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View Full Version : Delta salmon plan ....



David Lee
02-12-2011, 08:34 AM
Pointless ?

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110212/A_NEWS/102120325/-1/RSS02

Why not just remove Friant Dam ????????

D.~

Hairstacker
02-12-2011, 11:08 AM
Fascinating . . . does seem like a shot in the dark though. Would be cool if they actually pulled it off.

Bill Kiene semi-retired
02-12-2011, 11:41 AM
We have been discussing all this salmon and steelhead hatchery "stuff" for decades now.

My feelings is that they could take wild fish from the river and spawn them in the hatchery to get high numbers of success, then at a young age let them go at the hatchery into the river and let them be wild from then on.

Raising them in raceways for a long time and feeding them doesn't make for survivors in the wild, as I see it.

Not a biologist so this is just my 'two bits worth'.......

Darian
02-12-2011, 03:22 PM
As I recall, in-stream spawning was tried using the Whitlock, Vibert Box. Haven't heard anything about them in use for many years. Does anyone know what ever happened to them :?: If they're viable, it seems like that would be an economical method of accommodating natural spawning.... :confused:

mikel
02-12-2011, 03:54 PM
They're using vibert boxes on the King's below Pine Flat dam. Haven't heard about it in a year or so, but they were definitely in play there.

-m

Found a link... http://www.kiene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18465

thepeacockspecial
02-12-2011, 10:30 PM
the river you mentioned, that i shall not name, is actually doing quite well. people say there are no fish there, but it just depends if you know how to cast your flies or not. also, people tend to keep that river on the down low, but honestly, i do not think it matters because there are so many bait chuckers on that river, and they basically stock the river every week. for example, during the summer time they stock every week. the flows are SUPER high, which makes it nearly unfishable. By the time the flows drop, fish get monsterously large. I've seen some large large large monsters. But that river is doing extremely well. fish the c&r section, and youll get a monster. report all poacher, and youll love this river.

thepeacockspecial
02-12-2011, 10:32 PM
as for the salmon in the SJ, im quite worried because it gets super hot there in the summer, sometimes spring, and early fall. I am not sure if the water will be cool enough for the salmon to survive. Everythign they have done is just experimental, but who knows. maybe it could happen. BUT i do like bill kienes idea he mentioned. You gotta think about how dangerous the trip would be for the smolts, going from the millerton dam, to striper country, to the delta, and ocean. Lots of bass and stripers there.

David Lee
02-13-2011, 08:20 AM
You gotta think about how dangerous the trip would be for the smolts, going from the millerton dam, to striper country, to the delta, and ocean. Lots of bass and stripers there.

And millions of Sacramento Squawfish , the Native Salmon/Steelhead predator .... and the Crayfish and Sculpins that raid the redds .....

And the S.J. River almost totally de-watered , and blocked by dams ......

And the pollution .... running off streets from uncounted Cars and Trucks , not to mention all those people flushing toilets and dumping millions of gallons a year of nasty stuff into the watershed ....

Bass and Stripers are not the 'boogy-men' of the situation .

D.~

Mrs.Finsallaround
02-13-2011, 10:46 AM
And millions of Sacramento Squawfish , the Native Salmon/Steelhead predator .... and the Crayfish and Sculpins that raid the redds .....

And the S.J. River almost totally de-watered , and blocked by dams ......

And the pollution .... running off streets from uncounted Cars and Trucks , not to mention all those people flushing toilets and dumping millions of gallons a year of nasty stuff into the watershed ....

Bass and Stripers are not the 'boogy-men' of the situation .

D.~

Here, here! :thumbsup:

thepeacockspecial
02-13-2011, 07:48 PM
OH YEAH, I totally forgot to mention all those poachers that will be on that river....

OceanSunfish
02-14-2011, 01:53 AM
We have been discussing all this salmon and steelhead hatchery "stuff" for decades now.

My feelings is that they could take wild fish from the river and spawn them in the hatchery to get high numbers of success, then at a young age let them go at the hatchery into the river and let them be wild from then on.

Raising them in raceways for a long time and feeding them doesn't make for survivors in the wild, as I see it.

Not a biologist so this is just my 'two bits worth'.......

Not to mention the cost to raise/feed a single steelhead smolt for a year.....

Salmon smolt grow fast and are released within months of birth, but still, the cost to feed these smolt if kept for even an extra month in the raceway is nothing to sneeze at.....

At one time, I had the cost of 'fish food' at my fingertips, but lost it..... I had the poundage of food per day and the price per pound for the fish food too..... It was eye openning. I'll have to research again.

FlyReelFisher
02-14-2011, 08:40 AM
Hatcheries are welfare. Hatchery fish are destructive to the survival of wild fish. Take time to read the OSU studies. Hatcheries maintain low wild fish populations.


Ban bait so nobody needs to kill a fish for it. Get rid of hatcheries so everyone needs to support wild fish survivability if they want good action.

Hatcheries are welfare for guides and fishing shops.

Bob Laskodi
02-14-2011, 09:05 AM
I realize that most fly flingers think hatcheries are the tool of the devil (myself included in many instances). But, in certain situations, hatcheries are the only economical and practical way to restore fish populations. Not all hatcheries are bad.

OceanSunfish
02-14-2011, 11:03 AM
Hatcheries are welfare. Hatchery fish are destructive to the survival of wild fish. Take time to read the OSU studies. Hatcheries maintain low wild fish populations.


Ban bait so nobody needs to kill a fish for it. Get rid of hatcheries so everyone needs to support wild fish survivability if they want good action.

Hatcheries are welfare for guides and fishing shops.

This point has been beating to death for years...... please, let us not start this up again!

It's safe to say that those that read the "conservation forum" already know the pros vs. cons of hatcheries, mitigation for dams, the reality of wild fish coexisting in CA with 38 mil people, etc.

FlyReelFisher
02-15-2011, 09:55 AM
Meow meow meow.

I still think conservation will be more effective than restorative ecology when it comes to steelhead.

My point is the hatcheries arnt working well, most of them anyway. I know of a few, but they arnt the norm.