Watch your back .....

[David Lee]

.... if you're fishing the Port or Deepwater Channel out in West Sacramento !

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2010/11/17/mountain-lion-spotted-in-west-sacramento/

Big Kitty , probably tired of eating House Cats and Chihuahuas by now .....

D.~

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Wow.....

I think there are more Mountain Lions around than we think.

Very sneaky cats..........

[Hairstacker]

Will have to add that to the list of advantages of having a craft that will get you out on the water. :lol:

[David Lee]

Funny story -

I was fishing Miners Ravine back in the late-1990's , couldn't shake the feeling of being watched . Figured it was a homeless person , or a transient camped-out somewhere in the bush (pretty common) . The Bass and Sunnies were biting well , and I fished for 5 hours but couldn't quite figure out why I felt so strange .....

I fished my way down to where the hole is in the cliff and paused to re-tye my leader . As I sat down on a sandbar , I noticed the tracks(I knew what made them right off the bat) - they were friggin' BIG ! Having no better plan in mind , I started singing and making lots of noise and started my way back to the put in point .

Late that night - the Roseville Police found a large Male Lion just off Douglas Blvd. and I-80 , in the parking lot of a shopping center - DFG showed up and tranquilized him . Cat was relocated to the Sierras , and was shot by DFG? less than a year later for killing livestock .

D.~

[Hairstacker]

Sounds like your animal instincts are in fine order. I don't think I would have sang though . . . . too much risk of lion attacking me just to end that misery. :lol:

[David Lee]

Sounds like your animal instincts are in fine order. I don't think I would have sang though . . . . too much risk of lion attacking me just to end that misery. :lol:

LMAO !!

Don't think He'd wanna eat anything that sounded like me .

D.~

[Hairstacker]

LMAO !!

Don't think He'd wanna eat anything that sounded like me .

D.~

I don't know . . . me giving the impression of being severely diseased might not be such a good thing. :lol:

[Larry S]

Good story for the campfire, David! Were they Cat Stevens songs or maybe "Eye
of the Tiger?" Bringing back a short hunting season on them might actually be good for the
mountain lions. Give them reason to avoid close contact with humans.
Larry S

[Ralph]

Cats abound. Here's one that strolled by the house. Wish we had more.

[Dan Harrison]

Had a close encounter with a mountain lion one time coming back from half dome. Had been up since 5am rock climbing half dome. Went up the snake dike route. Came down the the death slab route to the trail the goes by Mirror lake at the back of the valley. I was dead tired was lagging back about 100 feet behind my buddy (charles). It was really calm about 7pm and dusk. I was walking slow due to exhaustion when I felt this thing run behind me. I felt the wind on the back of my neck and arms when it passed. Then the brush off the right side of the trail. Ran up to my buddy yelling to wait up and told him something ran right behind me. Of course he call BS!! Then up ahead on a hill about five feet off the trail was a mountion lion. He was crouched down like he was waiting for me to pass then jump on my neck. Charles said "what the :-k should we do" and i said "throw rocks and yell :thumbsup: And so we did almost smacked the guy with a good size rock screaming and yelling choice words. Alot of good fun and he took off. Came back two more times one on the left side then back to the right. Both times sticks and rocks and choice words. Scared the you know what out of me.

[Rifflerat]

Better take the dog treats out of my vest.

[bigfly]

Had big kitty stalk me while I was in a squatting position (Guess) a couple of years ago.
Heard a large twig snap, turned on my head lamp, there he was, about 20' away, behind me..
Cool looking eyes.
I got very tall and loud and faced him. Thankfully, he went away.
Just a thought. Should nature call.
When I was a diver it was Gwhites, now it's big cats.
Good to be humble, and awake out there.

Jim

[Scott V]

I tawt I taw a putty tat, I did I did, I did taw a putty tat.


Just carry some catnip and that little kitty will become your best friend.

[Mike O]

Had big kitty stalk me while I was in a squatting position (Guess) a couple of years ago.
Heard a large twig snap, turned on my head lamp, there he was, about 20' away, behind me..
Cool looking eyes.
I got very tall and loud and faced him. Thankfully, he went away.
Just a thought. Should nature call.
When I was a diver it was Gwhites, now it's big cats.
Good to be humble, and awake out there.

Jim

That's why when I am doing that "bear in the woods" thing, I am backed up against a tree.

As far as GWhites? I have no fear (unless a sea lion or seal goes by at warp speed)

[FISHEYE]

I am glad I just have to deal with bears. Lions would scare me a lot more.

[bigfly]

Fisheye, big kittys generally attack from behind to eat.
Bears on the other hand......
Maodiver, I saw a big GW from the "safety" of the bottom, holding on to kelp.
I can play the mental movie anytime I want. I generally try not to.
Thanks so.... much for hitting me with philosophy before I've had coffee.
Good quote though. I would have enjoyed buying Epicurus a beer.
As I recall, he was into food and other stuff too.

Jim

[Sammy]

I had a great white swim past me while I was surfing out at manresa beach. That made nature call pretty quick :)

[Grampa Spey]

"As far as GWhites? I have no fear (unless a sea lion or seal goes by at warp speed)"

Last October, my trophy bride and I went to Doran Beach during the week.

It was a beautiful day, and we both noticed no birds, seals, or anything swimming out along the beach. Nor did we hear the normal seal barking from the nearby island.

I was stringing up my rod, when a park ranger and an EMT came along to warn us and others that a GW had been seen around the mouth of the bay and to the East of the mouth off shore of the shore line.

I rigged up my rod and waited until the birds and other critters came back before I waded out to cast.

Later, we saw some good size birds in the water in the Bay becoming lunch, we never saw a fin. We did see feathers and blood on the water.

[bigfly]

Granpa, that's a good point. Everybody thinks you need to be offshore a ways to get hit.
But they can and do hunt shallowish water as well. Ya gotta eat.
Have you seen the video of them hunting seals, almost up onto the beach in Chile.

[David Lee]

A Shark story -

I used to hunt Pacific Black Brant w/ my Dad . Dad had started hunting Brant in Humboldt Bay back in the early-1950's (those guys used to hunt out of home made stick and doped canvas Scull Boats !!) and was well versed in pass shooting , Sculling , and decoy setups . When I was old enough (11 years old) , we started hunting Tomales Bay ....

We would launch at Nicks Cove ramp - a 12-foot Sears Gamefisher boat , tow the Scull boat , and load both w/ 150-200 Decoy blocks and silhouettes - we used to set-up on Toms Point , just North of where Walker Creek dumped in . The point was shallow and covered w/ patches of Eelgrass and clumps of Oysters (stuck to sections of cut garden hose ) . There was a lot of Sea life there , Sea Lions would pop-up in the Decoy spread , usually w/ a 3-12 lb. Halibut or Starry Flounder in their jaws . Lots of Leopard Sharks would cruise the flat ....

I guess this would have happened in '78 or '79 ? Late one afternoon , we broke camp to go back home - I would wade and wrap anchor lines around the Decoys , Dad would stack them (that took some finesse , what with that many Decoys ...) . I was freaked out to be chest deep out there , Leopards swimming around everywhere . One cruised a bit too close (40 or so feet away ...) and I tried to pull myself into the boat . This act earned me a scolding - 'Quit being such a p---y' kind of thing . I gathered what little courage I had and continued pulling blocks , wrapping , and handing them off ...

A few moments later , I had several blocks in my arms . I waded to the boat and leaned up and in to set the blocks in a clear spot where Dad could reach them for stacking . As I released the blocks and started to turn back to go fetch some more , my Father reached out and grabbed my upper arms , and started pulling me over the side . As he pulled me into the boat , I looked over my right shoulder - there was a fin , perhaps 14-18 inches high , cruising up the edge of the channel where the flat dropped off , maybe 50 or 60 feet away .

Leopards don't get that big .

Scared the spit out of me . I'm STILL leery in saltwater .

D.~

[bigfly]

DL, thanks for sharing!

Book recommendation, "Close to shore" it's the story that inspired the book "Jaws".
The first recorded attacks in NA.

JIM

[flyfshrmn]

The cat population is way higher than you think. Passing the initiative protecting these animals from hunting was about as stupid as stupid gets. As a result of the increasing population, most California deer herds have been decimated by lion predation, as have the desert and California bighorn sheep. The sheep herd in Anza Borrego state park has abandoned it's winter range due to mountain lion predation. A lion eats about one deer per week, with the occasional wild turkey, other small mammals, and whatever else they can catch. Increasing cat population puts them in contact with people, their pets and livestock. You will now find them wherever a sufficient prey population exists. In other states with lion populations, sport hunting and selective enforcement on livestock killing cats keep them in check and the deer and wild sheep herds were healthy. The California Sierra population is so high that cats are crossing the border into Nevada and have significantly reduced the deer populations in the border counties there as well. You cannot have a protected climax predator like mountain lions and wolves (as has been amply demonstrated throughout the mountain west) in an unbalanced ecosystem.

