Davis Lake 7/11-7/17

[1flyfisher]

I got up there Sunday night. I saw a big cinnamon bear right on the side of the road by the turn off to the lookout. He went for a tree, put his paws on it but then ran off 50 feet or so, looked back at me and casually walked away. They were working on the road into jenkins grading it and such. There were a lot of cows and I counted 4 bulls. They were coming down to the ends of the points and into the cars at cow. They seemed to want to rub around on peoples trucks. Fortunately they only licked mine and didn't leave any scratches.

Fished monday-today sat the 17th, 6 days. I fished from fugawee to mosquito. I caught fish every day with all fish 16" or better. I mostly prowled the shorelines every where I went as there were more damsels there and more fish. Best day (mon) was a bakers dozen landed with a few more missed grabs by dinkers, landed 5 after 4 pm. Most days there was a significant drop off in the fishing after 11 and as early as 9:30-10 when the wind would come up. Any breeze put a quick halt to any risers. I paddled (thu) starting at 11:00 am from fugawee over to freeman down one side of freeman and up the other, around to mosquito prowling the shoreline(looking for damsels and snails) and I didn't see any damsels swimming for that entire paddle. Zero. Zilch. Fished south of cow, along the west shore mostly. I saw few damsels nymphs swimming anywhere all week. No one I talked to saw many, some didn't see any at all. I saw Barely a half dozen swimmers most days and just 3-4 swimmers a day on average. On monday I fished from 8 am to 6 pm. I got fish all day on and off. After 4 pm I landed 5 and lost 3, between 4-6pm on a particular spot. That was not to repeat itself as I tried it a few more days around those times. Most days I fished 8-5, 8-4. I caught fish every day. Today Sat I fished 7-12. 3 fish didn't have any parasites. One was 21" and clean a real nice fish. I hooked 2 nice <<size>> fish in the lip that began hemorrhaging blood out their gills and bled to death. One of the fish had part of its gill cover eaten away and a big hole(1/4") in its side. I looked into their gills and it was filled with gill maggots and their gills were a mess with parts missing. All fish I caught were 16" or better with many around 18-19. They all fought ok (none into my backing yet this year) except for the two that were really massively infested. They dropped the water level a bit more and as of thu I finally found a few weed beds starting to come through the surface straight out from cow and some south of cow. Prior to that, Mon-wed there were no weed beds coming to the surface that I could see/find anywhere. There was only a minor trickle of damsel nymphs all week, but the fish were very willing to eat a fake one except when they were on the midges. When I found fish hard on the midges I tried the damsel but got few takes. I'd put on a midge/callibaetis and got more fish. I saw most fish rising to small midges 8-9:30 or so and slashing/gulping the occasional callibaetis dun/spinner. That was short lived and any risers would stop rising as soon as a breeze hit the water. That happened daily around 9:30-10. It really got tough for everyone after 11. Everyone I talked to caught at least a few fish, reporting fish from 12-19". Some people told me they didn't see any damsels. After 11 it really got beautiful out there at that time and afternoons were really nice with the sun on the water. I went for a swim daily. On monday I counted 3 damsel nymphs swimming and 3 climbing up my boat for the day. That was roughly to continue for the rest of the week with a bit more on thu and fri. I found more bugs swimming close to shore and climbing up the bank(and onto my boat) with only a few anywhere else. Yesterday I saw the most bugs maybe a half dozen swimmers and I had about that many climb up my boat and hatch. Today sat we saw few bugs swimming anywhere at all around cow/fugawee. The people I talked to all week reported similar lack of damsels anywhere. I saw a half dozen or so blood midges on the surface fri afternoon while paddling back from mosquito, that was in the middle of the lake. If you go don't expect anything more than a trickle of damsels if that. Certainly nothing even remotely resembling a damsel hatch.

Get on the water early. It dies early. When it does try a callibaetis with a size 18' zebra midge trailer. After 11 try an intermediate with a wiggle tail or damsel 6 feet deep. You can catch fish but it is very slow.

I did not see one snail anywhere. :( I went looking for them in the afternoon after 11 as I went for a long paddle looking for damsels, weed beds and some exercise. I went to a place I saw some last summer. They were not there. They have vanished. I have not seen one snail yet this year from fugawee to mosquito.

Oh yeah. I had a fish cruise past in 2 feet of water, 10 feet from the bank swim right next to and along my flyline(I didn't dare pick up) about 20 feet of flyline, and the entire length of my leader tippet and eat my bug. I thought no way this fish would eat my damsel after seeing all that flyline and leader. But it did. Nice 19" fish not too badly chewed up by parasites.

One more thing to add. It was odd because the few damsels I saw were very early 8-9:30 and then they stopped. I never saw one swimming any day after 11.

[medfly]

gotta love those davis trouts, they all ride the short bus to school every morning

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

I guess some people just wad Davis Lake becuase the fish do come into the shallows to feed.

[michaeln]

Thanks for the detailed report.



3 fish didn't have any parasites. One was 21" and clean a real nice fish. I hooked 2 nice <<size>> fish in the lip that began hemorrhaging blood out their gills and bled to death. One of the fish had part of its gill cover eaten away and a big hole(1/4") in its side. I looked into their gills and it was filled with gill maggots and their gills were a mess with parts missing.

It's unfortunate that the DFG seems to think there is nothing that can be done about the copepod issue at Davis. That tells me the problem will only get worse, and it's already bad enough that I really have no desire to go there again. Just reading your report made me feel kind of ill.

