Switch Rod frustration

[Frank Roepke]

I have a Beulah 4/5 switch rod using Elixir switch 4 /5 245gr shooting head and a Rio Spey versileader 10' 7.0ips. *I have taken a couple lessons fro Jeff P and have been out a few more times Shad fishing. *By now I pictured myself *blasting 50+ cast but can't seem to get past the shooting head. *In fact, my snap T is starting to scare me because *because the fly is heading straight for me. *when I manage to pull off a decent T my D loop seems to anchor ok, but the line doesn't load *for the cast.*
This is becoming very frustrating and my progress is very slow. *Is this normal? *Is the answer more lessons? * Help!*
Any suggestions would be great.

Thanks,

Frank*

[TaylerW]

when i first got my switch i played with scandi for a while and found it difficult. then i put on a flight and it got easier way faster. get a flight!

[aaron]

Hang in there Frank. It took me a while to get any shooting/distance when I first started. A lot of people struggle with the initial snap. Starting with a heavy poly leader and shad fly isn't quite the easiest either. Keep at it and eventually it'll all come together. Timing is key.

[nrthcsteel]

Frank that 10' 7.0 sink polyleader weighs 118 grains! Thats quite a bit of tip to be throwing with a scandi head that weighs 245 grains. Tie on a weighted fly and oh man.. not saying it cant be done but just looking at those numbers doesnt look like a setup I would be wanting to cast especially if I was just learning. As Lstriper suggests if your wanting to cast tips you may want to look into some of the shorter skagit heads.
Also we all need practice time with our casting , especially when beginning. I found it was easier to make practice time practice time and fishing time fishing time. Its tough to try and combine the two. When we fish we should just enjoy ourselves and not have a bunch of other things running through our mind . Maybe fish with a setup you were comfortable with and using before and bring your switch rod down with a floating polyleader and spend a little while just trying to practice and get your technique down with that.
And yes being frustrated is normal. Take it slow and try not to work on to many things at once. Try and learn a couple of casts that will get you fishing from either side of the river and dont try and practice every cast there is for a few minutes each. And dont overlook practicing the switch cast. It will teach you a good SLOW LIFT! , a good achor setup, d loop formation and a good forward cast. Which is the basics of every good spey cast.
Hang in there and good luck. Kevin

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Northcoaststeel has great advise......

I would buy a 10' floating Poly leader to practice with at first.

I would get my casting down first, then go fishing....

__________________________________________________ _____________________

It took me more years (4) than I want to talk about to get going but I finally got "over the hump" last year.


Last year I took the Deck Hogan class....powerful stuff.

Then I fished one night of Shad with Jeff Ching......inspiring!!

Then I fished the lower Yuba River with top two-handed guide Mike McCune....learned more.

Then I fished 3 days at Morrison's Lodge on the Rogue River with great guides......great experience.

Then I fished a few days with Jason Hartwick on the Trinity River....learned more.


I have really improved but it is been a long road.

__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________

If you really put in your time practicing at Watt Avenue with the other two-handed fans you will get going much faster than I did.

Once you get it all down it is easy because that long rod will really throw that line a mile.

[royewest]

I just started Spey casting, too. I highly recommend a bottle of no-doze and a copy of the Skagit Master DVD 1. Ward does a great job demonstrating how to learn and then practice some basic casts on a lawn (with a piece of hookless yarn).

[chapmag]

Great advice from everyone. I've found it much easier to cast my switch rod load with a skagit-ish line that exceeds the rod's grain window.

I have a Meiser switch rod with a suggested upper limit of 400 grains. But I cast best (after lots of practice and lessons with Jeff P.) with a 450 grain skagit head and a ~120 grain sinktip.

The rod doesn't seem to mind and I have more fun casting the heavier head.

I only cast my scandi line with a floating polyleader and small unweighted flies and a few split shot if I need to get down a bit. I've tried the scandi line with sinktips and it was too hard to cast.

[Frank Roepke]

Thank you for all the great feedback. First thing is start take off the heavy leader and replace it with a floating (Thats probable why Jeff P had me use the floating leader). Then rent a few more Spey casting DVDs from the shop, and practice, practice, practice. Then go fish.

Thanks again Gents!

Frank

[Tiger]

Either that or put a line on there that actually loads the rod.

[Mark Kranhold]

Nrthcsteel is right. I believe that the rio versa leader is to heavy for the scandi and a light switch like that. If you stick with the 10' airflo poly leader you should be fine, they are less grains than rio's and should work with a scandi. Good luck out there.

[golfish]

You may consider contacting Steve Godshall he knows that rod and can hook you up with lines and appropriate tips. I talked to him about a line for that exact rod but then ended up having Bob Meiser build me a switch rod. Got the "scandit" line Steve designed for it too, it's my most versatile rod. The right line makes a huge difference.