[WinterrunRon]

The cat population is way higher than you think. Passing the initiative protecting these animals from hunting was about as stupid as stupid gets. As a result of the increasing population, most California deer herds have been decimated by lion predation, as have the desert and California bighorn sheep. The sheep herd in Anza Borrego state park has abandoned it's winter range due to mountain lion predation. A lion eats about one deer per week, with the occasional wild turkey, other small mammals, and whatever else they can catch. Increasing cat population puts them in contact with people, their pets and livestock. You will now find them wherever a sufficient prey population exists. In other states with lion populations, sport hunting and selective enforcement on livestock killing cats keep them in check and the deer and wild sheep herds were healthy. The California Sierra population is so high that cats are crossing the border into Nevada and have significantly reduced the deer populations in the border counties there as well. You cannot have a protected climax predator like mountain lions and wolves (as has been amply demonstrated throughout the mountain west) in an unbalanced ecosystem.

Stupid is a pretty strong word. I don't see the protection of our native species as stupid, any native species. I think the Mountain Lion is native to our area, isn't it? Deer population decimated? I've seen hundreds of deer, every year, all year long, everywhere, in every western state... I've not seen one Mountain Lion, ever. Are there really that many? I'd love to see one!

Seems to me, about the only thing unbalanced in our ecosystem is us trying to re-balance it after we've done most of the unbalancing!

[Frank Alessio]

Too many Stripers and Deer....Problem solved....

[Darian]

As I recall (and this I recall well) the main impetus for passage of the initiative protecting Puma's was the photo images of outfitters on horseback riding up to a treed lion (the lion treed by a howling pack of dogs) and the client shooting the lion with a scoped, 30.06 rifle at 10 yards.... really bad PR, regardless of the unintended consequences. It probably wouldn't have passed were it not for those images.... :-|

At any rate, back to the Sharks. Check out the video of a large Hammerhead in action on the flats. :eek: Got this from Blanton's BB:

http://saltyshores.com/wordpress/2011/02/23/video/hammer-head-rams-the-skiff-and-snaps-the-push-pole/

Maybe some of the attacks in the surf were mistaken ID on the part of the shark. :-k

[Scott V]

I just read a story with a different tale about the big cats in the eastern US.

Taken from article:
"The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service on Wednesday declared the eastern cougar to be extinct, confirming a widely held belief among wildlife biologists that native populations of the big cat were wiped out by man a century ago.

After a lengthy review, federal officials concluded there are no breeding populations of cougars — also known as pumas, panthers, mountain lions and catamounts — in the eastern United States. Researchers believe the eastern cougar subspecies has probably been extinct since the 1930s."

To read the rest of the story go here:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110302/ap_on_sc/us_eastern_cougar


All I can say is that the animals were fine until the humans came and started to try and control them by hunting or whatever other means. I say leave the cats alone and let nature take its course, we as humans have done enough damage to the animals on this planet.

[Larry S]

A great read of a book on the Great White is by Susan Casey titled "The Devil's Teeth."
Most of the book is about her stays at the Farallon Islands. She is also the author of
"The Wave: in pursuit of Rogues, etc." Surfers will dig this one.
Both top-notch reads.
Best,
Larry S

[mr. 3 wt.]

Stupid is a pretty strong word. I don't see the protection of our native species as stupid, any native species. I think the Mountain Lion is native to our area, isn't it? Deer population decimated? I've seen hundreds of deer, every year, all year long, everywhere, in every western state... I've not seen one Mountain Lion, ever. Are there really that many? I'd love to see one!

Seems to me, about the only thing unbalanced in our ecosystem is us trying to re-balance it after we've done most of the unbalancing!

Well, I am going to have to agree here with Mr. Winterrun again. That's twice in about a month. I have seen a few big cats around. One onthe middle fork american and one at the mattole. They are pretty cool animals to see in the wild. I am glad they are protected myself.

[Hairstacker]

I'd prefer there was some level of open season so it remains hard-wired into their gene pool to remain shy of humans and to remind them my family and I are not potential prey animals.

[aaron]

http://www.mountainlion.org/after_the_hunt.asp

This is pretty objective and a good read. It seems a lot of people would disagree that the cat population is healthy and can sustain much more hunting than already goes on. Would hate to see them go the same way as the grizzly or jaguar in CA.

[Hairstacker]

Aaron, maybe I missed it, but I checked out your link and didn't see where it identified the total numbers of lions in California and how these totals have diminished over time.

[WinterrunRon]

I'd say they're already pretty shy of humans, Mike.

They're apparently so plentiful an open season is needed to control the population as they are decimating other populations, but I've never had the privilege of seeing a single one, although I've spent a fair portion of my life in their habitat over the years! Maybe I just don't appear palatable to the critters? Guess I should be thanking my lucky stars.

Nothing official you understand, but it seems to me their attacks on humans is significantly more infrequent than shark or bear attacks.

Okay, I think I'm done with this thread.

WinterrunRon out...

