Got to Love those Mountain Streams

[bclem81]

So had 2 close friends that wanted me to take them on a river or two, so to the LT and Big T we went. But ofcourse I couldnt pass up fishing them as well, due to tying up a new streamer that I needed to try out. So Paul aka djwatts, myself and my good friend Chip set out on a mission. Got to the spot at 8am and at only 30 degrees there were very few people at the parking lot. Only the die hards deal well with the cold. They started gettin fish pretty much right off the bat, and ofcourse on the usual spring time bugs. It was a blast seeing these guys gettin on fish and seeing their rods bent over. And with the site of that I had to get some casts in here and there, and even tested out the new streamer which not only got me a fish on the LT (which can be tough) but on the Big T too. So guess ill be tying up a few more of these bad boys. Whats cool about it is that it has the darting action like i have only seen on Zorros spooks and husky jerks, and now I made a streamer that does this. Even though there wasnt to much bug activity on the LT in the morning, it didnt seem like the fish cared all that much, cuz the fishing action was great. We fished the LT till about 12:30 and we decided to hit the Big T up. The Big T had some great mayfly and midge activity, but the fish were not acting on it what so ever. We did manage to get 3 fish in a 3 hour period, I got one fish on the new streamer and a huge Big T tod on a skwala, and Chip got a nice Big T trout on a mayfly pattern too. At about 4pm we decided to go back to the LT and it was a great choice. Non stop action until we left. Cant remember the exact number of fish hooked that day, but I do know that we landed a good 20 fish between the 3 of us on the LT and 3 on the Big T between Chip and I. All in all a great day for everyone. My buddy Chip landed his biggest Rainbow on a fly rod to date and by far his best fly fishing day ever, Paul had one of his best days on the river this yr (except for steelhead season) and I landed my biggest Rainbow on the LT on my 3wt to date, and my biggest Rainbow to date on the Big T.
Here are a few pics of the epic day.

[Frank R. Pisciotta]

"...I landed my biggest Rainbow on the LT on my 3wt to date..."

Brian----IMO, it is really not a good idea to fish the LT with a 3wt rod. It stresses the trout because you have to play them longer and recovery can be a bit more difficult. Most LT regulars prefer 5 wts for the LT....minimally ...a 4 wt.

This time of year some fly anglers inadvertently may be hooking, playing, landing and releasing spawning fish. You would be surprised how many do not recognize spawning redds; not to mention those who intentionally fish redds. The new local TU chapter is contemplating signs educating anglers about redds and advising not to harass trout that are on them while doing their procreative thing.

...from one veteran to another

Frank R. Pisciotta

[jbird]

Looks like a great day. But those fish are definitly spawning.

[djwattswatts]

Man i take some great photos :D. Hey thanks B for taking time and coming out with use, it was a blast bro. Its amazing how you can catch such big fish on a 3wt B and you get them in quicker then some people do with a 5 wt or 6 wt. :D

[pit]

It seems everywhere you post your stories you have a bunch of preachers trying to educate you on your fishing tactics. I say good story and keep on fishing. I know your not fishing on the redds, as I too get harrased for posting my epic fishing stories. I've been fly fishing for 30yrs and have yet to harm a trout that I didn't eat, and still I get the retoric from the guys who just joined their local TU or other club. Don't get me wrong I'm an activest, but I can also give someone props for a job well done. Nice fish and I like your stories. Oh yea, stay the f**k off the redds!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just kidding

[Mike O]

It seems everywhere you post your stories you have a bunch of preachers trying to educate you on your fishing tactics. I say good story and keep on fishing. I know your not fishing on the redds, as I too get harrased for posting my epic fishing stories. I've been fly fishing for 30yrs and have yet to harm a trout that I didn't eat, and still I get the retoric from the guys who just joined their local TU or other club. Don't get me wrong I'm an activest, but I can also give someone props for a job well done. Nice fish and I like your stories. Oh yea, stay the f**k off the redds!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just kidding

Kinda like every single post about fishing Putah someone chimes in about NZMS. EVERY SINGLE TIME!!