I emailed DFG this morning about the issue, and I would encourage others to do so too... squeaky wheel and all that. Email them at R2Info@dfg.ca.gov and ask them what they plan to do to address this problem.

[jayclarkflyfishing]

I haven't been able to get to the lake lately and I was wondering what the water temps that you were reading.

Thanks
Jay

PS Glad you were getting some decent fish!

[1flyfisher]

I saw fish swirling and rising a few feet from the bank in a foot of water all week. I watched fish swim past me all week long in 2-3 feet deep of water right in front of me. They'll cruise along in 2-3 feet and then go for a bug in a foot of water literally 5 or so feet from the bank. I had many fish swirl and rise a few feet from the end of my kayak, I could just about poke them with the tip of my rod. I almost did. I tried to just for kicks but missed. I back up (push)the back of my kayak up the bank and sit in it keeping a low profile. I go to a spot I know the fish will come in to the bank for damsels. I sit and wait and let the fish come to me. I don't flail away blind casting a lot (if I can help it). I try and avoid lining and making my presence known to the fish. I will just sit and wait without casting for a target/riser and then make my presentation. You don't even need to step in the water. You can literally stand 20 feet back from shore and cast your damsel 5 feet out and catch fish in the shallowest of water. Unfortunately few people do this. I guess it is a natural inclination for folks to try and wade out far from shore and throw their bug out far. Fish will come right to the bank IF you let them. The fish will work up and down the banks of the points and coves. I stay away from people that wade out from the bank because that puts them right in the intended path and area of where the fish are working and want to be. I see guys wading out from the bank and trying to huck it out there. I am catching fish 30 feet behind them. Sometimes you can get them from the bank sometimes you need a float tube. depends



I guess some people just wad Davis Lake becuase the fish do come into the shallows to feed.

[1flyfisher]

I caught a few that were clean. Other people told me they caught a few that were clean. Mostly larger fish. I don't know if they were holdovers or newly planted. Maybe it will begin to work itself out.



I will do as you suggest and also email dfg. Yes squeaky wheel may be a good thing here with this issue.




Thanks for the detailed report.



It's unfortunate that the DFG seems to think there is nothing that can be done about the copepod issue at Davis. That tells me the problem will only get worse, and it's already bad enough that I really have no desire to go there again. Just reading your report made me feel kind of ill.

I emailed DFG this morning about the issue, and I would encourage others to do so too... squeaky wheel and all that. Email them at R2Info@dfg.ca.gov and ask them what they plan to do to address this problem.

[1flyfisher]

I never use my depth finder at davis anymore so I didn't get a digital temp reading.
It was surprisingly cool air temp wise all week (mid 80's) despite the blistering 100 degree + heat in reno. It was breezy early and that kept air and water temps from shooting up.
Friday got hot around 2 when the breeze died for an hour and I had to do my first hat dip of the year and I had to pour water on my shirt. I am usually having to do them by mid/late june constantly. But then the breeze came back up and it became comfortable again.
The fish I caught showed no signs of any heat stress and were quite feisty upon release. I didn't have to nurse any.
I swam in the lake daily. I found a lot of cool water.
Last summer was bad water temp wise. The water this year is nice....high, deep and cooler and there are a lot of springs all over pumping in cool oxygen rich water.
I think so far so good as far as water temps for the moment, but it may get too hot soon.
If you are concerned about water temps and having a fish croak on you I would suggest you give it a go and check things out. I think you will be ok with the current conditions and not waste a trip. At least early might suit you. The fish are quitting early anyway.

There were better fish around the west shore area. Not many but at least a few. People I talked to got some better fish they told me. Everyone caught at least a few fish. There was still a pod of dinks that were hanging around in the middle of the bay south of cow. Some people played with them. I went elsewhere. I found a decent small pod of nicer size fish working a spot daily and I stuck with them for the week for the most part.

I think I am done for now. It's getting a little dicey. It was slowing down fast. Getting hotter day by day. Fish were quitting early. Few bugs. etc etc etc....
Hopefully fall will kick out some hogs.
Good Luck if you go.





I haven't been able to get to the lake lately and I was wondering what the water temps that you were reading.

Thanks
Jay

PS Glad you were getting some decent fish!

[1flyfisher]

Also a guy i met told me he caught a sunfish but wasn't sure what exact kind it was. he didn't keep it.

[gene goss]

I caught a sunfish there last week....soooooo did these sunfish survive the poisoning....or did DFG plant the sunfish in Davis Lake ????????

[1flyfisher]

DFG didn't plant the sunfish or catfish or anything besides trout. So far the catfish survived the rotenone and the sunfish, crawfish as well. The catfish were expected to survive the rotenone 07 and the sunfish survived the first rotenone treatment in 97. I believe CADFG expected the sunfish might also survive a second rotenone and they stated that the catfish would likely survive it. I saw a few schools of small fish, tiny from 1/2" to maybe 2.5/3" the last few weeks. I couldn't identify them but I now believe they were sunfish fry.

There have been all sorts of fish in davis over the years. Some planted by CADFG most illegally dumped in by people. Tahoe Suckers, Lahontan Redsides, speckled dace and maybe some other shiner/minnows that I can't remember are native to the creek system.

