Sticky Rubber ?!?!?

[fishabuoy]

With the issues and concerns of felt soled wading boots spreading NZ Mud snails, Whirling Disease, and other exotics that harm trout populations, and the fact that my old Sims studded felts were wearing out after about 15yrs of hard use (not to mention hurting my feet) I took the plunge and bought a new pair of boots that have multiple options for soles. In addition to felts and studded felts, I decided to give the sticky rubber soles a shot since I was getting new boots anyway.

So the last time I was out on the Merced a few weeks back, I tried the studded stealth rubber soles on my new boots, and I have to say....I hated them :mad: . I never felt sure-footed, never felt like I was on even/level footing, always felt like I was about to lose it, and had difficultly wading the simplest of lies trying to get close enough to nymph a particular piece of water.

I have fallen only once with felt soled and studded felt in 30+ years of stream fishing, and I fell 3x in the span of a couple hours, including a ridiculously silly fall that absolutely drenched me and half filled my waders. The Merced is not known as a particularly difficult stream to wade (NOTHING compared to the PIT, that's for sure!!!) After getting bruised and battered for the first few hours I switched the soles out to studded felts (just to be sure it wasn't ME...) & I was back to wading just fine - no slipping, consistent solid footing when and where I needed it for the rest of the day.

So I'm curious, with the push to ban felts, how have the rest of you that have tried them fared with these so called "sticky rubber" wading boots ?? Have you noticed a difference among brands of wading boots and the effectiveness of their rubber sole options ? How about studded rubber vs un-studded ? Any advice, suggestions, or insight is greatly appreciated.

best-
Bob V

[troutbm]

Back in april I bought a pair of korkers boots with the interchangable soles. I've used em all, including, Sticky rubber, studded rubber, felt, and studded felt. There is absolulty no question what so ever that studded felt provides the overall best grip when wading in a variety of rivers. Studded rubber is the second best choice. I'd highly recomend the korkers boots. Omnitrax soles and the BOA wire lace system has been great. Won't be buying no simms ever again.

[Troutstalker55B]

I'm happy with my Korkers boots as well! This is the first boot I have had in a long time that did not blow up after one season. Felt soles with or without studs is the best I've found, I have tried sticky rubber and did not like them. If your concerned with mud snails and the like, just stick your boots in the freezer for a few days - problem solved.

Jon.

[Bob Laskodi]

Easier solution that doesn't piss off your wife!!!! Rinse thoroughly in clean water, and then put them in the sun to dry for a few days. It they're completely dry for 24 hours laying in the sun (felt up) you've killed off everything.

[PMD]

I bought the Simms with the Vibram rubber last summer and they were pretty much useless until I added the metal "Hardbite" star shaped cleats to them. Now I can pretty much walk up 45 degree rocks without slipping. My next pair will be the Korkers though.

[SHigSpeed]

I just bought a pair of Korkers sandals and added a pair of studded felts for wet wading. I've been wearing them around the house with the lug soles to break 'em in and I like them a lot. Hope to get them wet before the end of the season with the felt/studs though.

I hear nothing but good things about the studded felts, but because of the way the soles are made it sure seems like the studs stick way out. Would seem that a LOT of the pressure would be on the studs alone and not distributed on the felt as much.

I did have a pair of Korkers boots at one time but I returned them because they didn't grip well around the toes because the felt was inset. I'm hoping the studded felt will alleviate this concern (I only had plain felts before). I loved how light and how quickly they dried, but the grip of my felt/studded Patagonias is much better. Now I can compare studded felt to studded felt.

_SHig

[Craig Nielsen]

Bob:
I have not been a fan of rubber soles or cleats but have to admit I am pleasantly surprised by the newest star sole design by Simms on my Freestones. I have tested them four to six days a week since the start of the season, mostly on the Upper Sac, McCloud and Pit Rivers and they have far exceeded my expectations.