[Ed Wahl]

Kinda like every single post about fishing Putah someone chimes in about NZMS. EVERY SINGLE TIME!!

As well they should. Normally the asker isn't really concerned that the askee(?) treated or not, but in asking it keeps the topic on top of everyones mind.

Where it should be.

[troutbm]

I hope you keep your backside and your little friggin camera away from my favorites rivers !

[TaylerW]

nice fish brian.

to the haters. get off the computer and go fishing.

[jbird]

I've been fly fishing for 30yrs and have yet to harm a trout that I didn't eat,

So you dont fish with hooks? Quite frankly, Ive been flyfishing for over 20 years and I have never NOT harmed a fish with a hook and line. I absolutely guarantee youve harmed many fish, probably killed a few too. It happens. Were not talking about photography or golf here. This is a bloodsport whether you want it to be or not.

Honestly I can understand new flyfishers having a hoot with spawning fish, not knowing (or caring) about the ethical backlash. But for veteran fisherman, you catch 3 or 4 spawners and its time to take a look at the ethics of it. Maybe time to move to some different water? Those fish ARE spawning and are easy targets.

Im not trying to be the bad guy here, but if your gonna post pictures of such obviously spawning trout on a flyfishing forum, you gotta expect some heat. A lot of guys read this forum, and learn from the veterans.

[Nick B]

Agreed... those fish, especially that one in the middle were spawning. That middle fish appears to be milting all over Brian's hand. Probably a good idea to not fish the LT for a month or so and let those fish get done with the boinking.

[Scott V]

I hope you keep your backside and your little friggin camera away from my favorites rivers !

What rivers are you talking about so I won't take any pictures there?:D

[WinterrunRon]

Okay, here's perhaps a silly question. I'm not a well-educated trout stream fisherman, so excuse my ignorance on this subject, but how the hell do you avoid catching spawning trout in May? :???: Are not all adult trout spawning in spring? I know what is being referred to when it comes to targeting fish on a redd (which I do agree is not cool and simply unsportsmanlike), but if your not targeting them on a redd or fishing "redd water", how do you avoid hooking them if you're fishing all the other wet stuff?

Any I do have to say, the lessons/criticism/instructions (whatever you want to call it) really do get old after a while. Seems just about every poster of every fish pic gets a screen-full of how to play the fish, how to hold the fish, how to take a picture of the fish, how to avoid catching the fish, how to not harm the fish, how not to stress the fish, how to revive the fish, how to release the fish, where to walk, where not to wade... ad nauseum. I know you won't ever see me post another picture of one of my outings... ever. The criticism is ridiculous. And I've also noticed that those that criticize seem to be the one's that seldom to never post a picture of their outings. :-k.

Seems to me, if one's that concerned about the health of a caught fish, perhaps this isn't their sport. There's no way to impale a hook in a fish, fight it to landing and not harm it to some degree, regardless of what weight rod you use.

Thanks for your report and being thick-skinned enough to post your pics. I enjoyed reading it and viewing them. :)

[gilligan]

Interesting conversation. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with posting photos of your fishing trip. I do it myself. What Frank is trying to say is that we locals do not fish the LT, or the Truckee for that matter with a 3wt. I think a soft 5wt is perfect for the LT. I really don’t see how you can land those fish in a timely manner, turning their head in heavy current with a 3wt. I know you can’t do that with a 3wt on a big wild Truckee River fish. Wading and fishing on redds is a big problem on the LT. Our newly formed TU chapter #103 in Truckee are working trying to get signs made to make people aware of what redds are and where not to walk, or fish.

www.gilligansguideservice.com
www.gilligansguideservice.blogspot.com

[Nick B]

WR,
You have a point, most rainbows spawn in the spring. However, the timing is highly variable, and actually more of a product of water temperature and flow regime than time of year. Putah is a perfect example of a system where the fish spawn as early as October/November because of a cock-eyed flow regime and flat-lined temperature. My .02$ would be if you are into spawning fish, pack it up and head else where. The LT is a tailwater, and thus different from many other streams in the Tahoe/Truckee area, try one of them. Also, browns and brooks both spawn under different flows and temperatures (typically, but not always associated with the fall), so targeting one of the them during this time period is also a possibility. That being said, I have definitely nailed spawning fish before. It happens. I am not trying to get on a soap box...