[1flyfisher]

2004 8 January. (Attacks #12 and 13; death #6) 35-year-old Mark Jeffrey Reynolds, an amateur mountain bike racer, was reported as being killed by a mountain lion sometime after 1:25 p.m. at Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park in southern Orange County. His bicycle was later found with the chain unbroken, but off the sprockets. Jim Amormino, a spokesman for the Orange County Sheriff's Department, speculated that Mark was attacked as he was fixing his bike.

However, the autopsy results apparently show no damage to his neck at all, or any damage indicative of an actual attack that caused his death.

The speculation that fits the facts best is that Mark had a heart attack while riding his bike, fell off his bike, causing the chain to fall off the sprockets. The cougar then simply scavenged him while he was dead on the ground. Unfortunately, as is typically the case for lion feeding, the heart was missing, so we'll never know for sure if he did have a heart attack.

Later the same day, Anne Hjelle, 30, of Santa Ana, a former Marine who works as a fitness instructor, was jumped by the same mountain lion. Anne was attacked a short distance down the trail from Mark's body, which was not visible to her, while she was riding her mountain bicycle. The lion jumped her from a slight rise (~4 feet) on the right hand side of the trail, from under some high brush. The lion quickly had Anne's face in its mouth, despite the presence of Anne's helmet. Her riding companion, Debi Nicholls, was about 30 feet behind Anne and witnessed the attack. Debi threw her bike at the mountain lion, to no avail, then grabbed Anne's legs and screamed as the lion dragged both of them 30 feet down the slope into the brush. The lion kept attacking Anne, alternating between her helmet, face and neck. The screams brought Nils Magnuson, 33, of Long Beach, and Mike Castellano to the scene, who called 911 and scared off the mountain lion by throwing rocks at it.

Anne was airlifted to Mission Hospital. Her condition was initially critical, was upgraded from serious as of early 9 January, and to fair as of 10 January.

Nils was nearby since he had just found Mark's bicycle, and was about to look for Mark. (Mountain bikers crash fairly frequently, so finding a crashed bicycle is not an unusual occurrence. It is customary to stop and render aid to crashees.) After this attack, Mark's body was found dead higher on the trail than where Anne was attacked. Mark had apparently been dead for some hours, and his body had been half-eaten and partially buried, typical of a mountain lion kill.

Later that night, Sheriff's deputies shot and killed a healthy 3- to 4-year-old, 110-122 pound male lion, which was spotted 50 yards from the man's body. Initial tests found human skin tissue, and portions of a human lung and liver in the lion's stomach, which were confirmed later to match Mark's DNA. No fibers from Anne's clothing, nor any slivers from her helmet, were found in the initial examination, but later DNA tests matched Anne to the blood on one of the lion's claws. Curiously, no deer hairball was found in the lion.

Also that night, about four miles north of these attacks, a second mountain lion, a 70 pound female, was hit by a car and killed. This lion was not involved in either attack.




If you want to read more just Google Anne Hjelle. WARNING: Do not click on cougarinfo unless you have a strong stomach as there are graphic images of her injuries.

I remember seeing a photo in the newspaper photo and article(L.A. Times? Santa Barbara Newspress?) once. It was a mom and her little kid maybe 2/3 years old in a park down around LA. In the back ground 25-30 feet away you could see a cougar peering out from the bushes. This was years ago when we used film. They didn't know the lion was there till they got the film developed. They looked at the picture many times but the lion was so well hidden they didn't initially notice it in the pictures. It was a pretty wild pic with the lion just doing a tunnel stare right at the little kid. Fortunately they folks weren't attacked.

[aaron]

^^^is there a point to that story?
according to dfg there have been 17 attacks, 6 of which were fatal in CA since 1890.

For some perspective lightning has killed 28 people in CA since 1959 according to the NWS. Pet dogs have killed 69 people in the last 50 years in CA as well.

Human's encroach into cougar territory. 6 fatalities in one hundred years isn't exactly staggering. Since this whole thread is based of anecdotes, it seems like every once in a while someone is in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think there's a lot more to be worried about then getting chomped by a mountain lion. My 2 cents.

[jbird]

... but I've never had the privilege of seeing a single one, although I've spent a fair portion of my life in their habitat over the years! Maybe I just don't appear palatable to the critters? Guess I should be thanking my lucky stars...

I feel the same way. I am apt think however, they have seen me, many, many times!

I did see one once, Just before dawn on the way to a lake. It was massive. It crossed the entire road with three striding gallops. Almost a ghost, but it was as real as it gets!

[Mark Kranhold]

So i ran into a guy setting up motion cameras right at dusk at Ancil Hoffman. I stopped and talked with him and he said that he was doing Mt. lion studies along the parkway. I asked if he has had any luck getting footage of the kitty, and he replied yes. He got shots of a big male at Sailor bar and said it had a very large head.The other shots he got so far were at Rossmoore and he confirmed that one was a female. He told me he is going to have a full story on Mt. lion awareness on the A.R. parkway sometime in May. The website is sacramento county parks ,and then go to american river park safety.