All kinds of sunfish (bluegills, pumpkin seeds, red ear, etc) , Golden Shiners, LMB Bass, Brown Bullhead, Black Bullhead, coho, kings, brookies, browns, cutthroats, rainbows (colemans, eagles, kamloops), pike etc. The trouts and salmon were planted by CADFG, all the rest were illegally planted. Surprisingly no smallies. People have been putting smallies everywhere.....Prosser, Stampede, Boca, ....



I caught a sunfish there last week....soooooo did these sunfish survive the poisoning....or did DFG plant the sunfish in Davis Lake ????????

[gene goss]

DFG didn't plant the sunfish or catfish or anything besides trout. So far the catfish survived the rotenone and the sunfish, crawfish as well. The catfish were expected to survive the rotenone 07 and the sunfish survived the first rotenone treatment in 97. I believe CADFG expected the sunfish might also survive a second rotenone and they stated that the catfish would likely survive it. I saw a few schools of small fish, tiny from 1/2" to maybe 2.5/3" the last few weeks. I couldn't identify them but I now believe they were sunfish fry.

There have been all sorts of fish in davis over the years. Some planted by CADFG most illegally dumped in by people. Tahoe Suckers, Lahontan Redsides, speckled dace and maybe some other shiner/minnows that I can't remember are native to the creek system.

All kinds of sunfish (bluegills, pumpkin seeds, red ear, etc) , Golden Shiners, LMB Bass, Brown Bullhead, Black Bullhead, coho, kings, brookies, browns, cutthroats, rainbows (colemans, eagles, kamloops), pike etc. The trouts and salmon were planted by CADFG, all the rest were illegally planted. Surprisingly no smallies. People have been putting smallies everywhere.....Prosser, Stampede, Boca, ....

Thanks for the info....smallmouth in Prosser, Stamped, and Boca.....WOW....i love smallmouth fishing....do you know if there is any size to the smallmouth in Prosser, Stamped, or Boca.

[flyfishnevada]

I was wanting to get up that way, but I think I will pass. Man if they could get that place worked out, it would be spectacular. Thanks for the report.

[jayclarkflyfishing]

Gene-
I have boated smallies up to the 5lb range at Prosser.Same with Stampede.Search out rocky shorelines or fish in front of the dam.

Jay

[1flyfisher]

They run a few pounds......, 5 pounder would be a big one. Almanor has good smallie fishing.



Thanks for the info....smallmouth in Prosser, Stamped, and Boca.....WOW....i love smallmouth fishing....do you know if there is any size to the smallmouth in Prosser, Stamped, or Boca.

[1flyfisher]

Its not like it once was. For one,,,,No more snails which really really sucks. Fall fishing used to be a real kick with the floating snails. It's hurting a bit. The sores all over the fish and these damn parasites make me sick. It will snap back IF the parasites die off. Hopefully the high water can clean that up. It is still ok though. Still a beautiful lake.
We'll see how the fish quality turns up, ends up this fall.
This spring and summer myself and the friends I fish with noticed a lack of larger holdovers around. Looks like they took another winter kill hit with the low water levels. Not the usual numbers we see and catch. Low water levels the last two years did some damage. Winter kill and summer kill have always been a problem for Cadfg trying to maintain fish populations and 2+ years of below average water levels hurt.
It'll come back.

CADFG can always add some fish but they don't stock snails.
I am sad about the snails and the parasites.



I was wanting to get up that way, but I think I will pass. Man if they could get that place worked out, it would be spectacular. Thanks for the report.

[michaeln]

No more snails which really really sucks. Fall fishing used to be a real kick with the floating snails.

Maybe it's a bit early to declare "no snails"? Isn't the snail thing normally something that happens in the fall, ie: September / October? In a normal year would you be seeing snails in mid-July?

[1flyfisher]

Snails used to be around all the time,,,it isn't just a fall thing. It has been a few YEARS now without anything remotely resembling snail populations. They have been in decline for about 6+ years. Less and less every year. I haven't seen even ONE snail anywhere at all. I haven't cruised the east shore lately so maybe someone has seen some over there. Snails are around every where (used to be) all year not just a fall thing. The thing about the so called "fall Snail hatch" in the fall was that in the fall the weed beds break up and the snails are floating off them and the fish eat them gobbling them up fattening up for winter.
usually you are seeing hundreds floating around spring summer fall and on the bottom in sizes from tiny to quite large.
There are no snails anywhere I can see. There was a small amount last summer remaining last summer in a cove I found some. I went and looked. Couldn't find a single one.
So if there aren't any snails....there are "no snails"
Whether they ever come back....who knows?



Maybe it's a bit early to declare "no snails"? Isn't the snail thing normally something that happens in the fall, ie: September / October? In a normal year would you be seeing snails in mid-July?

[FRSam]

I went out yesterday with the boat on the water at 6:30am trying to beat the heat. Had a good day and as Paul said there were fish "working" the shallows. 7:30am to 8:30am is when I saw the most activity while in Fungawi fishing toward the back on the north side.

Didn't see any damsel nymphs in the water but later in the day I noticed quite a few adults. I agree with Paul - I think the fish were coming up for midges but I took my fish on damsel nymphs targeting individual fish. The fish turned off about 8:30 or so and I headed up to Cow and Freedman.

I saw some dinkers off the Cow Creek point doing the aerial tail flips so I went over to Freedman and put ashore to let the dog run and check out the shallow coves over on the Grizzly Crk side.