If you are fishing a stream during the spawn there are several conditions RBT really like to have while they are on the redd:
1) gravelly substrate... if you don't fish gravelly substrate you probably will not catch actively spawning fish.
2) moderate flow velocities 1-4 cm/s are preferable for spawning fish. If you fish a low flow habitat or concentrate on pools, you will probably not nail spawners as often.

And really, the best way to catch trophy fish is when they are spawning. This is well known in the bass world, where fishing the spawn is remarkably popular. Not particularly sporting in my book, but that is just MY book. You need to fish by your own rules.

[jbird]

Okay, here's perhaps a silly question. I'm not a well-educated trout stream fisherman, so excuse my ignorance on this subject, but how the hell do you avoid catching spawning trout in May? :???: Are not all adult trout spawning in spring? I know what is being referred to when it comes to targeting fish on a redd (which I do agree is not cool and simply unsportsmanlike), but if your not targeting them on a redd or fishing "redd water", how do you avoid hooking them if you're fishing all the other wet stuff?

Any I do have to say, the lessons/criticism/instructions (whatever you want to call it) really do get old after a while. Seems just about every poster of every fish pic gets a screen-full of how to play the fish, how to hold the fish, how to take a picture of the fish, how to avoid catching the fish, how to not harm the fish, how not to stress the fish, how to revive the fish, how to release the fish, where to walk, where not to wade... ad nauseum. I know you won't ever see me post another picture of one of my outings... ever. The criticism is ridiculous. And I've also noticed that those that criticize seem to be the one's that seldom to never post a picture of their outings. :-k.

Seems to me, if one's that concerned about the health of a caught fish, perhaps this isn't their sport. There's no way to impale a hook in a fish, fight it to landing and not harm it to some degree, regardless of what weight rod you use.

Thanks for your report and being thick-skinned enough to post your pics. I enjoyed reading it and viewing them. :)

Most salmonids spawn in faster, broken water. Water thats not too fast to build a nest but fast enough to provide the oxygen required for the survival of the offspring. Its typically shallower water because deep fast water has too much volumn pushing thru. An example would be wading, You can easily wade 18" of swift water but not 4' of the same speed... So the short answer is, yes. In most all trout streams, there are non spawning fish in the system. They will generally be smaller fish but there will be a few large ones too as not 100% of adult fish spawn every year.

The hens can be hard to ID because they dont take on the same colors as the bucks in the spawn. But the bucks are the ones most likely to bite. Especially when presented with a big streamer. As can be seen in the pictures here. But they also eat bugs and other stuff. Hanky panky is hungry business :-)

Theres at least two ways to avoid them (if you choose to avoid them). Learn and understand the water trout spawn in and the season they are there. Or just start fishin, catch one spawner, maybe a fluke, catch another one, youre probably in, or near redds.

I am also glad this report was posted with pictures and I am glad the discussion ensued. People need to read this stuff and they can decide for themselves. When I started flyfishing, I fished for spawning fish and thought it was great! Big, easy trout! Once I learned that these spawning trout are the reason theres rivers full of trout, I thought twice about it. The more people that know and care about this stuff, the better.

Im not trying to stuff anything down anyones throat here. I am pointing out facts about trout and that spawning fish are sensitive and gullable and are the future of many trout streams and people can decide for themselves.

[Charlie Gonzales]

Unfortunately ego's outweigh common sense.

