DFG should manage stripers like weeds

[Ralph]

Marty, is this true or is the pro water export media smearing you?

"Last night a chill ran down my spine imagining that Delta smelt go extinct … while we have done nothing proactive to address predation by striped bass," Marty Gingras, supervising biologist for Fish and Game's Bay Delta Region, wrote in a February 2007 e-mail. "I'm again thinking we should propose revising the striped bass policy to consider them a 'weed' like pigs or a similar pest."

The e-mail was labeled "Confidential" and sent to Gingras' boss, Chuck Armor, who replied, "I share your concern."

Full article here:http://www.sacbee.com/2010/02/27/2569080/lawsuit-striped-bass-to-blame.html?storylink=omni_popular

[Ralph]

Marty responded to his statement on another board:

We provided ~90,000 pages of documents to the Plaintiffs, Weiser excerpted from one document, and I was deposed for 24 hours. Yes, it was taken out of context. Because litigation is on-going and the Plaintiffs monitor this site, I will say nothing more.

[David Lee]

Because litigation is on-going and the Plaintiffs monitor this site, I will say nothing more.

Interesting 'answer' ?

David , a huge fan of full disclosure

[Charlie Gonzales]

Dont think Marty is hiding anything, he just doesnt want to say anything that could be taken out of context. Or like someone talking about how "the stripers were gorgeing themselves on the salmon fry", just adding fuel to the fire!

[David Lee]

CG -

I think that , with a story like that in the Sacramento Bee (not exactly a low-profile venue , right ?) , Marty would RUN like mad to make his position clear . Something as simple as "No , that was taken out of context" , or "Yes , I believe Striped Bass are a clear cause of Salmon decline in California" would be a good idea and go a long way to save his professional reputation at this point . Remember , this is a DFG Biologist that has hit ALL OF US up for information on our Striped Bass fishing in the recent past ..... I think we are owed a bit more clairity .

Saying "Because litigation is on-going and the Plaintiffs monitor this site, I will say nothing more." sounds to my ears like the same old political bullshit that one says when caught w/ a hand in the cookie jar -"I did not have sex with ...." , later on "Define sex" kind of nonsense .

I want a clear answer .

David

[huntindog]

from what i can tell this was an informal conversation between two colleagues...goes to show why email is such a bad way to conduct informal conversations...they become permanant record. There are lots of people in DFG that share the same opinion..it has been talked about for years. Now they are aftraid that their lack of addressing the issue is going to lead to bigger problems. You cant blame this guy for this...his conversation was a duplicate of hundreds of conversations between dfg staff

[Dan Harrison]

Read the article in the sac bee this morning and it should concern all of us. I could just see ice chests stacked full of 12 inch stripers. Just a chilling thought to me. I am no biologist but from what I remember when the salmon and steelhad were more plentiful so were the stripers. So we could loose the salmon and steelhead due to water quality and the striper due to politics. Wow

[Bob Laskodi]

This ain't gonna be popular (I feel like I'm preaching the benefits of Christianity to the Taliban!), but I'm gonna defend Marty. First off I will say I have no official connection to Marty and the DFG, and I do not have any "insider" information about the alleged "soundbite" quotes and this is strictly my opinion only. In addition I want to make this perfectly clear that I am not speaking for Marty. As unpopular as this will sound, Marty has a duty while working for the DFG to protect species protected under environmental laws (like the Endangered Species Act). He also has a duty to protect sport fishing interests, but if in fact the striped bass is found to be a significant predation threat to endangered species, he may have to recommend management strategies that will go against sportfishing interests. That's his job, and that's what he gets paid for. That may include evaluating and recommending management strategies such as "managing stripers like weeds", to name only one possible management strategy. He is not the "final decision maker" as he is a scientist and not a politician/manager/judge, and the politicians/managers/judges will have the final say.
Now this is not my opinion but fact. There is very little good scientific data on striped bass' predation on other species in CA. There are currently efforts underway to examine specifically what striped bass are eating and what percentage of their diet consists of endangered/threatened species. The efforts I'm aware of will not be finished in time (as final study results) for the lawsuit. But eventually, better answers based on scientific observation will be available as to what stripers are actually eating.