[Bryce Tedford]

My name is Bryce Tedford, I am the sales rep. for Beulah Fly Rods in CA. Saw your question & wanted to help out if I could. Although practice & lessons will definately help this is more of a fishing tool issue. The 4/5 Classic SW is a great rod however it is more for dry line fishing with floating or light tips. It is also a great nymphing or overhand tool with a weight forward line in the 6-7 range. What would definately help is a Skagit style line about 22.5' in the 300grn range would turn over a 10' sinking tip much better. The scandi line you are using is light & only works well with light 10' poly leaders. However, the rod itself is still light, it is like using a 4wt dry fly single hand rod for Steelheading. I would keep the 4/5 for trout on rivers, lakes, nymphing, etc. & get a 6/7 Switch or Spey Rod, with a Skagit style head that will easily turn over heavier tips & flies such as 10' T-11 or more. Let me know if you have any more questions, I would be happy to give you some advice. Feel free to email me at trutcha@hotmail.com or respond here, I just dont check this too often but check email daily. Hope I helped a little, please dont hesitate to contact me.
Bryce Tedford, Beulah FLy Rods
;);)

[Tiger]

Now we are getting somewhere!!!

[Frank Roepke]

Bryce, Outstanding! I will email you soon. Also thanks everyone for your imput. This is a great Fourm with solid fisherman willing to help

Frank

[Max.garth]

Firstly I'd forget "D" loops and "Spey", the switch rods are definitely for Scandi operations, which is very similar to, the casting one does with 9 footers and shooting heads. Like overhead two hand stuff.
Actually its not "very similar" but exactly the same, except that the rod is longer and the GDE is a bit heavier in real terms.
Lines have longer heads, to fit into the 3x rod length criteria. The idea that switch rods are for SH and Dh use might work if the things are about 10' but
get into a 11 plus footer and its DH all the way.
I find that using longer heads in the 45' class reduces the running line length to reasonable proportions and the heavier heads reduce false casting to just one huck and you will get a very easy 80 plus feet piece of cake.
I use SA 45' heads, in Sinking, Inter and Floaters and 50lb Monic GsP running line. My Switch is a 11'6 TFO 9#, which has a GDE of 500/700gns, which suits the 45' 600/750gn heads I use.
Just to point out how well these things work, I was up at Cape Cuvier in West Australia a few months ago, trying to fish off the rocks, but it was blowing a 30 knot westerly, which puts the wind right on ones left shoulder. Its a location on the west coast, like. I was casting the Switch directly north, off a rock, and it, the 45' 750gn S7 sinker, went the regulation 80 feet, and didn't even get effected by the wind.
Suprised the hell out of me. I did 3 casts, just to prove it could be done and quit.
It would have been impossible to cast a 9 footer SH outfit.
MaxG

If you read this David, give me a bell. OK.

[Larry S]

Max:
If you're referring to David L, he is taking an extended break from the Kiene board.
He was frustrated with some of the negative posting and attitude that he was seeing.
I miss his wit and wisdom and experiences. If you like, I can PM or email
contact info for him.
Our San Diego beaches are receiving some huge swells from the New Zealand
region the past few days. Some 12 - 15 foot waves. Surfers are loving it.
Lifeguards are earning their pay. I fished this AM @ Blacks and did well on surf perch.

Sorry about hi-jacking the thread.

Best to our "down-under" mates,

Larry S

[Jeff Putnam]

Frank, call me to meet me on the water and let me watch your cast and we'll find the problem (under-grained line, Slow stroke, too much anchor, etc.) within a couple casts. I'll recommend some practice exercises. Then... practice, practice, practice. It'll take no more than 10 mins. JP

[BigKahuna]

When rigging a switch rod you really need 3 setups. I fish with a Sage Z Axis 11'0" six weight. The set up that works for me is;

(1) An integrated line to enable mending and for fishing with indicators. I started with a Rio Altlantic Salmon/Steelhead line, then tried an over lined Rio Nymph line ,an 8 weight, then a Rio 5/6 Switch Line, and finally a Beulah Elixer 330 grain integrated line. Who wins? the Beulah Elixer.

(2) An airflo running line teamed up with an Airflo Scandi 330 grain head. This head is perfect for fishing rivers like the Lower Yuba and the American. It casts great and you can toss flies up to about 2 inches. If you use Versileaders you can get down when you need to. I carry a full wallet of Rio Versileaders.

(3) An Airflo running line and an Airflow Skagit 360 grain head. This setup allows you to cast big flies over 3", fire off casts when you have little room to set up a D Loop, and get down deep. I carry a full wallet of MOW light tips to use as cheaters and with the tips they get down.

With a setup similar to this matched to your particular switch or spey rod you can fish anywhere.

Get down to Kienes and they will match you up right.

You can check out an article on my blog at www.flyfishingtraditions.blogspot.com and find an article "Scandi vs Skagit" to get a little more in depth look at the differences between the two line options.

Good Luck!

[Yard Sale]

Might want to make that last one a skagit switch. Really nice for in tight work and still carries the big tips....

[Don townsend]

I started with a switch 5110 first salmon/steelhead didnt work for me then went to rio switch great for indacator then rio scandi versi tip short with s/a speciality sharkskin running this setup has helped me a lot being a first season speyer,skigit short is next for this rod,I have a 7 wt. With airflo compact heads both scandi and skigit I put a t-8 on and bombed out long floating leader better, these short heads seem to help me being new to this,pulling out of the water more slowly helps me feel the load a lot better now if I can get anchor in the right spot,when it is it feels good,just wanted to get in the act,thanks Don p.s. The 5 wt. Versi tip short seems to work on my 8wt. Single hand, running line for the 7wt. Spey 12.6 is airflo ridge