A discussion about wading...limiting dangers for small guys

[schurmo]

Hey guys! I had a chace to hit the Yuba this weekend with some fellow board members. I got skunked once again, but still loved the hunt!

I did a search on this and it seems there has been some discussion in the past, but I wanted to get some opinions. I am a small guy (once considered average ;) ) 5'10" 150lbs. After my experience of going down in the Feather a year and a half ago, wading the central valley rivers can really scare the hell out of me! The Yuba is no exception. Even wet wading, where I had less clothes to create less surface area for the water to push against me, anytime that water got near waste level, I was SUPER uncomfortable. I am a strong swimmer, but would REALLY not like to go swimming with my fly gear. Other than a wading staff, is there really any other equipment that can help me out. Should I look at investing in a vest with a emergency inflatable PFD built in? What kind of boots should I be looking at, considering felt soles are going to be banned in the near future? Do I need a couple different kinds of boots for different conditions?

I always thought that the feeling of being frustrated for being smaller than everyone else would go away once I got done playing hockey, now fly fishing brings all those feelings back! :D

[chapmag]

I too am 5'10" around 150. And I've been pushed around on the Valley tailwaters.

I always use a wooden wading staff on these rivers. I've had collapsible metal poles fail on me mid-river. My big stick will not break and it will not collapse.

The boot sole hasn't really affected my slipping and sliding on these tailwaters. I've gotten pushed downstream in studded felt, too. Now I use the Simms Vibram unstudded. And I'm open to studding them but I haven't needed to, yet. I'm *very* conscious of keeping excellent balance and a wide stance with the unstudded rubber and that has kept me upright so far. I think I put more faith in the studded felt and took more chances.

The loose small-rock-on-rock riverbeds of the Lower Yuba and the Lower American are the killer for me. When the current and depth are big enough, I start getting pushed downstream over the loose rocks. I've been able to recover by digging in my boots and leaning hard on my wading stick. And then when my heart rate drops a bit, going back to the calm water.

In case I can't recover I wear a PFD. I've gone with the smaller collar-style ones instead of a vest. I tried a PFD fishing vest but it had limited pocket space. I can get the same storage with a fanny pack.

[DFrink]

I too am short, at 5'6" and 170lbs. I have had a scare on the lower yuba myself and didn't enjoy it. I still wade with confidence and don't push my limits too much. One thing I do when crossing the river (which I usually have to do to get to a particular run that I like to fish) is position myself upstream from where I wan to end up so I'm not fighting the current as much. When I return later in the day, I again walk upstream from where I want to end up and wade at a slight down stream angle to my destination. Even for tall people, repecting the power of water is a must. I would consider myself a very strong swimmer, but having waders on makes me a little less confident in my swimming ablitiy. For this reason I keep a pocket knife on in my vest so I can get to it quickly if the waders ever do end up filling up with water. This would be a last resort and I don't plan on ever having to cut my waders, but better safe than sorry.

[Darian]

5' 10" is small :question: Your weight in relation to your height might be of concern but only when wading too deep. Unfortunately, I'm 6' and weigh in at 195 and need to lose at least 10 pounds. :eek: In this brief response, I'm assuming that you are aware of the basics (e.g. wide stance and not turning to face the current, etc.).

When I was younger, I was a very aggressive wader without using a staff and nearly drowned myself more times than I care to admit. :\\ Then it dawned on me that I caught as many fish by wading carefully and using a staff. By careful, I mean not wading waist deep in fast moving water and if the bottom is slippery with moss or algae on the rocks. Remember, all the fish in a river aren't on the opposite side. ;-)

If you need to wear a PFD, there're some models that are wearable on a belt like a fanny pack. They inflate thru CO2 by a pulling a tab and are Coast Guard approved. After inflation, slip the bladder over your head. Much more comfortable to wear when not inflated than the vest or the collar types. Check 'em out a marine supply stores. 8)

[schurmo]

Hey guys, thanks for all the great tips! There is some really good info here, and a lot to help me become safer at wading. One more question I have, do you wade facing sideways, upstream or downstream? The most uncomfortable for me is facing downstream, but I have heard that that is one of the safest ways. I feel most comfortable facing upstream, which I have heard is one of the most unsafest ways because of falling face down in the water (which is what I did in the Feather!). I feel like being on my toes versus being on my heels gives me so much more control, so I must be missing something. Do you guys dig in with your heels? Do you side shuffle your feet. I can definitely feel when I am in a river that my most dangerous moments are when I lift my feet up off the bottom too far, so I at least try and keep them as close to the bottom as possible.

Thanks again for all your info guys! I really appreciate it!