At the outset they were not quite as grippy in the water as a new pair of felt soled Patagonias that to date have been my boot of choice. But the soles on the Simms have not worn nearly as much as felts so have better grip than a pair of felted boots with a similar number of days. I expect this to only get better. I typically wear out two pairs of boots a season, but from the looks of it, this pair might make it through so are a better value as well.

I also mentioned I am not a fan of cleats. This is entirely a personal choice but I'll offer my reasoning which hopefully will aid you in deciding what best suits you. Most important to me, is that while cleats provide superior grip in the water, they are less grippy on shore. Only once have I hurt myself seriously while in the water as water tends to cushion a fall. On shore I have slipped and ended my day on several occasions. For this reason I mostly save my cleated boots (with felt) for places and streams such as the Umpqua were an unwanted swim can be serious. A minor problem with cleated boots is also that they are also heavier, making unwanted swims more dangerous and I find them less comfortable and harder on my feet on trips that involve long hikes.

I hope this helps. Let us know what soles you decide work best and how you like your new purchase!

[Jaybinder]

When I was a kid I did a lot of rock climbing. We would take a wire brush to our new climbing shoes. Just enough to rough up the rubber. Not sure if it'll help but it's worth a try.

If properly treated are felt soles really that bad?

[Ralph]

If properly treated are felt soles really that bad?

Properly treated felts are environmentally SAFER than rubber soled boots that have been simply rinsed. Products such as Sparquat (Google it) have been used in the aquaculture industry for decades against a wide array of aquatic nuisance species with a remarkable effectiveness and safety record. Due to licensing and liability concerns fly shops won't sell the stuff. Scott Rods sold, at cost, Sparquat to fly shops under the label "Brite Water". They couldn't move it.

If you have time, thorough freezing or drying also effectively treats felt.

At Three Dollar Bridge in Montana where the parking areas are plastered with NZ mud snail warnings, over 80% of anglers admitted they had come from or were traveling to other waters without decontaminating their gear (probably another 10% were lying). Apathy and laziness is driving agencies to modify and limit wading gear choices.

[junebug]

Hey Bob,
It's been years since I've had felt soles. My first switch was to the simms L2 aquastealth. It took a month or so to learn what to expect in different situations, but eventually got to where I loved em. I do a lot of hiking and rubber seemed best for me. They were slippery in the local tailwater, but everything is.

When the L2's wore out I had planned to get korkers. Heck Weir had em on the vids, they had to be good. The guy I spend most trips with had a pair and I spent many miles behind him on the trail and noticed his feet tilted inward. It looked uncomfortable. He said it was noticeable and he also had problems with the sole latching in. Not sure if that's common. After lots of hype about the vibram sole I bought riversheds. Talk about slippery!! I keep telling myself that I will get used to them the way I did my beloved aquastealth. Sounds like I should try the hard bite. I heard the L2 felts are super cheap right now, so I may pick a pair up for certain places.

Ralph it's sad that we are our own worst enemy when it comes to NZMS spread. I'm suprised they got that many people to admit to the blatant laziness.

Dave E.

[Fats]

I've got to admit... I'm very interested in this. My wife is not a strong wader and she doesn't do well with slipping and sliding around on rocks. It freaks her out, she looks down, vertigo kicks in and I've got an issue on my hands. The Felt with Studs have been a God Send for her... I am concerned about the environmental impact of all this stuff and was hoping to hear better reports about the rubber/cleat combo. I don't think she will be able to get up that learning curve easily which bums me out.

I may look at getting a pair of something first to dry run them and then work with my wife. My issue is that I've got a set of Simms G-3 boots with the hard bite studs that will last for a long while... After two seasons I may be due for some new studs but that is about it.

Can you get the Simms boots re-soled with the vibram sole?

[michaeln]

I have the Simms Guide G4s with the Vibrams. I also have the "star" studs. What worries me about the whole rubber thing though is that lots of stuff can get spread not by the soles of your boots, but carried in all the little nooks and crannies.

If you don't take the laces out and clean all the folds in the tongue area and wash the laces too, and scrub the areas where the soles join the rest of the boot, the rubber soles may give you a false sense of security. If you don't thoroughly clean and dry your boots, you can be spreading bad stuff no matter what kind of soles you have.