I didn't see any fish working and no damsels in the water but I did find a nest with eggs in a patch of willows just off shore. I know there must be thousands of nests out there with all the birds but this is the first nest I've come across with eggs still in it.

So I walked back over to the Freedman side and saw a fish working just off shore and took him on the second cast. Nice fish just under 20 inches and pretty clean.

The water temps were high - surface temps were about 73 degrees but none of the fish I took had any trouble upon release.

All in all a good day - I stopped fishing around 1:00pm. Pretty much had the lake to myself which is always nice.

Pete

[1flyfisher]

Hey pete how are you?

The Grebes normally build their nests in the weed beds but this year the weed beds started so late(just starting to break through the surface) that they had to take alternative measures. A few weeks ago there were dozens of grebes off cow where they normally build their nests. When I got up there last sunday I noticed the grebes had vanished. As the weed beds weren't coming through the surface I wondered what the grebes would do????? If they would fly away to another lake or not lay their eggs this year. Later in the week I paddled over to grizzly arm and there they were dozens of grebes. They had built their nests in the flooded willows around grizzly arm instead of the weed beds off cow! I found like a half dozen nests, some nests had two eggs some had three. Nature adapts!:)

[FRSam]

Hey Paul...I thought it might belong to the Grebes as there was a pair just off shore keeping a close eye on me - there were four eggs all still intact. There were also quite a few broken egg shells along the shore line that looked like they had been dinned on by something.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/FeatherRiverSam/201007180906333.jpg

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/FeatherRiverSam/201007180906331.jpg

Those grebes are one of my favorites - that mating run/dance they do across the top of the water is the best - you just can't help but smile.

No, I didn't see any snails at all...Davis without snails is like a lake without water...hopefully ma nature can fix that problem...

What I don't understand is WHY...there was no problem with snails after the first treatment in 97' and now here we are after the second treatment with no snails. But you know there some snails after the second treatment - not many but some. I can remember seeing them on the shore line of the grizzly creek channel just last year. But I sure haven't seen any lately and I've looked.

Pete

[1flyfisher]

Wow 4 eggs!!! 2-3 is the usual. Those are mostly Western Grebes with some Clark's grebes. Yep there are plenty of nests like that. The seagulls will grab the eggs. I saw a seagull kill a baby goose (yellow plumage) 2 years ago. Snatched the goose right off the bank a few feet from the mom and flew to the other side of cow 50 feet up from where I was parked. The mama goose was going nuts and chased after the gull to my side of the bank but she got scared because I was there and stopped. I rushed over but the gull picked up the still alive baby goose and flew to the other side of cow and dropped it again, The gull was pecking it to death. I went to save it but it was too late.
I picked it up but it was dead. I left it for the gull.

The seagulls are catching the shit out of the crawfish right now in cow creek cove. I watched them dive down and pull up a few dozen the other evening. Right in front of my van. They fly to shore with them and eat the body and discard the claws. That is why there are tons of crawdad claws all over the shoreline. We all were wondering why the hell there was so many crawdad claws on the shoreline at cow. Then one evening I saw a gull dive into the water and come up with something. I put the binos on em and it was a crawdad. If you want to do some birding while at davis go to cow in the evening, crack a beer and sit and watch the seagulls. They do it a bit in the morning but mostly in the evening. Must have something to do with the angle of the light enabling them to see them better or perhaps the crawdads are doing something more active that enables the gulls to catch them more easily. They don't do it during the day much. The other night they were going crazy on em. Dozens were caught.

The lake might be sick but still some good birding. I had a bald eagle fly right over my head 100 feet up. Also saw it the next day on freeman point.


Hey Paul...I thought it might belong to the Grebes as there was a pair just off shore keeping a close eye on me - there were four eggs all still intact. There were also quite a few broken egg shells along the shore line that looked like they had been dinned on by something.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/FeatherRiverSam/201007180906333.jpg

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/FeatherRiverSam/201007180906331.jpg

Those grebes are one of my favorites - that mating run/dance they do across the top of the water is the best - you just can't help but smile.

No, I didn't see any snails at all...Davis without snails is like a lake without water...hopefully ma nature can fix that problem...

What I don't understand is WHY...there was no problem with snails after the first treatment in 97' and now here we are after the second treatment with no snails. But you know there some snails after the second treatment - not many but some. I can remember seeing them on the shore line of the grizzly creek channel just last year. But I sure haven't seen any lately and I've looked.

Pete

[1flyfisher]

Snails

After the first treatment in 97 there were definitely many snails for a few years (like 3-4, maybe 5?). They slowly started their decline after the first treatment. The ends of fugawees points always had tons of snails on the bottom. Jay and Glenn were always fixtures on those points and I would go rap with them and fish and see snails on the bottom there. Of course they were floating all over the lake too but those points held the tiny small juvenile ones on the bottom. The way the wind blows would always bunch them up right there. And very often the points are about from a few inches deep to 2 feet deep and that shallowness extends 50-100+ feet out into the lake and the points would catch them with a south/south west wind. About maybe 7/8 years ago they began their decline. That was about 3-4 years after the first rotenone treatment so that may have had a delayed effect on them.
Last year I saw a few remaining and hoped the high water would wash them back into the main body of the lake. sadly I can't find a single one. Something has killed them off. It has to be something to do with the water (rotenone???). God only knows what has caused it. I wonder what CADFG knows????:confused:

all I can figure is the rotenone had a delayed effect on them and the second rotenone 3 years ago was the nail in the coffin for them.

