Tipping again

[JohnS]

On Sat I'm going on my first guided trip. There are two of us for the one guide. If the trip costs $375, what is the usual amount EACH person should tip for good service?

From what I read, $40/person for a total of $80 is the going rate for good service. Maybe $100 for excellent service?

Thanks for the advice
JohnS

[El Rey]

John, that sounds about right. An $80 tip, total, for a $375 trip is a little more than 20%. That's customary for a good trip. If, however, the guide is rowing and covering a lot of water repeatedly, i.e., rowing back upstream, and if he gives excellent service and is a good teacher, then the $100 might be appropriate--regardless of how many fish you catch. It's his effort and service that is rewarded, not the numbers of fish.

However, if he's lackadaisical, arrogant, or just indifferent, then a lesser amount is in order. But, I've never encountered such a guide.

BTW, where are you going? If it's Redding, bring lots of water and sunscreen.

Enjoy,
El Rey

[Frank R. Pisciotta]

IMO, El Rey offers some sage advice relative to tipping guides when he comments that "...effort and service...is rewarded, not the numbers of fish". Having guided for an extended period where numbers are hard to come by; I fully agree. My tag-line on my very first brochure was "A Total Experience"

Frank R. Pisciotta

[JohnS]

El Rey and Frank,

Thank you for your advice. I understand why you tip on service and not the number of fish caught (any guide for me would go broke if that were true!!!)

El Rey

I believe we're wading the Upper Sac in the am and floating the afternoon. I will carry sunscreen and water.

I'll report on Monday

JohnS :fish:

[joshfish]

have a fun trip john. i hear the upper and lower sac are both fishing very good. im going to try and get out and fish the upper either tomorrow after work or saturday eve.

[amoeba]

Why all this recent talk about "tipping" as if it was some part of the trip cost, and is deserving for some average level of service ("good")? It isn't. $375 is the cost of the trip. A guide is not a restaurant worker. He doesn't charge you, or pay himself(i.e., minimum wage or less), like a restaurant worker. Accordingly, there are no percentages like a restaurant worker. It is not 5%, or 10%, or 20%, or any such percent. The guide should do his job for the $375.

If you feel like tipping, do so in any amount you feel is appropriate. Guides that scowl and shrug at clients' $20 tips should just give them back, and consider moving on to another line of work.

I advise that you tip if it is truely deserved, and that means much better than "good" or "average" service. Good service is worth $375, not more.

[DFrink]

I hate to keep this thread going, again. But I have to agree with amoeba. I'm a surveyor, if I survey your property I don't expect a tip. The cost is figured when I make a bid for the work. For those who set there own price points, i.e. guides, the price should set a point that is fair for the guide to make a living and the guest to not have to worry about how much they have to pay in "hidden" costs. Otherwise we should all be tippng anyone who provides a service. Good service should be rewarded with return business, not tips. Here we go again.

Dan


Why all this recent talk about "tipping" as if it was some part of the trip cost, and is deserving for some average level of service ("good")? It isn't. $375 is the cost of the trip. A guide is not a restaurant worker. He doesn't charge you, or pay himself(i.e., minimum wage or less), like a restaurant worker. Accordingly, there are no percentages like a restaurant worker. It is not 5%, or 10%, or 20%, or any such percent. The guide should do his job for the $375.

If you feel like tipping, do so in any amount you feel is appropriate. Guides that scowl and shrug at clients' $20 tips should just give them back, and consider moving on to another line of work.

I advise that you tip if it is truely deserved, and that means much better than "good" or "average" service. Good service is worth $375, not more.

[Fats]

If the guide is getting the full $375 that would be one thing... but when I book a guide out of a shop, the shop gets their cut. My guide isn't getting the full $375. It is a service position... if the guide is working his butt off, he gets tipped and tipped out well. When I book with him a multiple times, I really want to be treated well... I don't go with guides very often so when I do, I like to be spoiled (I really like my wife to be spoiled... I'll fend for myself)

JMHO!

[Rick J]

I generally disagree with the not tipping statements posted - this happens to be a form of labor that traditionally has included tips - not to say that you have to tip. I was a part time guide for over 10 years and I would say the majority of my clients did tip. When you book trips in the Caribbean and Mexico - it seems that tipping is part of the culture.

I rarely use guides but I do for specific trips targeting steelhead and have been using the guys from Speywater - Scott, Mike and Ed. I consider them friends as well as guides and I have always tipped them in the neighborhood of 20% ( and that is 20% per boat - so if it cost $500 I tip them $50 and my partner tips them $50). When going on overnight float trips I also tip the camp folks maybe half or so of what I tip the guides (and that is for each camp person) - so it is a significant expense and one I just include in my expenses when planning a trip. Same holds in the Yucatan - I tip not only the guide but the folks that make it all come together back at camp including the cook and maids

I would consider not tipping a guide if I got one that was a jerk and really did not focus on the client - but so far I have been lucky in all my trips from the Yucatan to steelheading

[Frank R. Pisciotta]

I've followed the threads on tipping....and this is by all means not an attempt to justify or persuade why a client should tip....that is totally up to the client.

I'd like to make comments relative to shop guides vs independent guides (such as myself). People have mentioned (such as Fats above) that the shop guide gets $$$ taken off the top and does not receive the full fee paid the shop or outfitter...so therefore a tip is considered & merited. That is true.

It is a false assumption that an independent guide receives the full amount of the fee he/she receives when you consider they have operational expenses that a shop or outfitter guide may not; both fixed and variable. Such expenses, whether pro-rated or actual daily costs (such as flies, lunches, leaders...assuming there is no charge and part of the fee) are: liability insurance, fees paid to the USFS or other agencies, advertising, business phone, website expenses, shows, wear & tear on wading gear that has to be replaced (at least one broken rod per year), to mention a few.

Again, tipping is totally up to the client. I just want to clarify that independents do have expenses that "stabled" guides may not. Very possibly equal to the amount of the shop guide's fee deduction. As to fee deduction, I'm aware of as low as 20% and high as 40%. Personally I feel the high % may be pushing the envelop...but who am I say since I don't run a shop or am an outfitter.

Frank R. Pisciotta

[Darian]

It seems that a clarification is needed here. I don't dispute that an independent guide has all of the expenses Frank lists and probably more that he hasn't listed. 8-)

A "shop guide" may not incur the same direct expenses as an independent but must pay for the same through the shop in the form of the mentioned deduction(s). In the case of a "shop guide", there may be an employee relationship that requires the additional withholding/payment of payroll taxes by the shop, depending on how the relationship with the shop is structured. Ultimately, price setting for each type of operation should be determined by the actual expense of operation and a reasonable profit for each type of ownership. Otherwise, the responsible entity is headed for bankruptcy. :nod:

Lotsa stuff to consider here. 8-)