Upper Sunrise proposed Closure

[John C Peterson]

Sac County Regional Parks is proposing closing vehicular access to the beach at Upper Sunrise. This is the only beach where you can park your car in view when fishing or casting. The problem stems from vehicular access crosses the bike trail where cars, bikers & walkers need to be more aware/observe the posted stop sign. This beach area is unique for fishing, casting, boat launching/retrieval, etc. Kiene's had a large casting class at this location last Saturday. It has very favorable access to 1/4 mile of runs for shad fishing which will start in a couple of weeks. The meeting is scheduled at: Sac County Parks, 4200 Temescal St., Fair Oaks, CA on May 12, 2010. I have talked to Chief Ranger Steve Flannery on 916-876-5405 & he is very personable. His email is: flannerys@saccounty.net (could be FlanneryS@saccounty.net). I suggest that you either attend the meeting , call or email to express your interest in this closure.
..........John Peterson...........

[590Mike]

You can count on me. I'm also calling the board members.

[Charlie Gonzales]

It was slated to be closed as of last year due to "budget" cuts so I was surprised to see it open at all. You can be sure I will be present! Any idea what time the meeting will be? Thanks for the heads up John.

[John C Peterson]

Sorry, the meeting is 6pm. Yes, they do close this beach during the salmon spawning closure October thru December due to poaching. My interest in keeping this beach open is because unique as there are no other American River County Parks where you can park your car in view of where you fish (access at the base of Natomas Damn is State). I feel that there is less chance of someone breaking into my car, keying it, etc. This particluar beach is better than a 1/4 mile long with excellent access to runs holding shad, stripers, steelhead & salmon runs. A lot of guides either put in or take out at this location. If auto access is denied there isn't any parking in close proximity to this beach & one would have to park along the road. I found Chief Ranger Steve Flannerey very open to ideas when talking to him on the phone. I am a big supporter of the parks along the American river & their caretakers. I do understand budget constraints & sympathize with the hard choices that the park rangers have to make. I'm hopeful there is a way that we maintain auto access to the beach.

[Mrs.Finsallaround]

Did anyone attend this meeting? Anybody take any notes?

[Bryan Morgan]

The County does not want to keep it open because it is a liability to patrol since it dangerously crosses the bike trail. Bottom line is the County doesn't want to be responsible.
They also claim it was a temporary boat launch until the new Sunrise launch was completed. It's been "temporary" for 10 years that I can remember.
Also, we're paying $50 a year to park and fish.......why don't cyclists and people on foot have to pay to use the parkway?

[OceanSunfish]

Also, we're paying $50 a year to park and fish.......why don't cyclists and people on foot have to pay to use the parkway?

I agree. Many parks are run exactly like this..... I always believe that if payment were necessary for access, it would help eliminate some of the "riff-raff" or criminal element to some degree. It's a use-tax, but users would appreciate increased security and overall cleanliness.....

It's sad that we have to resort to this level, but it's a sign of the times with regards to our decaying society and ovearll inability to provide "FREE" handouts any longer.....

[Darian]

I pay for an annual park pass for myself and my boat/trailer. Also, use the bike trails, etc.

Some of the riff-raff mentioned are summer time rafters, some homeless (but they have advocates now). I'm sure many of them use the trash cans bathroom facilities placed along the river but most throw their beer bottles/cans over the side where ever they are at the moment.

Since there's very little presence from park rangers (almost none at the toll booths), I wonder how many people/users don't or would bother paying :question: Also, many major/minor access points aren't regulated at all. How about Glen Hall Park, Sara Park or the newer park at the end of 28th Street :question:

I guess enforcement wouldn't be as easy as we imagine. :confused:

[590Mike]

Robin I wasn't able to attend but I did talk to someone who was there. Here the condensed version, The issue is the 3 auto/cycle accidents at the intersection.The county employee I talked to "mentioned" that all 3 incidents "seemed" cyclist responsible. So closing the access road would be one of the solutions as no one has offered a viable solution to slow the cyclists to a reasonable speed.

I talked to 2 District 5 candidates, they both know board members and are going to make a phone call to voice the reasons for not closing the access road.One is an increase in crime.I can't imagine how many break ins would happen just in the first week, If anyone want's their voice heard the need to call the Fair Oaks Park and Rec. Dept.

[Scott V]

One of the main issues with the cyclists is that where we have a stop sign, they do not. I have heard plenty of people say that the cyclists blast through the stop sign, but the fact is they do not have a stop sign. To be fair they need to put stop signs at the road crossing for the cyclist as well.