[FRSam]

I'll be damned...that's what's going on with the crawdad claws scattered along the shoreline. I was fishing the other day with my brother and his son on the north end of the lake and we were treated to a show where the osprey hits the water, picks up a fish and takes off for his nest only to be intercepted by a bald eagle mid-air. The eagle knocked the fish out of the ospreys talons and caught it mid-air and off he went. I've seen this a couple of times now - it's quite the show.

Yesterday I went down to the Eagle Point far cove with the snag just because I hadn't been down there in a while. A couple of osprey were nesting in the tree...
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/FeatherRiverSam/201007181044192.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/FeatherRiverSam/201007181044191.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/FeatherRiverSam/201007181044193.jpg

I also saw a pelican fly over head with a wad of fishing monofilament wrapped around his legs - unfortunately there wasn't anything I could do.

Fishing is always about the fishing...

Pete

[1flyfisher]

Yep, its the seagulls. If you are at davis in the evening again Go check it out (right there at cow) right before dark, starting around 7 pm like clock work and verify it because No body believes me. I noticed this a few years ago for the first time. I have seen em get them in 4-5+ deep water. I still have yet to figure out how they do it. I will bet anyone anything (case of beer) that doesn't believe me I will show them a seagull catch a crawdad.

I have seen bald eagles and ospreys go at it about a half dozen times. First time was on martis back in the day. LOL another screwed up lake I loved!!!!](*,) They were twirling and spinning around. This was when the osprey didn't even have a fish. They just go at it. Last year I watched a bald eagle dive bomb an osprey with a fish but it never got the fish. It would dive almost vertically so fast its feathers were rippling from the g's and making a noise like a kite sounds in the wind...if you know what I mean. But they didn't impact. I have never seen an impact or a fish steal yet. Too cool huh?

nice pics.



I'll be damned...that's what's going on with the crawdad claws scattered along the shoreline. I was fishing the other day with my brother and his son on the north end of the lake and we were treated to a show where the osprey hits the water, picks up a fish and takes off for his nest only to be intercepted by a bald eagle mid-air. The eagle knocked the fish out of the ospreys talons and caught it mid-air and off he went. I've seen this a couple of times now - it's quite the show.

Yesterday I went down to the Eagle Point far cove with the snag just because I hadn't been down there in a while. A couple of osprey were nesting in the tree...
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/FeatherRiverSam/201007181044192.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/FeatherRiverSam/201007181044191.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/FeatherRiverSam/201007181044193.jpg

I also saw a pelican fly over head with a wad of fishing monofilament wrapped around his legs - unfortunately there wasn't anything I could do.

Fishing is always about the fishing...

Pete

[Troutstalker55B]

Pete, Paul,

I found fish last August and Sept. that had Crawdads in their bellies and were looking for them in the shallows - I even C&R several on a Crawdad pattern #8 3xl hook.

As for the snails, in 2001 the FS and DWR lowered the lake at a rapid pace to fix the boat ramps and dredge Honker Cove. At the time there were hundreds of snails in the shallows and they were left high and dry on the bank when the lake dropped. Since then I have seen a steady decline until last year when they showed up in the northern lake. At one time the snail was king at Lake Davis and that was the only pattern I fished!

Only time will tell. I'm now waiting to see if the Kirby's Backswimmer hatch will come off, there can be a good game from first light until 9am or so in very skinny water. The takes are fierce!

Jon.

[1flyfisher]

There are now bazillions of crawdads in the lake. I see em swim away alot now while paddling about. I imagine all the dead fish (07 rotenone) that sank to the bottom have been a food feast for them and really upped their populations. I never saw tons of claws all over the cow creek area shoreline back in the 80's or 90's or after the first rotenone. And I never saw seagulls catching them before, up until a few years ago. Like right after the rotenone in 07. That would be 3 years and when I first saw the birds catching them and claws all over. Nonetheless I see no detriment to their currently large population. The fish will eat the shit out of them. At least they have that food source. Me....I'd rather have the snails around for them. Better yet both.

You have a power boat and get around. Have you been over to the east shore lately? Any snails there? I haven't seen a single one. WTF! So no more crunchy bellies? That sucks. We gotta have the crunchy bellies again. Snails were the major food source to fatten up fish before winter to help them survive the harsh winters in davis lake. They have had it hard enough with population survivals in davis's entire past even with the snails. Now the fish lose that high protein, high energy food source to store up energy for winter survival. Not good.

We (you and I) have theorized on this snail decline before. I can see lowering the water levels having a temporary impact on the snail population. But why would it have an ongoing effect and result in a population decline over a period of many years? Let's say lowering the water kills 50% or even 80% or 99.9 % of the snail population. There are still enough survivors to restore the population. The population would snap back over time not continue to decline. After 2001 there were still many snails around scattered about the lake. All it takes are a handful, they breed like rabbits,,,,eeerrr I mean snails....Last year I still saw a few snails alive. Now I see none. I have raised/had snails in all of my aquariums before. Some of the Same snails as where in davis. Ramshorns, pond snails, apple snails etc. They reproduce like crazy. All it takes are a few and boom you have tons more. A good example of how quickly snails can reproduce are the problems with invasive species of snails the bad snails like the New Zealand Mud snails invading ca waters. Easy massive population growth from just a handful. Aquarists, koi ponders always have had to deal with the rapid population explosions of unwanted snails. There aren't many ways to get rid of them. About the only sure fire method is poison.http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Control_reproduction_of_fresh_water_snails http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/breeding/Brown_Snails.html GOOD Snails are HIGHLY important to davis. They eat decaying plant and animal matter which in turn reduces ammonia levels and spikes. Davis as we all are aware has massive plant growth. When that decays it increases ammonia and c02 levels and reduces oxygen levels. The snails used to eat all the dead weeds throughout the winter and reduced toxic spikes from the decaying plant matter. They eat dead animal stuff too and clean the water in various ways. Very important to maintaining water quality. I have to believe that it is some environmental factor as far as the water quality. Seems like it has to be something due to the water. Low water levels producing higher ammonia levels? Higher alkalinity? Lower oxygen levels? How about the rotenone having a delayed effect? Poisonings and chemical exposure can do that. They can slowly kill off life. Not everything dies immediately from chemical/poison exposure. (((((I am just speculating here))))) because I have no hard facts,,,,,just guessing and theorizing. BUT FACT is something has killed off the snails. What it is,,,,I do not know??????? Likely the rotenone slowly over time. That's my theory anyway.


Cadfg would have to take snail samples(LOL if they could find any!), and water quality tests and conduct an indepth study to figure it out. If they actually cared. Aren't they responsible for maintaining the wildlife around and in davis lake post rotenone treatment? I mean we are having an entire species and major food source for a trophy trout lake disappear. Arguably the major food source for davis lake. That was what davis was about, snails and damsels. Fat crunchy trout bellies packed with snails each fall. Snails and a kick ass damsel hatch(which has dramatically declined). Aren't they liable for any damage to the wildlife and area and lake for using rotenone? Ask bob about that he would surely know.

There are still plenty of backswimmers, water boatmen, beetles etc in the lake. I was looking at them the other day.

I am waiting to see if the motorboat caddis hatch comes off.



You know what. I should have thought of this before. I will call around to some aquarists, (I'm an X aquarist and far from an expert on water quality or snails) these folks are highly knowledgeable about water quality and maintaining water quality, and what could kill snails in a lake and their knowledge certainly rivals biologists and other professionals in this area that I don't have access to.



Pete, Paul,

I found fish last August and Sept. that had Crawdads in their bellies and were looking for them in the shallows - I even C&R several on a Crawdad pattern #8 3xl hook.

As for the snails, in 2001 the FS and DWR lowered the lake at a rapid pace to fix the boat ramps and dredge Honker Cove. At the time there were hundreds of snails in the shallows and they were left high and dry on the bank when the lake dropped. Since then I have seen a steady decline until last year when they showed up in the northern lake. At one time the snail was king at Lake Davis and that was the only pattern I fished!

Only time will tell. I'm now waiting to see if the Kirby's Backswimmer hatch will come off, there can be a good game from first light until 9am or so in very skinny water. The takes are fierce!

Jon.

[bigfly]

Please don't give those cods that transplant Smallies any ideas.
It would be the final straw for Davis. Picture a third treatment.
They are hoovering the trout fry in Prosser, Boca, Stampeed, and Tahoe lakes.
Personally I think 2-3 bass tournements a year, with a fish fry afterwards, is a great idea, but not enough to offset the damage done.
Not to one up on Jay, but I've landed a couple 6+Lbs. Been broken off by a few bigger fish as well.
I use an 8wt XP with a Rio 300gr. line. to strip a #4 Rainbow/Redsides minnow.
Bertha Bass loves little fish.

Jim

[1flyfisher]

We aren't giving anyone any ideas, we are just talking about all the illegal fish that ended up in davis and elsewhere. People do that all the time already that's how the dozens of different types of fish ended up in davis and smallies end up every where. Those skid marks that do that aren't going to need ideas from a flyfishing message board discussion that mentions, "surprisingly smallies have never ended up in davis" or folks talking about all the illegal fish that have been dumped in there and elsewhere.....sadly folks that do that already move fish all over screwing up all sorts of fisheries. They don't care.

I use a small minnow pattern to represent the japanese pond smelt on almanor.

I have to admit smallies are fun to catch and eat......smallies are a great fish, but i also don't want to see people moving them around. Or anything else for that matter.....especially you know what,,,,,which still is in lakes in NV.





Please don't give those cods that transplant Smallies any ideas.
It would be the final straw for Davis. Picture a third treatment.
They are hoovering the trout fry in Prosser, Boca, Stampeed, and Tahoe lakes.
Personally I think 2-3 bass tournements a year, with a fish fry afterwards, is a great idea, but not enough to offset the damage done.
Not to one up on Jay, but I've landed a couple 6+Lbs. Been broken off by a few bigger fish as well.
I use an 8wt XP with a Rio 300gr. line. to strip a #4 Rainbow/Redsides minnow.
Bertha Bass loves little fish.

Jim

[Troutstalker55B]

Paul,

You make some really good points and as I take all this in I feel it is a combination of factors, some we know about and some not. I have not seen a single snail since last fall, and even then they were not the robust size snails we are used to seeing. Remember how back in the day the wind would come in and most anglers called it a day, and we would anchor up in a bay, and watch the floating snails get gorged on by big rainbows. All it took was a floating line and a simple Jay Fair snail, and just let your fly soak out in the waves with very little movement - You just had to keep a tight leash. Those were some good times!