[aaron]

That's cool to hear mark. I talked to a ranger some years back after one had left a deer in a bunker at Ancil Hoffman and he said they estimated a population of 5-10 in the parkway.

[JasonB]

The cat population is way higher than you think. Passing the initiative protecting these animals from hunting was about as stupid as stupid gets. As a result of the increasing population, most California deer herds have been decimated by lion predation...

You know I have a hard time taking this argument far when you mention deer populations and wild turkey populations being "decimated" by mountain lion predation. Both deer and turkey populations seem to be ample to say the least around our neck of the woods. I'm sure that there are a lot more lions than we tend to see, but at this point in time I'm happy to have them in the balance.

As for lions being a threat to people, sure there's always that chance that an attack could happen, but a very slim one. I for one have never felt the need to try and eliminate all "potential" risks from life, I'm sure that each and every one of us who goes out fly fishing is taking several other much bigger risks to harm than what the lions pose to us. And yes lions are very shy of humans in general; *if* they can help it, you wont ever see them.

On a personal note, we actually had a mountain lion on our property the first year we bought it. I actually saw it as a blessing really, kept all the deer at bay and out of our garden. Unfortunately once the lion realized that we had moved into her turf, she left... and we've been hassling with deer ever since.
JB

[gene goss]

I was taking a bike ride down by Rancho Cordova park a couple of day ago, and there was a dead deer laying about 50ft. from the bike trail. There are a lot of deer on the american river parkway, and the neighborhoods around the parkway....lots of food for mountain lions....yep....i keep my head down and pedal fast.

[David Lee]

I wasn't going to relate this story because it didn't have anything to do with fishing .... but since we're on the subject -

'Shy' Lions ....

I was between jobs in the late-90's , got a call from a Friend to do some 'fire prevention' (slave labor) in Somerset , outside of Placerville ... my task was to whack brush and grass on my Friends lot .

Armed w/ a gas-powered Weed Whacker and noise reduction headset , I started going up and down a hill , cutting grass - after 40 or so minutes of doing the up-and-down , I was at the top of the grade , next to the driveway and a few feet from a small Oak . I caught a flash out of the corner of my eye .... brain says Tan Dog . I turn my head to where the 'Dog' is , the 'Dog' crawls thru a downed Oak that is near the fence line .... it goes thru the snag and stops .... looking at me over its shoulder .

I stare at a young , no-spots Lion , perhaps 40 inches from nose to ass , w/ about that much Cougar-tail . I hit the kill switch on the whacker and look on , not quite believing what I am seeing ! After a lifetime spent hunting and fishing in the Bush , my very first BIG Cat !!

Did I mention that when I got the first flash of the Lions movement .... it was about 15 feet away from me ? I could have taken 3 quick steps and slapped it . Mind you , it HAD to have been there the whole time I was doing the hillside , with the noisy , stinky Whacker running full-tilt ?? That lil' fellow sat there for nearly a minute .... just staring at me . I didn't feel any fear , likely because I was shocked to finally see one in the flesh ....

After a moment , the Lion melted into the grass at the fence line and vanished - I went up to the driveway and yelled to my Friend's son (both of them named Joel) "Dude , there's a Cougar out here"!!- He told me I was full of it - we discussed the matter and thought it wise to go into the house , fetch a gun , and investigate further . Gun cabinet was locked , so Joel grabbed-up a golf club , the one w/ the large metal head (WTF he was thinkin' , I'm not sure ..) and followed me down to the snag ...

The snag is maybe 10 feet from the fence - the lot goes uphill from there , 50 or so feet uphill is a still-Green Oak that is uprooted , leaning across the fence - from the Oak , there is a short flat area , then the lot goes steeply uphill w/ a large rock outcropping on the other side of the fence . Joel is raggin' me , telling me I have seen the neighbors Cougar-Tan Dog , and telling me I am totally full of shit . I am starting to wonder if I have imagined the whole episode as we go up the hill ....

We reach the Oak , Joel is in the lead w/ the club over his shoulder - as he starts around the tree's exposed root-wad , I am at the fence line and I can see movement through the Green ... I tell Joel "He's RIGHT THERE" - Joel looks back at me as he rounds the roots ...

Joel clears the root wad , and stops . The Cat is standing 15 feet from the fence , perhaps 20 feet away from Joel ..... just standing there , staring at him .

Joel is frozen in place . He stands there for the most pregnant 30 seconds of our lives .... then , almost in slow-motion , raises the golf club is both hands over his head .... and lets out one of the highest screams I have EVER heard ..... hopping around in place .

The Lion stares for another minute . Then turns and jumps across the fence onto the rocks that are 35-40 feet away - it stares for another long minute , and melts away ...

Joel looks at me with WIDE eyes , and says "JESUS , THAT'S A LION" !!!

I can only assume that the Cat was young , and didn't quite know what I was . After Joel Sr. came back home we learned that something had killed the neighbors Dog a few days before . That Cat MUST have been sitting tight the whole time I was working with the Weedeater - why it didn't spook off , I will never know . I saw no aggression in it , and not a bit of fear .

It remains one of the most remarkable moments of my life .

D.~

[Mark Kranhold]

Very cool story David. I have always wanted to see a cat in the wild. Hopefully i will see one some day...on good terms!!

[Jgoding]

I don't see why people get so freaked out. Attacks are rare and food sources around our urban areas seem pretty good. I've seen kills in my neck of the woods (on the American), but never any cats. I did find a headless mallard neatly tucked under a large bunch of annual grass last year which was kind of weird too but I did find two bucks killed last year (just the bones left) and another that was tucked away in a brushy cove that had passed in early velvet but didn't seem eaten on or wasn't eaten on that much.

I can't say what the cat population is but flyfhrman isn't wrong in some areas and he never said turkey populations were being decimated. Try hunting the eastern sierras (mulies) etc... and see how many deer you run into. The brother ran into one a couple years ago when we were quail hunting a WU ranch area. The owner says theres a brownish colored one around this year that he would love pictures of as well, which was funny because he didn't like us reporting a normal colored one around but I guess a brown coated one is ok in his eyes.

[Hairstacker]

Well, I certainly don't freak out about it, and in fact, have never given them any thought when fishing in the wild. I've only been lucky enough to see one years ago when I approached a warmwater pond north of Stanford U.

I have gotten an impression based on anecdotal news reports that they seem to have gotten more aggressive in certain areas over the last decade based on encounters with homeowners in housing developments that border wild areas.

In any event, I still figure the majority of 'em are much more afraid of me than vice versa. To be honest, though, I have recently given the potential risk, however remote, some thought as I've contemplated taking my 3-year old daughter fishing in certain remote areas, given her small size.

[Tony Buzolich]

Those neatly stashed bodies of various dead animals are more than likely future meals for whoever put them there, and in this case a big cat. Because of the abundance of animal life around the river a cat may not always be hungry at that moment, but, he is an opportunistic hunter and a chase reflex for him is always on. If he should come upon an opportunity, he may kill whatever it is and eat it later. That's normal cat behavior.

Now, here's the scary part. If you're snooping around curiously looking at one of these dead animal stashes the owner may think you're trying to steal his dinner.

A few years ago my son and I were at the bottom of a canyon near the Gualala when we heard some loud screaming. We froze and listened again as the screaming continued several more times. We moved forward a short ways and found a fresh deer kill just as a cat was backing off a few feet in the tall grass. Not wanting a confrontation we backed off the opposite direction. That was HIS dinner.

Another time we went out calling varmits after dinner in the dark. My friend Vince said it was great fun and my son would like it because you never know for sure what is going to come out of the bushes. We set up along an old dirt road, sat quietly for a few minutes to let things relax, and then gave couple of blows on a dying rabbit call. Shortly, we could hear something coming toward us as footsteps broke dry madrone leaves on the ground. Closer the steps came then stopped. My son, with only a half-dead flashlight, shined it on the area of noise, only to be face to face with a COW!

We continued on down the road toward a small pond and set up again. Repeat of the call and then listen. Something stirred in front of us but this time only a small fox. Another call and this time we could hear leaves crushing again. We're standing in the pitch black dark in front of our Jeep as we make these calls. Soon the crunching leaves quit and Vince tells my son to turn on his light. No more than 15'-20' right in front of us is the largest pair of green eyes we've ever seen. This cat had come in on us thinking it was an easy dinner and since he's the apex predator he could take it away from whoever had caught it. The cat started to growl and scream obviously pissed off that we weren't what he thought was an easy dinner. He backed off into the darkness still screaming until we could no longer see his eyes with our half-dead flashlight. We had enough for that night.

[briansII]

You know I have a hard time taking this argument far when you mention deer populations and wild turkey populations being "decimated" by mountain lion predation. Both deer and turkey populations seem to be ample to say the least around our neck of the woods. I'm sure that there are a lot more lions than we tend to see, but at this point in time I'm happy to have them in the balance.

As for lions being a threat to people, sure there's always that chance that an attack could happen, but a very slim one. I for one have never felt the need to try and eliminate all "potential" risks from life, I'm sure that each and every one of us who goes out fly fishing is taking several other much bigger risks to harm than what the lions pose to us. And yes lions are very shy of humans in general; *if* they can help it, you wont ever see them.