[Darian]

Schurmo,.... If I understand the description of how you wade in your question correctly, you're facing either upstream or downstream.... That means you have the widest part of your body (front or back) either pushing against or being pushed by the current. Also, it means that your stance provides the least amount of stability. :confused:

You should always try to wade with the current pressing against one lateral side or the other of your body. Provides a thinner profile for the current to act on. That reduces the affect of the current and allows a wide stance to provide two anchor points for stability even when moving. 8)

[schurmo]

Yeah, that's what I figured Darian. I think I unintentionally change my stance in the river while wading depending how much I feel the river is pushing me around, and I think that's one of my problems. I try to do laterally as much as possible but have caught myself facing upstream when the force of the river increases or I hit a deeper part...which is totally counter intuitive. I am trading less surface are for the water to push on for what I feel is a more solid stance (facing up stream) and I need to stop myself from doing that. I think it's just going to take more practice and continuing to listen to that little voice inside my head, even if it means I catch less fish. :D I wonder if I should develop a fly fishing hat that has a velcro loop on it that you could attach your fly rod to so that when you start to wade, you attach your rod to the top of your head and have two hands to help balance and use a wading staff! Hahahaha. Thanks again!

[wjorg]

If I can do it so can you. Im a cross between Bull from Night Court and Kramer. Reformed klutz. I might be tall but that makes my legs apt to be swept out from underneath me.

Put you rod under your armpit and dont let go. I wouldnt use and tether cords or nothing, all that gear complicates things. Ive seen guys fall because of their wading staff...

Try wading now in the summer in swimming shorts, wading socks and your wading boots. No gear. So if you fall in who gives a hoot. You wont loose anything. If you drown we'll memorialize you on the Darwin Awards. Get comfortable.

From what youve described it seems you know enough, you just have to build the muscle memory to get comfortable. When you're uncomfortable that makes you stiff, rigid and ready to twitch and fall. I cant tell you how many times Ive had to moonwalk down the river after falling into a pocket, thinking i was scott free, then wham, face in the water. Ive got this thing where I hook a badass fish after I fall in, always. So Ive gotta laugh even in winter...

So thats why I say get used to wading in warm summer flows. The watt clay slots are tricky enough for some good practice, good luck.

[BillB]

Hey schurmo I can't say much about small as I come in with mass/height ratio similar to Darian. Now if you throw in clumsy I can speak to that! How about having the nickname of Lurch since you were about 13 (stop laughing Charlie)? Funny (or not) thing happens as we immerse ourselves in water deeper than the crotch. We begin to float. Odd feeling having less pressure on the size 12's. As I have aged I don't wade as deep as I once did, sometimes use a staff, don't enter the surf much more than knee deep, and am uncomfortable not being able to see the bottom I am wading. I am very uncomfortable in low light on the clay banks. Since I fish alone most often I too am investigating a PFD. Good practice(s) try to stay facing perpendicular to the flow, don't lift a foot until the other is firmly planted and shuffle!

[troutbm]

Check out the podcast on the orvis sight. theres one on wading.

[Rick J]

it is always a good thing when you start out to wade in waste deep - this forces the air out of the wader legs, then cinch your wading belt up tight - this won't stop all the air from getting back in but a number of folks have drowned because when they fell, the air in the bottom of their waders forced their feet up and they tipped over backwards and hit their heads on rocks

[huntindog]

i just cant resist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NvgLkuEtkA

[PMD]

I'm 5'7" on my tallest days and about 145 lbs. I just bought a 10' rod so I should be able to stay a foot closer to shore. Now instead of getting in waste deep I'm about mid thigh.:D...........................Right?

[BillB]

Oh my gosh Dog, I had completely forgotten, thankfully, that song now it's stuck in the internal drive! Why didn't you resist? I guess resistance was futile!

[BobVP]

I like what everyone here has written...and really appreciated the Randy Newman connection, even though I am not of that ilk.

One thing I learned in swiftwater rescue is how to wade across a river when you have a few friends around to help. This won't help your wading to fish but comes in handy when three of you want to get across the river.

The basics are this: Three people make a triangle with their arms on each others shoulders and the "unit" moves in a slow circular motion across. This gives everyone multiple anchor points at any given time. I've done it on a few rivers I would never cross on my own and it works.

[Mike Churchill]

I am also vertically challenged at a short-legged 5'6" and 210 or so these days. I got my first real scare wading the Lower Sac at the Posse Grounds in Redding a few years ago when I got waist deep in fast current and realized that I was traveling down stream towards deeper water without moving my feet. Combination of gravel bottom, heavy current and in too deep is not good.

I'm 42 and realized a while back that: 1) the body is no longer 17 / I am not immortal, and 2) the wife and kids expect me to come home after each day of fishing.

I also used to be a member of the Flycasters club in San Jose. Not long before I joined in 1999, one of the members nearly bought the farm upstream of the Highway 20 bridge on the Yuba on a cold overcast day when the flows were up. He was part of a small group that hiked up from the bridge a ways before fishing. When they started to fish, he realized he had forgotten an important piece of equipment (fly boxes or something). Annoyed and distracted, he waded in too aggressively, slipped and went down in a fast riffle. His waders filled with water and he reached the far bank in a deep pool where it was too steep to climb out.