Dad has been sending DFG formal complaints on this issue and many others and they are not listening at this time - I think they are fed up with the lake and all the $ that has been dumped into it. Maybe it's time we treat Lake Davis like Eagle - Close it down Dec. 31st to the end of May, reduce the daily limit and x number in possesion, and no use of livewells, ect. I'm all for it but that is just my personal opinion.

Let me know what you find out about the snails.........

Jon.

[1flyfisher]

LOL the good ole days. Like you said in your message the other day. "We may be looking back years from now and saying ...remember the good ole days at lake davis"
Hell I hope that's not the case.

Thing I liked about the snails besides fattening the crap out of the fish was in the fall when they float around it was the only food source(almost/you know what I mean) around and it got the fish to rise, move around and hunt and cruise in the shallows. A Snail hatch.

yeah the ones I saw last fall were quite small.

Yes I agree with you 100% on the dfg being fed up with davis. they have had problems from the very beginning when the lake was first filled with maintaining fish populations and all sorts of issues besides the pike.

good for your dad! he is always in the lead on shit like this. he's the man!!!
if he needs me and other folks to sign a letter I know i would be happy too. It is harder for them to say nothing to a larger group. Tell your dad I say thanks for the effort and work and I am right with him and will help in any way I can.....sucks so badthe fish are covered with parasites and now there are no more snails......that does not bode well for the future of the fishery.

i agree a 2 fish limit 4 to take home is plenty....just like eagle.

talk to you later


Paul,

You make some really good points and as I take all this in I feel it is a combination of factors, some we know about and some not. I have not seen a single snail since last fall, and even then they were not the robust size snails we are used to seeing. Remember how back in the day the wind would come in and most anglers called it a day, and we would anchor up in a bay, and watch the floating snails get gorged on by big rainbows. All it took was a floating line and a simple Jay Fair snail, and just let your fly soak out in the waves with very little movement - You just had to keep a tight leash. Those were some good times!

Dad has been sending DFG formal complaints on this issue and many others and they are not listening at this time - I think they are fed up with the lake and all the $ that has been dumped into it. Maybe it's time we treat Lake Davis like Eagle - Close it down Dec. 31st to the end of May, reduce the daily limit and x number in possesion, and no use of livewells, ect. I'm all for it but that is just my personal opinion.

Let me know what you find out about the snails.........

Jon.

[FRSam]

Hey Jon / Paul...I fished the lake this morning and had a good morning over at Fungawi. The fish were working again and I took them on a flash back damsel nymph tied on a Tiemco #14 2457. I lost count but I'm sure it was easily over 10 fish within a hours time primarily along the shore line. Between 7:30 and 8:30 was the magic hour. The biggest was probably around 18" which isn't great but I did notice the bigger fish were clean for the most part.

I went up to Freedman and Cow after and there were still some fish working there - a couple of grabs but none to hand. I was off the water by 10:00am. Surface water temps on the way in were 74 degrees - ouch. None of the fish I took seemed to have any problem with recovery upon release.

Beautiful morning...Fungawi was flat - no wind -with fish working - it just doesn't get much better.

Regarding the snails I wonder if the increase in the population of crawdads hasn't had an effect on the snails? I had a tank here I was keeping with Lake Davis bugs and I put in a couple of small crawdads and within days they'd completely cleaned out the tank. I no longer have the tank set up, as I believe it's illegal, but I can't remember if I had any snails in there but I think I did. Maybe it's a population swing all the dead fish equals tons of crawdads no more dead fish the crawdads go after the snails - just a thought.

And what's going on with the west side road? It was great and now they've covered it with gravel enough to create that washboard effect - I was doing 15 miles an hour on the way out this morning and still getting bumped around.

I'll keep an eye out for you on the lake,

Pete

[michaeln]

I mentioned earlier in this thread that I had emailed DFG about the copepod problem. They sent me a form letter response, exactly the same one they sent to a guy on the North American Fly Fishing board a couple months ago:


Dear Mr. Nelson,

Thank you for contacting us concerning the copepods or "fish lice" on
the trout at Lake Davis.

We are aware of the situation at Lake Davis. We examined a number of
trout from Lake Davis last year to confirm the identity the organisms
being seen. We found light to heavy numbers of copepods on the fish.
The majority of the fish lice we observed were of the genus Salmincola.
There may be a few of the genus Lernaea as well. Common names for these
copepods are “anchor worm, fish maggot” etc. The organisms found on
these particular fish are commonly found in waters throughout the
western United States. This organism usually does not affect fish
health, though its appearance on fish can be unattractive. The presence
of this organism on fish does not render the fish unfit for human
consumption. It is not an internal parasite, but rather infects the
gills, fins and flanks of susceptible species of fish. There are no
practical treatment options available for lakes and reservoirs.

The increased numbers of these organisms being seen this year is most
likely due the warming of the water and the high number of fish planted
into Lake Davis. The organisms were already in Lake Davis. When Fish
and Game planted the large number of trout into the lake we provided a
large number of hosts for the parasite to live on and multiply from.
The copepod numbers will decline with cooling water temperatures and
decreasing fish numbers.

Please feel free to contact me if you have any other questions.