On a personal note, we actually had a mountain lion on our property the first year we bought it. I actually saw it as a blessing really, kept all the deer at bay and out of our garden. Unfortunately once the lion realized that we had moved into her turf, she left... and we've been hassling with deer ever since.
JB

This was several years ago, but I heard, and read how the mountain lions were effecting our local deer population. The local population was declining at a relatively fast rate. They attributed the decline to predation by mountain lions. Not just our local populations, but populations to the south of us as well. A quick google search came up with this.

http://www.fs.fed.us/psw/publications/Popular/mtnlions.html

http://www.aws.vcn.com/mountain_lion_fact_sheet.html

http://mountainlion.org/publications/CA%20-%20Mountain%20Lion%20Predation%20on%20Livestock%20 in%20CA%20-%20Sitton%201978.pdf

There is a lot of other "stuff' on mountain lions and deer populations, but I only scanned a few links. By the way, while I do think ML predation has effected the local deer population in a negative way, I really have no knowledge about it outside of this range.

briansII

[1flyfisher]

No there is no point to the story, don't let it upset you.


^^^is there a point to that story?
according to dfg there have been 17 attacks, 6 of which were fatal in CA since 1890.

For some perspective lightning has killed 28 people in CA since 1959 according to the NWS. Pet dogs have killed 69 people in the last 50 years in CA as well.

Human's encroach into cougar territory. 6 fatalities in one hundred years isn't exactly staggering. Since this whole thread is based of anecdotes, it seems like every once in a while someone is in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think there's a lot more to be worried about then getting chomped by a mountain lion. My 2 cents.

[Jet]

Joey and I were fishing the Upper Sac and hiked into the Gibson area. We fished for a few hours and on our way out I noticed some tracks along the shore. I said man that's a big dog but upon closer inspection there were no claw marks. I try to make sure he's in sight all the time except he does not follow the rules. I recently purchased a smaller bottle of bear spray to carry in my vest if we head deep into the woods. Should work on cats, bears and rednecks.

Jet

[Kevin Goding]

I used to never worry about lions til I walked by one 4 years ago. I still don't worry too much, as that one didn't try to eat me. I was quail hunting some lava draws in the burney area, ther were some cows in an open spot below me with young calves. I then heard something get up behind me and start running, it sounded big, but I could not see it through the manzanita. It cut across an opening about 15 feet away, and it took a second to register what had just happened. It was a a rather large male mountain lion, and I had literally walked right by it, withing 2-3 feet I'm sure since it was laying on the rim of the lava draw that I was walking on.

Since then I have found one dead one, and a few years prior to the above incident in the Forest Hill area found another dead cat. Both seem to have died from old age, as their teeth showed a lot of wear, and there weren't any broken bones indicating bullet damage. I had to resist the urge to take the skulls as trophies, since possessing that stuff is illegal.

[Ed Wahl]

Hey Kevin, what kind of dog are you running on quail?

Ed

[Scott V]

Hey Ed, you should have seen the covey we flushed while walking to the surf the other week, had to be about 30 - 40 birds. It was just like the time at Slinkard, it scared the poop out of me since it was so close.

[Jgoding]

Hey Ed,

Kevin is a proud owner of a............pomeranian..... We do it sans dog since our lab passed around 10 years ago or so. She grew up on upland and in her later years didn't quite get what it meant to sit in a duck blind.... Pheasants and mountain quail is what she knew best.

[David Lee]

Kevin uses Jeffy as a Bird Dog .... heheheheheheheh ...

D.~

[flyfshrmn]

The deer population decreases in both California and Nevada that I discussed are based on information from the respective departments of fish and game and direct discussion with both the field biologists and game wardens in those areas. I hunt deer quite a bit, both archery and rifle, find cat tracks and kills often, and have seen several mountain lions while hunting deer, something that used to be considered extremely rare. But sightings are increasing in frequency, there have been three reported kills of humans in California, and at least one disappearance of a child in the Chico area that has a great deal of evidence for cat predation as the cause. For comparison, I worked and hunted for four years in NE Nevada, a state that had at the time a healthy population of mountain lions and saw only one. I have a second home in the Lewiston area and my former hunting partner up there has seen several cats and there have been several instances of cat/human interaction that involve stalking by the cats. I have found fresh tracks and deer kills in my yard at Lewiston. As for the turkeys, I don't believe the cats view them as primary prey, but they certainly take them when the opportunity presents and I have found several kill sites, evidenced by cougar tracks and turkey feathers spread all over the area. The deer population decreases are much more evident in the NE California areas, especially around Burney and the Lassen area and East to the Nevada line, deer Zone X4, where the herd is currently at about 10% of it's historical average. All of the X zones have seen large decreases in the herd populations and the Fish and Game biologists have attributed it directly to mountain lion predation. I have hunted and fished in those areas since moving to California in 1963 and it has become extremely rare to see any deer, any where in those areas. I often drive Highway 88/89 in the Lassen area at night and it's rare to see a deer up there now. In the late 60s on a trip in that same area, I counted over 150 deer seen in one night. Same thing in the mountain areas in zones D3-5. Huge decreases in the deer populations attributed to multiple factors but with mountain lion predation being the most important.