[Mike O]

I have the Simms Guide G4s with the Vibrams. I also have the "star" studs. What worries me about the whole rubber thing though is that lots of stuff can get spread not by the soles of your boots, but carried in all the little nooks and crannies.

If you don't take the laces out and clean all the folds in the tongue area and wash the laces too, and scrub the areas where the soles join the rest of the boot, the rubber soles may give you a false sense of security. If you don't thoroughly clean and dry your boots, you can be spreading bad stuff no matter what kind of soles you have.

And how many people out there are going to follow this sound advice? I believe most are going to say to themselves "I'm Safe...I have rubber soles!!"...and this is going to be just as big a problem as using felt boots.

And how many people on vacation have the resources to clean boots properly? Especially when travelling between watersheds, while at the same time camping? I don't have a freezer handy when I do this. I also can't dry my boots in the sun between rivers, as it is dark when I get off the river, and just light when I get back on. So what do I do? Buy rubber soles, and don't worry about it because the gummint says I am OK.

The real reason for the legislation? Many of us have felt, and don't need new boots...and now we do. This is overlegislation at its most perverse.

[michaeln]

And how many people out there are going to follow this sound advice? I believe most are going to say to themselves "I'm Safe...I have rubber soles!!"...and this is going to be just as big a problem as using felt boots.

... or a bigger problem. With felt, some guys might feel it necessary to thoroughly clean the boots (although I am sure the vast majority won't). With rubber soles, probably only a tiny percentage will clean them.

The only real solution is probably multiple pair of boots. One pair for places you know to be infected, and another pair that will NEVER get worn in any of those places.

I don't think most people will do that either. It happens that I no longer fish rivers and streams and am 100% stillwater. When I found out that Lake Sonoma was infected, I declined to fish there, and I will decline to fish any water that is known to be infected.

Now what are we going to do about those irresponsible egrets and herons and waterfowl that NEVER decontaminate their feet and certainly don't have multiple pairs of feet?

[SHigSpeed]

Multiple pairs would seem to work - and Korkers would be the ideal way so you have one pair of boots and a set of soles for each watershed. Also, similar to a steelhead punchcard where the requirement is to fill it out before you fish, you'd be required to indelibly mark the soles (or shoes) with the watershed and face a fine if you are inspected and are wearing the wrong boots or are not marked.

Expensive, but maybe a good alternative for those that MUST have felt. I'd be open to the idea since I HATE slipping and falling or pulling a muscle to prevent this.

_SHig

[joshfish]

im with michaeln. i believe a second pair of boots marked is the way to go. i also believe a second pair of waders for those creeks also. i only have one pair of boots and waders right now and they have only been in a few streams none of which are known to have mud snails. there are a couple places like putah that i want to fish but im going wait until i can afford a second set of boots and waders or buy a cheap set for those streams.

[michaeln]

I don't know, but Putah might be warm enough weather now that you can wet wade it.

[michaeln]

Multiple pairs would seem to work - and Korkers would be the ideal way so you have one pair of boots and a set of soles for each watershed

You'd still have all the places on the uppers to disinfect. Korkers with multiple soles isn't the same as multiple pair of boots from that perspective.

[SHigSpeed]

You'd still have all the places on the uppers to disinfect. Korkers with multiple soles isn't the same as multiple pair of boots from that perspective.

True, but still as good if not better than rubber soles boots.

_SHig

[wjorg]

Easier solution that doesn't piss off your wife!!!! Rinse thoroughly in clean water, and then put them in the sun to dry for a few days. It they're completely dry for 24 hours laying in the sun (felt up) you've killed off everything.

Not true, sorry I dont have but I saw research that 24 hours dry dosnt kill everything. Also...parts of the boots like the seams arnt dry where you cant see.

That is why this whole felt ban is BS, because the laces and btw seams can hold plenty of dydimo and NZM. Its all PR and marketing on the part of the companies, maybe the actual scientists-no.