[Mrs.Finsallaround]

This study shows that the majority of their diet 2001-2003 was threadfin shad and siberian prawn....

Diet Composition study in San Francisco Estuary Striped Bass: Does trophic adaptability have its limits? (http://http://calsport.org/di5-26-08.pdf)

Very interesting read.

I'm going to have faith that the quote in the article about treating stripers like weeds was taken out of context, as so many things in this world are. This is not the first study I've read about striped bass diets in the delta NOT being comprised of endangered species. =; It is true they are opportunistic fish, but it just makes me sick that pro-water users want to make this species the fall guy, just so they can have more water for crops that should be grown elsewhere anyway. [-(

[Double_Haul]

I think it is alittle premature to throw Marty under the bus based on what a Sac Bee writer states is true. If you read the article Weisser makes statements such as "But if man helps one voracious eater that doesn't belong, is that fair?" "the striper has become the Delta's top predator, feasting on Delta smelt, juvenile salmon and steelhead" Doesn't belong and feasting on Delta smelt is a little bias don't you think? How did this one bit of information just happen to leak out? All part of the constant "spin" that Westlands and the other Corp Ag dish out? So far I have only seen benifical contributions to other boards from Marty, and always very professional, just as his refusal to engage others on those board which may give more ammo to the opposition.
So until I can read the 24hrs of deposition and decide for my self I will not pass judgement. If it turns out that the 40 years of DFG studies, trawl net studies, creel censuses and such that I thought were to benifit the striper were really done to eradicate the striper then I to will throw my torch on the fire as well.

[matt johnson]

I also think it is way too early to jump Marty's case.

Newspaper writers get all kinds of stuff wrong.

As a whole, I think our CA DFG is pretty screwed up, but on the individual level, there are many fine biologists in the department doing good work.

I recently had a nice email exchange with Marty regarding how the juvenile striper indices were conducted. In this exchange Marty used the phrase: "Stripers will grow like weeds if given the chance" when addressing my question of whether he thought the delta striper fishery had a future. I bring this up because people often repeat the same thing and a similar statement in a department email could have easily been taken out of context.

Anyway, like everyone else I am holding my breath on this one, although I am fairly confident that judge Wanger will see in the data that scapegoating striped bass is total BS. Matt.

[huntindog]

This study shows that the majority of their diet 2001-2003 was threadfin shad and siberian prawn....

Diet Composition study in San Francisco Estuary Striped Bass: Does trophic adaptability have its limits? (http://http://calsport.org/di5-26-08.pdf)

Very. [-(

Just because salmon or smelt are not the majority doesn't mean there aren't impacts...remember we are talking about endangred species (there aren't many of them left) they couldn't possibly constitute the majority of their diet. Even if these species only made up say %5 of the diet (hypothetical numbers here) that may make up %25 of the population...there is an impact...simply stating that the majority of their diet was other species means nothing

[Bob Laskodi]

The 'dog gots it right!!! There's this thing called the Endangered Species Act, which comes in to play big time. All the water users have to do is prove that stripers are preying on endangered species and bingo, game over for stripers. And guess what, that ain't going to be hard to prove!!! Doesn't matter that the Delta got all screwed up by massive water exports and stripers aren't really a significant cause in the decline of endangered species. Yeah the striper lawsuit is nothing but smoke and mirrors to hide the massive export of water causing environmental disaster in the Delta. If there is any significant predation on endangered species, DFG will be forced to manage the impact of those predators by the courts. Quite frankly, I see the originator of this thread accomplishing nothing but character assassination and really feel bad for Marty.

[David Lee]

.... There's this thing called the Endangered Species Act, which comes in to play big time. All the water users have to do is prove that stripers are preying on endangered species and bingo, game over for stripers. And guess what, that ain't going to be hard to prove!!!

And here's where I have a problem finding an answer to the overall situation -

What DOESN'T eat endangered Salmon/Steelhead ?? Crayfish and Sculpin raiding redds , Suckers and Squawfish (both natives) eating eggs/Parr/Smolts , Kingfishers diving on Smolts , etc. . Where do we stop as far as thinning the predators ?? Remove the non-native Striped Bass that people spend $$$$ to fish for ? Remove the native Squawfish and Suckers that no one spends $$$ to fish for ( populations are huge of both species) ....

How about thinning/removing the one species that has contributed the most to ruining Salmon/Steelhead populations - Humans ??

Yes , I realize there isn't a practical answer , just thinkin' again .....

David

[Tony Buzolich]

Bob,

You're right on about a lot of stuff that's been said. The one thing that got me thinking was your statement about manageing predators by the DFG. I'm sure some of these delta smelt get eaton by just about every fish out there that's bigger than they are. But, what predator is the greatest threat? I would think black bass are a bigger threat there because of their permanent residence in the delta. Their habitat is where these smelt live, hide and feed.

I think and even bigger predator are the pumps down there which are non-discriminately consuming everything and anything that gets to their intakes. Not only would this include the delta smelt, but the fry of all species including salmon and steelhead that depend on currant flow to carry them out to sea. With the re-direction of currant flows caused by the water exports south, there is less natural flow to carry the fry in the driection they need to go in order to survive and sustain its species. Those fry that get sucked south never get to help with the survival of any of their own kind.

And, it all comes back to water. Those with water live and grow, those with less water dwindle and die. With such a huge population increase coming into California from across our southern border how can we possibly support both factions, nature vs. people?

[Bob Laskodi]

Tony, all of the studies I'm aware of right now are only focusing on stripers. One study underway is doing DNA analysis of stomach contents of hook and line caught stripers in order to determine exactly what species they are eating and how much, since it's hard to look at a stomach sample and decide what that glob really is. And three guesses who's funding these studies (you won't need three guesses!!). And you bet, I agree that black bass are likely eating endangered species also, since that makes sense since they are opportunistic feeders like stripers. They likely will be next on the hit list because they are also a non-native species.

[huntindog]

I think we all agree that big ag water diversions are the real criminal. Right now salmon are faced with the perfect storm of issues..diversions being the primary culprit, but predation and ocean conditions contribute. Bottom line...WESTLANDS are the biggest scoundrels on the planet, in my eyes anyway...

[Mrs.Finsallaround]

And here's where I have a problem finding an answer to the overall situation -

What DOESN'T eat endangered Salmon/Steelhead ?? Crayfish and Sculpin raiding redds , Suckers and Squawfish (both natives) eating eggs/Parr/Smolts , Kingfishers diving on Smolts , etc. . Where do we stop as far as thinning the predators ?? Remove the non-native Striped Bass that people spend $$$$ to fish for ? Remove the native Squawfish and Suckers that no one spends $$$ to fish for ( populations are huge of both species) ....

How about thinning/removing the one species that has contributed the most to ruining Salmon/Steelhead populations - Humans ??

Yes , I realize there isn't a practical answer , just thinkin' again .....

David

Thank you David! ;-)

[OceanSunfish]

How about thinning/removing the one species that has contributed the most to ruining Salmon/Steelhead populations - Humans ??

David

Yes, "humans", the ultimate parasitic species..... especially the greedy water grabbers to the south.

[Phil Synhorst]

I also think it is way too early to jump Marty's case.

Newspaper writers get all kinds of stuff wrong.

Matt may have hit the nail on the head. Investigative Journalism is a thing of the past; double sourcing information and fact checking are only legend now.

I don't remember such a big to do about Stripers 20-25 years ago, but back then I was young and dumb, and didn't pay attention to conservation matters. Now I'm old and dumb.:D Any of you guys and gals that were around back then remember such a fuss? I'm inclined to go with the majority on this one; it's a smoke screen for water exports.

[Scott V]

Hey look everyone, Phil is still alive and probably wearing his infamous camo shorts. Hi Phil, miss you buddy.

[Phil Synhorst]

Hey look everyone, Phil is still alive and probably wearing his infamous camo shorts. Hi Phil, miss you buddy.

Hola Mr. Architect.:)

Yep, still alive and kickin', haven't broken out the shorts though, a little too cold yet. Hopefully we'll get out fishing a few times this season.