He clung to a rock for a few minutes while his friends tried to figure out how to get to him. They had a rope but it was too short to reach him. Finally, the guy told them he was getting hypothermia and couldn't hang on much longer. Two of his friends then stripped down and swam across, tied the rope to him, and pulled him back across the river. Between the 4 or 5 guys with dry clothes, they came up with a set of dry clothes to put on him, then dragged him the mile or two back down stream to their cars, where they warmed him up.

As you might expect, he was very grateful to the buddies who saved his life. He not only bought himself an inflatable pdf, he bought one for each of them. (They were close to $100 each back then if I recall.)

As a result of hearing that story from one of the guys who was with him and my own realizations noted above, when wading big water I always carry a staff, wear an inflatable pfd, and fish with company. When you need to cross water that is questionable, lock elbows with a buddy. Two guys with their staffs in their outside hands are much more stable than one guy alone.

Mike

[wjorg]

....fell in the Stanislaus one year on March 2nd. Ended up on the far bank. Got Hypothermic, clouded my mind. I kept thinking about swimming back across to get the warm blanket in my car. Woulda died...

Stripped down naked, funniest thing was the fear of some poor fisherman who might come down river and see me doing jumping jacks, naked, warming up. Thank God for polypropelene thermals. They dry quick enough and retain greater than 50% insulative value even when damp/wet. Cotton kills!

[aaron]

The basics are this: Three people make a triangle with their arms on each others shoulders and the "unit" moves in a slow circular motion across. This gives everyone multiple anchor points at any given time. I've done it on a few rivers I would never cross on my own and it works.

Not really an accepted practice anymore. Most risk management teams are backing the NOLS technique. As goofy as it looks it works extremely well with as few as 3 people. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRKBU1D-5u0


Stripped down naked, funniest thing was the fear of some poor fisherman who might come down river and see me doing jumping jacks, naked, warming up. Thank God for polypropelene thermals. They dry quick enough and retain greater than 50% insulative value even when damp/wet. Cotton kills!
You're giving me nightmares Walter! Just ring out the water and get dressed asap for both our sake next time. Modern polypro is much higher than %50 when wet now. I also really like merino wool as it doesn't hold the stank that other synthetics do and is still very warm when wet.

[Ed Wahl]

So, to sum up this discussion.

The argument to fish naked appears to be the strongest.

Much safer than wearing waders or cotton clothing.

You fall in, get out, a few minutes later you're good to go.

No fuss, no muss.

Although, you guys describing yourselves as 'small' might have to overcome a bit of embarrassment.

Good night folks, thank you very much.

Don't forget to tip the servers.

Ed

[Darian]

Hmmm,.... Fishin' buck naked.... :-k What about.... shrinkage :question: :question: :lol:

[royewest]

I'd appreciate hearing what specific models of pfds folks have experience with.

In a lot of our rivers, you don't need to be <7' tall to get over your head quickly.

[Lance Gray]

Wading safe is an art. As anything else there are people out there to help you. My philosophy is to wade into a safe position to cast to a particular holding area or run. If you can not make a presentation in a safe manner and you push it - well things happen as all of the others have mentioned in their post.

I couple of weeks ago while conducting a presentation at a club I started offering wading schools to anglers who needed a little more instruction. In fact you can find it on my website. No other guide or fly shop is offering this type of school. We teach you how to wade safe, cast and continue to have a good day while fishing - not body surfing the river or worse.

If you would like information on the school go to my website and click on clinics.

http://www.lancegrayandcompany.com

Wade Safe ---
Lance Gray
530-517-2204

[BillB]

Yep, you can always count on Ed to get to the "meat" of the discussion. I'm not so much concerned about shrinkage as errant cast! Another reason for barbless.

As a side bar does it make a difference if you are impaled by a bronze, tin, colored or stainless hook?

[Darian]

Bill,.... As a person who has removed his share of hooks from himself I can say, hooked is hooked!!! The only type of hook I'd be concerned about is the dirty or rusty one.... :eek: Shrinkage could be an advantage as it'd be the only part of your anatomy that wouldn't be in danger of being hooked.... :lol:

Lance,.... Instruction in wading safely is a sadly neglected subject. Kudo's to you for turning this into an opportunity to educate. =D&gt; It's a lot more important wade safely than to cast correctly (....that is if we intend to survive to fish another day). :nod:

[BillB]

Going to date myself I'm sure, but for those of you who know who Joe Brooks is I believe he did a series of studies (investigations really) wading safety. To the best of my recollection he thought many of the popular theories on wading safety, and the results of not doing so, were bogus. Now no one go out and try jumping from the Watt bridge just to see if you waders actually do fill with water, but I do remember that Joe did such things.