Nonetheless I have not met one individual who can tell me and show me their aquastealth, vibram or other nonstudded rubber soles are even SAFE AT ALL.

[Ralph]

I found Sparquat at Sacramento Janitorial Supply (probably available at any other janitorial supply house). You have to buy it by the gallon, but you only use a small amount and it has an infinite shelf life. The following instructions are considered the Best Management Practices that must be followed by employees and contractors working for DF&G and USFWS. The hardest part is picking up the phone and ordering a can. Get a 5 gallon bucket for your club or go in with a few friends to split a gallon. Your entire boot, net, wader gets decontaminated in 5 minutes.

If you are afraid the chemical will ruin your $800. waders, call the Nimbus pathology lab at DFG where they have been soaking and scrubbing with this stuff for years. Every salmon farm and aquaculture facility in the world uses some form of the product.

http://www.fcmetrics.com/serv_invasiveSpecies.php?exp=sub9

[michaeln]

Nonetheless I have not met one individual who can tell me and show me their aquastealth, vibram or other nonstudded rubber soles are even SAFE AT ALL.

I spent one day wading in my Simms G4 Vibrams with the star cleats. Was on the lower Yuba river and they felt pretty secure to me. That's my only experience wading in a river / stream for me though.

[caltagm]

I've used my Simms Vibrams all over the Sierra all season. I haven't had any slips or issues at all. In fact, I find that they are even better than felts when scrambling up and down banks and hiking to and from creeks. And besides, it's a small price to pay even if it only helps the habitats a little bit.

[wjorg]

I spent one day wading in my Simms G4 Vibrams with the star cleats. Was on the lower Yuba river and they felt pretty secure to me. That's my only experience wading in a river / stream for me though.

Michael,
If you are talking the rubber star pattern by "cleats," thats good to hear. If you mean cleats as in metal, no wonder they work alright. And I am a reformed klutz so Ive learned how not to fall...but Im not the omniscient judge.

I tried the new vibram patter when a prototype....it was like ice skating...

[michaeln]

Michael,
If you are talking the rubber star pattern by "cleats," thats good to hear. If you mean cleats as in metal, no wonder they work alright. And I am a reformed klutz so Ive learned how not to fall...but Im not the omniscient judge.

I tried the new vibram patter when a prototype....it was like ice skating...

I'm talking the Vibram soles with these:

http://www.ramseyoutdoor.com/productimages/53ec9b07-b371-4232-9bc5-3beff2dbc167.jpg

[wjorg]

Teflon would stick with those on it......

: )

Dont ever take those off....The only people I find who convince me the rubber works end up having metal cleats....

[Bob Laskodi]

In regards to the person who said "not true" in regards to drying (known as dessication) not being effective, here is a direct quote from a source recommending alternatives to chemical treatments for dealing with ANS that is utilized by all biological field personnel. "Alternatively, if equipment will not be put into immediate use it can be placed out to air-dry in a low-humidity environment for at least 48-hours after all mud and debris has been removed. All surfaces of air-dried equipment should remain free of surface contact, allowing for maximum airflow across all surfaces." In addition, drying is the recommended course of action from the Center for Aquatic Nuisance Species. If every angler did nothing more than rinsing and drying out their equipment after use, they would contribute greatly to stopping the spread of ANS without resorting to expensive "special boots" (which won't do squat for ANS, IMNSHO) or chemical treatment. And while Sparquat (and it's myriad derivatives) does indeed work, here is the MSDS for it. You may want to read this before you go dipping your stuff in it. Besides, I'm not convinced that "Joe Average Angler" is gonna carry around a five gallon container of this stuff and dispose of the used product properly, like trained field personnel will.
http://www.spartanchemical.com/sfa/MSDSRep.nsf/DocId/ee80d47508fb542285257416004e8342!OpenDocument
Lastly, I have the new Orvis Ecotrax wading boots, and while I've only used them a few times so far, I am satisified with their performance in the water and downright giddy with glee in their performance on dry land and rocks. And these are without the studs. I guess the boot you pick all depends on where you want to fall, in the water or on land!!!