[David Lee]

The deer population decreases in both California and Nevada that I discussed are based on information from the respective departments of fish and game and direct discussion with both the field biologists and game wardens in those areas. I hunt deer quite a bit, both archery and rifle, find cat tracks and kills often, and have seen several mountain lions while hunting deer, something that used to be considered extremely rare. But sightings are increasing in frequency, there have been three reported kills of humans in California, and at least one disappearance of a child in the Chico area that has a great deal of evidence for cat predation as the cause. For comparison, I worked and hunted for four years in NE Nevada, a state that had at the time a healthy population of mountain lions and saw only one. I have a second home in the Lewiston area and my former hunting partner up there has seen several cats and there have been several instances of cat/human interaction that involve stalking by the cats. I have found fresh tracks and deer kills in my yard at Lewiston. As for the turkeys, I don't believe the cats view them as primary prey, but they certainly take them when the opportunity presents and I have found several kill sites, evidenced by cougar tracks and turkey feathers spread all over the area. The deer population decreases are much more evident in the NE California areas, especially around Burney and the Lassen area and East to the Nevada line, deer Zone X4, where the herd is currently at about 10% of it's historical average. All of the X zones have seen large decreases in the herd populations and the Fish and Game biologists have attributed it directly to mountain lion predation. I have hunted and fished in those areas since moving to California in 1963 and it has become extremely rare to see any deer, any where in those areas. I often drive Highway 88/89 in the Lassen area at night and it's rare to see a deer up there now. In the late 60s on a trip in that same area, I counted over 150 deer seen in one night. Same thing in the mountain areas in zones D3-5. Huge decreases in the deer populations attributed to multiple factors but with mountain lion predation being the most important.

Very interesting observations .

I have always assumed that poaching has been the biggest factor in the decline of Deer population up that way , but I NEVER poo-poo the observations of anyone who spends a lot of time in the bush - time in the wild trumps paper 'facts' every time .

BTW , you and I have hunted the same country - I used to spend a lot of time from Badger Mt. in the South , up to Brush Mt. at the highway junction - a beautiful area !!

D.~

[Mike McKenzie]

as indicated by this photo below...A pretty nice 6x6!! Off hand it would make one a little leery of elk hunting alone..Never mind how you'd pack all the meat out...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/stripermike/Lion.jpg

Anyway the truth can be found here... http://www.snopes.com/photos/hunting/stalking.asp

In the hills where I grew up mountain lions were not uncommon but were rarely seen. However, I'll never forget the momma lion and her two cubs I saw..They were just moseyin' along while the cubs played with what ever attracted their attention. I was watchin' from about two hundred yards away and across the canyon, while settin' atop a horse. Momma just ignored the horse and I. It would'a been nice to have had a "modern" camera and telephoto lens!

As to lion populations, Calaveras County (where I live now) certainly has its share..Last year there were two killed in pastures where they were eatin' Goats. One was killed down on the hiway. Several years ago a lion killed a deer in my neighbors back yard. What the lion didn't eat the coyotes, Foxes and Vultures ate..Nothin' wasted!

Several years back the Sheriff and Hiway Patrol were doing a search and rescue operation up and down the river canyon that borders my back yard, they were using a helicopter and flyin' up and down about 10 miles of the canyon while using special infrared cameras..My neighbor who's a Deputy Sheriff said they spotted 5 lions during the search which is a heck of a lot of them for such a small area!! I guess my point is the there seems to be a pretty good lion population around here also more turkeys that anyone would want and at any given time I can spot anywhere from 3 to a dozen deer feeding across the canyon and my shrubs and flowers get pruned on a nightly basis. I've never seen a turkey kill (other than by Bow and arrow or shotgun) Deer kills seem rare given the numbers of lions...I guess Goats are easier for the lions! Ha.

Mike

[flyfshrmn]

This picture is a Photoshop hoax. It's been around the net on deer and elk hunting sites for a couple of years and the original picture on the cat is found on a retired wildlife biologist's site. Doesn't mean it can't happen, though. I have seen a hunting kill appropriated by a lion on Stover Mountain, near Chester.

[1flyfisher]

Atleast he had a gun (had the photo been real).
I saw a REAL pic like that as I stated above....only it wasn't a hunter but a mom and her toddler 2 year old in a park with a lion's head peering out through the bushes staring at the kid from about 25/30 feet away lickin its chops.
No attack happened thankfully.