I am not referring to anyone on this board about my comment.

[Terry Thomas]

Scott, they DO have stop signs for the bikers! It is rare that I see the cyclists observe the signs, but they are there. At the access in question, there are signs in all four directions. It can be a hazardous situation since the bike trail curves there and vehicles are coming out from the river between two dredger tailings. If the agency follows their thought process, the lower Sunrise area could also come into question since the bike trail crosses the road twice down there. What's next; the Rosmore access? The bottom line, if everyone observed the laws and stopped for the signs, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
T.

[Darian]

During the period surrounding the AmGen Tour or Tour de France, many of the riders on the bike trail routinely ride well faster than is legally allowed. Those guys are cookin'.... :eek: I can see how a cyclist would run into a vehicle at a crossing. The faster cyclists sometimes ride with their head lowered making it difficult to see ahead. For these guys, stop signs would not be much of a deterrent. I stopped riding on weekends a long time ago due to over crowding. :nod:

Closure seems a bit drastic, tho. Aren't there several places along the river where vehicle access crosses the bike trail :?: Harrington access, Lower Sunrise and El Manto are a few that come to mind. Any mention of problems with them :?:

At any rate, I can see why the park rangers don't want to encourage traffic across the trail. Many users (all types) can be jerks. :nod:

[590Mike]

I don't about anyone else but I really don't want to park my vehicle that far away on the parkway because of vandalism. The District has cut staff to 4 rangers. The best way to keep the access open is call the Fair Oaks Park and rec dept and let them know that closure is not tha answer and will only lead to more problems.

[Darian]

I thought the river parkway below Nimbus Dam was controlled by the County of Sacramento.... That's who issues access permits.... :confused: If that's the case, the people to call would be the County Parks & Rec Dept. and the board of Supervisors.

[Scott V]

Terry you are correct and I was incorrect. I went by at lunch today to observe the traffic and noticed that not a single bicycle stopped or even slowed down at the stop signs. And worse they do not stop or slow down while a vehicle is stopped at the stop sign.

[590Mike]

I don't know why its through FO Parks I'll call and get some contact info

[OceanSunfish]

Scott, they DO have stop signs for the bikers! It is rare that I see the cyclists observe the signs, but they are there. At the access in question, there are signs in all four directions. It can be a hazardous situation since the bike trail curves there and vehicles are coming out from the river between two dredger tailings. If the agency follows their thought process, the lower Sunrise area could also come into question since the bike trail crosses the road twice down there. What's next; the Rosmore access? The bottom line, if everyone observed the laws and stopped for the signs, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
T.

OMG!! Asking people to simply use common sense, take responsibility and chose to do the right thing?!?!?!?!

I know, I know...... cheap shot towards a well intended post. It's just sad, nevertheless.

[gene goss]

I lived in the Fair Oaks Village for 25 years......and i been fly fishing the American River.....upper sunrise gravel bar....for over 30 years....also i been riding the american river bike trail for 20 years....with the good weather i ride this part of the trail 5-6 times a week....and yes i ride very fast, and BLAST throught all the stop signs on the bike trail....BUT a bike rider does not want to run into a car.....a lot of riders are cleat into the pedals.....so when a rider stops they have to un-cleat from the pedal....to get started pedaling again is difficult, you have to clip into the pedal while it is going around....the bike is wobbling around....a lot of times you are looking at the pedal instead of were you are going.....the metal posts in the center of the bike trail where the bike trail crosses the road....makes a narrow opering to wobble through one on each side of the road....stopping and starting again is the biggest fear of a bike ride thats clip-in.....maybe move the metal poles back 50ft. from the cross road and a very small speed bump at the stop sign could help....i will always give the bike rider all the space and time at a stop sign....because it could be your kids out there learning how to ride on our bike trail.

[Darian]

Gene,.... I'm sympathetic about cyclists not wanting to slow down or stop while on the bike trail but the reality is that cyclists are not the only users out there. Also, each group of users thinks that they have priority over the others. Like you, I ride the trail but do not cleat into the pedals or use a clip strap. I've found that riding while trying to avoid cars/trucks crossing the trail, runners and walkers using the center of the trail instead of the shoulders where they're required to be and absent minded fisherman crossing the trail can be exciting to say the least. I've just gotta be able to slow/stop and resume riding on demand to be safe.