[bclem81]

I fish Putah a lot, and that is where I recieved my education on locating redds. Not only in the shallow tailouts that everyone thinks, but also in the drop offs, shelfs, and deepr pools that have good seams that maybe 2,3,4 and sometimes 5ft deep. They dont just spawn in the shallow water. Most people think that fishing behind the redds in the deeper pools is ok. Most of the time it is, but sometimes there are redds there as well, you just have to know the spawning activity of fish to figure out if there is one there or not. Fish will spawn where ever they can. Especially if you go to putah in the winter time. With weed growth, silt and flows these fish whether putah or the LT, will spawn in very interesting areas. Right now, rainbows are spawning in good numbers on the LT, which is good to see. If you know what to look for, and where not to fish, you can still have an epic day. I had djwatts fishing a nice 4ft deep pool above some redds and he was doing very well in it all day. Chip (the guy in the middle pic) was fishing the pool below some redds. I made sure both pools did not have any fish spawning on redds in both of them. Both pool were holding fish, and some big fish as well. None of them were paired up, none of them on redds, all actively feeding and they were scattered throughout the pools. No one is perfect, and when I first started fly fishing, I didnt know any better and fished for these guys. Now its a different story. I know what to look for and I stay off the redds. I do more educating on the LT than any other water in california. Cant tell you how many guys where walking all over redds, and actually lining fish. I personally cant stand that, so i did my part.

As far as TU putting up signs, I think that is a bad idea. We did this on Putah Creek and it just tells people "hey there are redds here, which means big fish so come fish them". So its just a big blinking light for people that dont care. To me i think closing down these rivers during the spawn would be a great idea. Kinda tough when to put a time on it because the time the rainbows spawn each yr changes, but alteast it will still help. Just my 2 cents.

[WinterrunRon]

Very interesting. I had no idea of the timing diversity in spawning trout or the complex issues that some of you guys address prior to the first cast and during the fishing day. Unfortunately, I would be one of the guys that just show up and start working a good looking piece of water. #-o

I would like to say, however, that I am biased to big water and big fish and have never really taken a liking to fishing crystal clear water barely flowing. Guess it's just not my cup o' tea. I appreciate that others live for it, but it's a darn good thing I'm not in charge of these streams, because I would close any river not flowing at say 200-300cfs or more to fishing. :shock:

[Charlie Gonzales]

My question is if you know thats theres is so many spawning fish in the immediate area, why even fish it? Those fish are stressed enough, why put them through more unneeded stress? Even if they are off their beds they are going to be very aggressive and looking for food and hit most anything presented to them.

[Mike R]

You guys should have definitley been fishing for now-spawning fish somewhere else! Like Pyramid. Oh, wait...

Great pics. Makes me want to get up there soon.

Mike

[bclem81]

This can get into a very long debate. Whether we should and shouldnt fish a river during spawning time. Why do we fish the American, Yuba or any river for that matter from fall to early spring, well because there are a lot of fish in the system in a confined area and like you said they will eat anything . There are a lot of guides floating and wading these rivers during the spawning season for salmon, steelhead and trout. If you know there are so many spawning fish in these rivers or immediate areas of where those guys or you are fishing, why fish it. Because you can get people on a lot of fish this time of yr. Its the same thing. Its how you fish it where ethics come into play. Its either you are snagging and lining fish while standing over a redd, or the right way and fishing below or away from the redds and hooking fish that are actively feeding on the eggs and other insects that are being kicked up. There is an ethical way to fish the spawn and an unethical way, this is what makes the difference.

[SHigSpeed]

You guys should have definitley been fishing for now-spawning fish somewhere else! Like Pyramid. Oh, wait...

Great pics. Makes me want to get up there soon.

Mike

<lol> But at least they're spawning in a concrete channel and stainless steel tables - not in the main body of the lake! :)

_SHig

[bigfly]

These were just the issues I was trying to avoid, by posting the preseason LT report.
These are wild trout. Trying to make a new generation of fishes for us.
I won't say, don't fish over spawners, it's your karma or whatever.
I've fished for a few early in my time. Hell, even drifted an egg pattern (ye gads). It's just too easy. (I would fish downstream for Browns eating bow roe though.)
Please, come up and fish the LT, just try to stay out of the water! Wading through the reds, wipes out future fun.
I'm sure Brian, and friends were careful, just unaware how the post might provoke a response.
Much of the LT (just like Hat Crk) can be fished without wading. Might avoid the transfer of invasives too.
Once you adopt a bit of water for a few years, it's funny how your perspective can change.
Now, if it's too easy (around here that is strange) I move on, because I know that's what's going on, whether I can see reds or not..
Everywhere you go fish, people have a locals take on things, we're no different. I like the pre spawn aggresivness, but give them a break on the beds.
Pictures are great, I love looking at fish, and have posted a few, just shoot so all of the internet can't tell exactly where you hooked up.
Make them work a little, drive up fish don't build character.
Personally, I like to fish the Big T. To me, that's where the challenge is around here anyway..
I've never heard or used the term, "little tuffy".

Jim

[Xnjb707X]

I just try to avoid rivers that have active spawning fish, I can't out weigh the good over the bad. Like with Putah I stop fishing it at the end of November, and don't come back tell early March. Same thing with the Yuba, I stop when they start spawning in early March - end of April. I didn't always fish with this philosophy, it's something that grew on me. It puts fly fishing on the back burner during spawning seasons, which gives time for my other hobbies. I get more out of fishing now because I never have to look and see a redd and pack up and go, search here, search over there, oh their still spawning time to check another spot, it just gets old. That and watching where you wade and all that, I just like the safety of knowing I'm not trampling on eggs or fishing for a fish that is spawning, but that's just me and the way I roll. It is hard to know that there are big fish to be caught during the spawning time and to not fish for them, but those fish are there in late spring, summer, and fall. They are just harder to catch. To each his own..

- Nic

[Hairstacker]

First the Steelhead section, now the Trout section . . . . <sigh>

[Black Cloud]

I hate to change the subject but does anyone have a good recipe for cooking a carp.

[Charlie Gonzales]

steam it whole with lemon grass then pour 400 degree peanut oil over it when its done to crisp the skin. Yummy!

[Scott V]

I hate to change the subject but does anyone have a good recipe for cooking a carp.

I hope that carp wasn't spawning!!! Just kidding, it's a joke.:D

[Dustin Revel]

did you get the last fish on a bisquik fly... it looks about ready for a stack of flap jacks... and a smoke.

[Black Cloud]

Scott, of course it was spawning and it was also hooked in the tail.http://www.kiene.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

[flyfishag]

Do guides typically fish with their clients?

[bclem81]

I wasnt guiding, I was fishing with my friends.

[jbird]

Do guides typically fish with their clients?

Depending on the situation, I'll ask the guide to fish. Mostly when I hire a guide I am in an unfamiliar fishery and Im more or less hiring him to put me on fish. Not teach me how to fish. But If I think it would be educational for me, I'll ask him to fish. A lot of times I have to ask a few times because they respectfully decline. But if theres enough room and enough fish.... Thereve been a few times with guides where we both put a major hurt on the fish and we were laughing and havin a ball. Some cool friendships have been forged that way.

[bigfly]

There are a variety of ways to learn (See it, hear it, do it, etc.).
Some people need to see me do it to get the hang of a technique.
When I do a demo drift early in the session and hook up, I just pray that it won't work out to be the only fish that day.
The flip side, is after hours of fishing with no love, they'll ask to see me fish.
If I can get a fish on the first drift, they refocus, and cooperate more.
Mostly, If I fish, I'm not guiding, if I'm guiding I don't fish. It's the clients' day not mine, they deserve my full attention.
As Jbird said, sometimes after a few trips out with a client who has game, we get past the guide/client thing and just fish. Although, more than once, I've had to break off a fish to go help in landing one.

Jim