all types of recreational use in the parks and how it may impact conservation of the landscape/ecosystem and longstanding beneficial uses is the challenge.