Amber

Amber S. Rossi
District Fisheries Biologist: Plumas/Sierra County
California Department of Fish and Game
P.O. Box 419
Quincy, CA 95971
Phone (530) 283-6864
Cell (530) 520-4753
Fax (530) 283-2938
arossi@dfg.ca.gov

[michaeln]

In other words "We have no intention of doing anything but sitting on our hands and watching the situation go to hell".

[1flyfisher]

They say they believe it will go away in time. I hope they are right and it happens soon.



In other words "We have no intention of doing anything but sitting on our hands and watching the situation go to hell".

[1flyfisher]

Hey Jon / Paul...I fished the lake this morning and had a good morning over at Fungawi. The fish were working again and I took them on a flash back damsel nymph tied on a Tiemco #14 2457. I lost count but I'm sure it was easily over 10 fish within a hours time primarily along the shore line. Between 7:30 and 8:30 was the magic hour. The biggest was probably around 18" which isn't great but I did notice the bigger fish were clean for the most part.

I went up to Freedman and Cow after and there were still some fish working there - a couple of grabs but none to hand. I was off the water by 10:00am. Surface water temps on the way in were 74 degrees - ouch. None of the fish I took seemed to have any problem with recovery upon release.

Beautiful morning...Fungawi was flat - no wind -with fish working - it just doesn't get much better.

Nice! yeah this time of year with these conditions they quit early. Seemed like every day when I was there, there was a breeze early and they instantly quit.

Regarding the snails I wonder if the increase in the population of crawdads hasn't had an effect on the snails? I had a tank here I was keeping with Lake Davis bugs and I put in a couple of small crawdads and within days they'd completely cleaned out the tank. I no longer have the tank set up, as I believe it's illegal, but I can't remember if I had any snails in there but I think I did. Maybe it's a population swing all the dead fish equals tons of crawdads no more dead fish the crawdads go after the snails - just a thought.

That could be possible also. Until CADFG does a study we are all just speculating. But nothing wrong with that since we aren't getting any answers from them on the snails. I went Bass fishing at Casitas lake and brought home some crawdads. Threw them into one of my tanks. In about 2 seconds they were tearing into all my $$$ tropical fish. :mad:

And what's going on with the west side road? It was great and now they've covered it with gravel enough to create that washboard effect - I was doing 15 miles an hour on the way out this morning and still getting bumped around.

The road was fine last week. Pretty smooth but loads of gravel on it in places.

I'll keep an eye out for you on the lake,

I think I am done for now. The short window of opportunity I found is too little fishing time for me to go. But then again....;)

[1flyfisher]

I sent off this letter to cadfg to see if they are investigating the snail die off in davis lake and what they may have found out about it or what they are doing about it. I will post their response information when I receive it.


July 21, 2010

Amber S. Rossi
District Fisheries Biologist: Plumas/Sierra County
California Department of Fish and Game
P.O. Box 419
Quincy, CA 95971
Phone (530) 283-6864


Dear Amber Rossi,

I am writing to you as one of many concerned Lake Davis fly-fishermen regarding what appears to be the complete die off of the entire snail population in Lake Davis. Myself and others have noticed a steady yearly decline over the last 10+ or so years following the first rotenone treatment in 1997. Each year fewer and fewer snails could be found. Now they are nowhere to be found anywhere in the lake. Historically snails could easily be found floating in the water column from spring through the summer into fall any day of the fishing season. The population of snails was always quite massive as they are extremely prolific breeders. The snails provided an extremely important food source for the trout population especially in the fall prior to winter ice over when floating snails were eagerly eaten by hungry trout fattening themselves for winter survival. Aside from being a major food source for trout they also perform a variety of important functions such as cleaning the lake of dying plant and animal matter which in turn dramatically improves water quality.

Now they are nowhere to be found. Not a single one. I have looked all over the entire lake this year over a course of 18 days of fishing and have not been able to find a single snail of any type. If they are present they are not difficult to find as they regularly float to the surface and can be found in the water column, washed up along the many shallow points, clinging to weed beds, or floating on the surface all over the entire lake. Over the past many decades of flyfishing Lake Davis I would always see hundreds every day. I have spoken to dozens of other fly-fishermen this season and no one has been able to find or collect a single one. Last season there was a small remaining population in a cove across from Mosquito Slough. That last remaining population of snails are also now gone.

Snails have always existed in the area creeks and in Lake Davis and they are an extremely vital part of the fishery and now part of that environment is dying off if it hasn't entirely already died off. Snails dying off and the trout covered with various parasites seems to indicate a very serious problem with the lakes water quality.

Are any studies being conducted to determine why they are dying/died off?
I would like to know exactly what cadfg has been doing to determine why this important trout food source has died off?
I would also like to know what cadfg is doing to reestablish the snail population?

Sincerely,


A Concerned Lake Davis Fly Fisherman

[Terry Imai]

Went to Davis on July 23 after reading a decent report on the Reno Flyshop report (bad idea). Got there first thing in the a.m. and only saw two tubes on Jenkins (another bad omen). Talked with a guy getting out and he was bummed about the fishing and high water temp. I fished for several hours and checked out several spots but with the water temps around 74 fahr. and no bug activity, I knew I was wasting my time. Davis could be a trophy fly fishery and the town of Portola wouldn't look like a ghost town if they knew how to cater to the flyfishermen rather than the bait guys. It just seems that the flyfishermen will spend a few dollars in the town rather than the bait guys just bring their food and probably only spend their money on liquor if they run out. Davis is one my favorite lakes but it's too bad it has been given the short end of the stick.