Adhesives....

[Darian]

Some time ago there was a discussion of the use of adhesives in the formation of heads and gluing of hooks into bodies as in Crease Flies (e.g. epoxy, UV cures). As I recall, one of the adhesives mentioned was a product called Liquid Fusion. I purchased a bottle and tied up some RD Crease Flies and regular Crease flies using Liquid Fusion to glue the hook inside the body and coating the outside. I used regular closed cell foam and Loco Foam for the body material. 8)

They were beautiful when finished and our Mexican Captain thought the colors were right and the flies would be great. However, they all turned out to be one fish flies. :confused: On each, the hook became loose and rotated inside the foam body. On more than a couple, the outside coating separated from the foam, taking the eyes and underlying coloring with it. :confused: They did catch fish while they lasted, tho. 8)

Were it not for lack of availability and expense, I would opt for Clear Cure Goo. I tied several Variations of the Tuna Tux for use in salt water using this product and was not disappointed. That stuff is bomb proof. Our captain was casting some Sea Habits out onto the sand while we were fishing "a la playa". The finish on the heads was unaffected.... Easy stuff to use. :) The only problems I have with it are that I've only been able to buy it at Marriott's Fly Shop in Orange County or from the originator and it's expensive. :neutral:

[JD]

Very interesting. Where did you find that Liquid Fusion, btw? I've been meaning to try it for simple stuff where durability is not quite as important (e.g. poxybacks).

Personally, I'm still not sold on the virtue of these light cured products. They are expensive, supposedly have a limited shelf life, and seem not to be as versatile as epoxy, especially if you are used to using a fly turner. They are of course quick and convenient and if that is one's only concern, they certainly fulfill that goal.

[FISHEYE]

I have had no durability problems with liquid fusion heads on sardinas. However, I am not gluing hooks to foam, I am just covering a head and eyes as a replacement for epoxy. I make the heads and then put the flies on a turner. No problemo! I have caught tarpon, roosters, jacks, spanish mackeral, barracuda, and kingfish (to name a few) with these flies and after they have chewed all the mterial off, I still have a head on a hook. I bought it at Michaels in Anchorage, so if they have it I am sure it is widely available. I have seen it in our local flyshops too. I like that LF does not yellow like epoxy.

I have also been using Clear Cure Goo flex for some baitfish flies for tarpon and jacks where I am covering a the entire body (ez body). I use CCG in this application because I want it to set fast. I love this stuff. It is pricey but not expensive IMHO, When I travel to Belize or Mexico or ??? to fish, the cost of a tube of this along with the light is an insignificant cost. This also has not yellowed like epoxy.

[Darian]

I Have to agree that for Sea Habits, liquid Fusion hasn't been as bad as for Crease flies and the RDCF. I believe I can solve the adhesion problem with the hook shank by loosely wrapping the shank of the hook before applying the glue. Liquid Fusion is available from Michael's here, as well. It can be rotated for leveling before curing which takes a about the same amount of time to dry as the slower curing epoxies. Very easy to handle. :)

My experience with UV Knot Sense is that it's slow in leveling but does move and can be rotated until lit with with the UV lamp or sunlight. UV Knot Sense takes about 15 seconds to cure under the lamp. It doesn't yellow over time but does seem to crack on the occasion where a strike against a hard object happens (as has happened on coverings of joining loop knots for me). :-|

With Clear Cure Goo, I've seen that it cures in about 4-5 seconds under the UV lamp, cures clear and doesn't yellow (so far), dries tacky but is handled well with Iso Alcohol and/or Sally Hansen's. Can be readily worked at the vice or rotated until hit with the lamp and appears very durable. :)

Haven't heard a word about a limited shelf life until now.... :confused:

[Jay Murakoshi]

I've been using CCG since it was introduced at the shows. I like the material because it gives you time to shape any type of head. I used it on my sea habits, ALF patterns and some of my minnow patterns. I coat it with a thin Sally Hansen. Like you mentioned, it does not yellow. I've eliminated epoxy due to a limited amount of working time and the yellow coloration after exposing it too a lot of sun. I also use the CCG for counter balancing all my EZ body flies by applying it to the hook shank and letting it snag before hitting it with the light.
In my upcoming fly tying video's, I will be using and talking about the product

Jay

[Jgoding]

Darian,

There is tack free CCG now, although some have eluded that it's not so tack free or completely tack free but I haven't gotten around to getting some. I've also tried Bug Bond from the UK and it has been tack free from the start and works great, it is also UV cured. Sorry to hear about your flies. When using new products in different ways I always tie up 1 or 2 and then see how well they hold up, or even during tying say once you glued the body on and it had dried I would've torqued it really good to see how well it held up. No reason to finish the fly and then find out adhesion to the hook is crap. I know you may not have expected it but it's always something to think about. Another thing to try maybe, is coat the hook with a good thread base or something, then a really fine coating of your adhesive, then try to bond onto that once it is dry as sometimes these products bond to themselves a lot better than to different materials.

[Darian]

Good advice, Jeff.... Thanks for the reminder. :nod: This is an old fly tying step that's easy to overlook. Jay mentioned this to me, too. And I recall reading about doing this in several publications but forgot about it. :confused:

Thanks again.... :D

[Jgoding]

Hi Darian,

I learned quick when I started using dumbell eyes..... test it as soon as you get them glued on because having them start turning after one fish or getting ripped through a snag or just slapping the water on a back cast really sucked. I also found using more pliable adhesives worked better for duability for adhesive purposes which is why CCG etc... work well I believe as they're fairly pliable once dry.

[briansII]

Darian,

I too found that Liquid Fusion is not as durable as other adhesives. I've tied up a few batches of Flashtails with it, and coated the thread and heads. Liquid Fusion seems to become soft after the fly is wet/fished, and has peeled off. While I really like it for it's user friendliness, I won't be using it anymore. I'm switching to CCG. FWIW, I quit using 2 part epoxies on my light colored streamers. After time it yellows, and changes the color of the head. Maybe the fish don't care, but I think it looks bad.

briansII

[Darian]

Yep!!! The Liquid Fusion peeled off of the exterior foam body on my Crease flies. In a couple cases, it completely separated and fell off. Too bad. It seems like a good product. Just not designed for my application. I'll probably continue to use it on Sea Habits, tho.... :neutral: