question about line wt vs rod wt

[JasonB]

So I picked up a 4wt rod not so long ago (thank you Kiene's), but I've been having some issues with casting it. Now I'm the first to admit that my self taught, highly specialized casting "style" is not exactly the best; I'll just get that out of the way right now since I'm sure that's the first thing most folks would wonder about. That said, I seem to be having more issues with this rod than any other that I've played around with.

I do have it paired with a reel spooled with weight forward 5wt line, which I know will change the dynamics of how it performs. My question is how exactly will this change things:
I know some folks like to upsize their line wt, but honestly I'm not really sure what the pros and cons of this are.
What would be the effects of casting a 4wt rod with 5wt line; the good, the bad and the ugly?
Thanks,
JB

[Big Al]

It will slow that fast rod down I over line my rods when fishing small streams the heavier line will load quicker since most of the time your fishing off your rod tip and use a very short length of line I use DT on small streams for that purpose.

[Darian]

Seems to me that your problem could be solved by taking the entire rig back to kiene's and hae them cast it. If there's truly a mis-match, I'm sure Kiene's would address it. On the other hand, if it's your casting technique kiene's can help you there, as well. 8)

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

We have fly reels spooled up with test lines in many sizes so anyone can bring their rod (s) in and we can cast them with various size of weight forward floating fly Ines. We have some smaller double tapers as well.

It is very educational to cast 3 or 4 different line sizes on your rod.

All rods are slightly different and we all have different casting styles/speeds.

One under, the one it calls for, then one size over, then two sizes over.



Open 7 days a week.

[joh]

Rods are rated to load 30 ft of a given weight of fly line. So 30ft of 4wt fly line will properly load a 4wt fly rod.

With a 5wt fly line, the 4wt rod will load with less than 30ft of line out, making it suitable for the type of fishing requiring shorter casts (i.e. small streams, as Big Al has stated).

30ft of 5wt line on a 4wt rod will overload the rod. At least in theory. Better to stick with a rod's rated line weight if you're planning on casting farthter.

Of course, this is all theoretical. In practice, it's not quite this simple. Rods vary, lines vary, casting styles vary. If you have the opportunity to take it by Kiene's shop, you can find an ideal match for your rod and casting.

[luckydude]

So I picked up a 4wt rod not so long ago (thank you Kiene's), but I've been having some issues with casting it.

I do have it paired with a reel spooled with weight forward 5wt line, which I know will change the dynamics of how it performs. My question is how exactly will this change things:

JB

I fish fast action rods, which as near as I can figure out, means they are stiffer. I routinely use them with both the suggested line and a line one heavier and it works just fine for me. I am no expert but I believe that using a heavier line on a rod will turn the action from fast to medium but I might be smoking trout crack.

For example, I have a St Croix Legend Ultra 4wt. I fish 5wt on it any time the winds are too heavy for the 4wt and it works great. It's a pretty stiff rod though.

I also have a couple of St Croix Imperials in 4wt, they claim they are fast action but I would not fish 5wt on them, they are a less stiff rod in my opinion.

I also have a ~20 year old Sage 5wt. I fish that with 4wt line when I want a delicate presentation and I would suspect it would be fine with 6wt as well.

What is the rod and the reel pairing you are using?

[JasonB]

Ok that all jives more or less with what I had guessed. I think that perhaps the rod is a bit too slow with the 5wt line, at least for my own casting style, warts and all. My main issues have been that my accuracy has been a bit more off than normal, and I'm having a harder time getting my leader to fully turn over. It sounds like I need to make a trip to Sacramento happen so that I can get some professional help (and not the kind my wife thinks I need). I probably just need to get a spool of 4wt line to match the rod, but it would be really nice to be able to do some test casts first.
Thanks for the input.
JB

[Mike Churchill]

The best explanation of rod and line weight I have seen was posted on Dan Blanton's board a while back by Max Garth, an extremely experienced Australian flyfisherman. As he put it, every rod has a "grain envelope" it will cast well. "Better" rods have wider envelopes--i.e., they will comfortably / efficiently cast a wider range of weights of line. Poor rods have relatively narrow grain (i.e. weight) envelopes and are difficult to load / cast outside that envelope. Changing the weight of the flyline on your rod changes your location in the rod's casting envelope for a given number of feet of line extending past your rod tip. Some call the effect of "up-lining" "slowing the rod down" because it makes it easier to feel the rod load at the same distance of cast.

(Flylines are rated by the weight of the first 30 feet of the line, but when fishing you might make casts with anywhere from five to sixty or more feet of that line out of the tip of the rod. The actual mass of line loading the road varies hugely as you aerialize more line. I think Max or someone else on Blanton's board posted up the difference in mass between the first 10 feet of a 5-wt line vs. 30 ft. vs. 60 ft and it is multiple line weights difference.)

Your particular rod may not handle the heavier line as well as others. Casting stroke of course plays a role too.