Side vision for drivers of motor vehicles crossing the bike trail isn't very good. Cyclists need to be aware of that and pay attention. Cyclists have to learn where crossings are located and share the responsibility for safety in those areas....

Commencing with the AmGen Tour and for the rest of the summer, the bike trail is going to be filled with cyclists who want to ride fast and draft like the pros. Not a very safe environment.... :confused:

[Mike O]

Gene,
In part, you write
snip
and yes i ride very fast, and BLAST throught all the stop signs on the bike trail....
IF you BLAST through the stops, then your problem is you are breaking the law...why should we change it?

BUT a bike rider does not want to run into a car.....a lot of riders are cleat into the pedals.....so when a rider stops they have to un-cleat from the pedal....to get started pedaling again is difficult, you have to clip into the pedal while it is going around....the bike is wobbling around....a lot of times you are looking at the pedal instead of were you are going.....
IF you don't want to run into a car...DON'T. I am sorry it takes you so long to cleat or uncleat or whatever...you still need to stop. Why do we need to change the law? If you can't watch where you are going, then find another way to ride, as this is dangerous behavior.

snip

stopping and starting again is the biggest fear of a bike ride thats clip-in
I would think that a bigger fear would be being hit by a car...which could be avoided easier without clips/cleats

maybe move the metal poles back 50ft. from the cross road and a very small speed bump at the stop sign could help
Moving the poles may help, but if you were gonna BLAST a stop sign, a little speed bump and pole isn't gonna help. Maybe a parking lot sized speed bump...they will stop if it will kill those $300 rims they are using.

....i will always give the bike rider all the space and time at a stop sign.
Not me. I give them their right of way. I become a hazard if I defer my right of way to others constantly. See CA Vehicle Code §21200-21212 and §21800 to 21809. I expect them to give me my right of way, but I never demand it.

...because it could be your kids out there learning how to ride on our bike trail.
I have taught my kids that they don't always get to go first. I also teach them that the law applies to them as well as others.


What it boils down to is this. Why should we give up the last access relatively safe from tweakers, especially in this time of reduced official vigilance, because others break the law?

[Mrs.Finsallaround]

This post is getting a little out-of-hand and quite ridiculous. All I asked was for any results of the actual meeting from those who actually attended. Thank you to those that replied meaningfully.

Blasting highly respected BB members is completely uncalled for. Thank you to those that kept their posts civil.

[Mike O]

I apologize if I was blasting Gene. Not what I was trying to do. I do, as a Driver Ed Teacher, think that we should all share the road, and feel that closing access to some to benefit others, when we can all coexist, is not in the spirit of fairness.

[gene goss]

Its ok Robin....i have broad shoulder....when i posted my reply i knew that i would get some heat from it....i guess i should have went to the meeting that night to see if i could help in keeping the road open.

Darian....Your right about the side vision....if the brush and the trees were trimed back then the people using the trail could see the cars....and the cars could see the people using the bike trail.

Maodiver....You are also right....i'm breaking the law also....a speed bump would slow the people down for the crossing if they have to stop for a car.

These are some good ideals for keeping the road open.....so how can we pass them on???????

[OceanSunfish]

My take is that the area in question is a multi use facility, therefore, nobody should expect a full blown "blue ribbon" outing, but rather a 'mid week' experience of our passion..... For example, cyclists should have expectations of a more relaxed 'unclipped' ride to avoid accidents. As anglers, we've come to expect unusual people while fishing for shad in the early evening HEAT.....

I remember a wreck I experienced while on my road bike while I was still living in the bay area..... There is a popular trail that runs along Los Gatos Creek that is filled with walkers, runners, joggers, bike riders, etc. I was descending down a slope with the creek to my left and walkers spread out wide along the path; none paying attention to others..... I had a small narrow chute to run through along the rock filled edge, and unfortunately, it was a chute filled by a swarm of bugs enjoying a warm evening.... I took 'em in the eyes and was blinded, then proceeded to run into the rock filled rut do a cartwheel with the dent in my helmet to prove it too. Needless to say, I don't have that road bike any longer... Later, I converted to full mountain bike with big fat wheels and NO clip on pedals!

I had no business immitating Lance Armstrong on a multi use trail....... Good thing it was only bugs and not a car...... I was also 20 years younger at the time so I was still able to walk away quite healthy and even had a "fan" come up and tell me how spectacular I looked! sheesh.

Multi use trail... expect the unexpected.