shooting head question

[Fats]

Ok... really basic question but I thought I'd ask your opinion.

How are you guys attaching your shooting heads to mono running line? On the running lines with loops built in... no brainer. Are you putting a loop knot in the end of your amnesia so you can quickly change heads? If so, what loop?

I've seen some people attach their heads with a clinch style knot which made a super small connection which zipped through the guides well. How does that work for fishing?

Right now I've got a bimini loop in the end of mine but it seems a little bulky.

What do you guys use?

[Larry S]

Fats:
Here's the link to a Blanton article on "getting looped."

http://www.danblanton.com/gettinglooped.html

Larry S

[Cal]

Having used mono running lines off and on since the 60's, I would have to say I greatly prefer the new fly line based running lines such as Airflo Ridge Floating and the Rio Intermediate in the range of 0.030" diameter. Nice big factory loops, very supple with few tangles and they cast almost as far as mono. Yes, they are significantly more expensive than mono, but if you take care of them they last a lot longer.

Every now and then I will go back and experiment with the latest mono, such as Rio's new 50 lb version of Slick Shooter, but I find that when I am fishing with mono I spend less time fishing and more time untangling the line and for the extra 10 ft of casting distance -- it really isn't worth it.

If you are set on using mono, I think you should forget about loops, particularly with Amnesia (the line that forgot it is not supposed to have memory) because it is so stiff that any large size loop which you could pass your head through is going to make a bulky loop that is not going to compress well. Just think of how a bulky loop is going to rip through your guides when you almost have a big steelhead to hand and it takes off on one last blistering run. You have probably experienced that already with your bimini knot.

Better to attach the running line directly to your head with an Albright or reduced Albright (just use the top half of the knot to secure the running line to the loop on the end of your shooting head). You can cut off the mono and retie pretty quickly to change heads.

[Bruce Slightom]

Regardless of what type shooting line that you are using, in my experience it is more efficient to make the cast with the head just outside of the tip top. Start with enough over hang that the knot does not come back into the tip top when you make a haul. Too much over hang is counter productive as the shooting line will not transfer any energy. Play with it until you find the sweet spot that works for you.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

In the 'old days' factory shooting heads (Cortland & SA) had a heavy Dacron loop whipped on the end and we tied our mono (Cobra, 707, Yellow Stren, Orange Bow Serving) shooting line to it with a clinch/cinch knot.

Every so often though, after several hours of casting you needed to cut off the head and cut off a few feet of mono and re-tie it.

Over the years we have tried almost every mono we could looking for the "Holy Grail" of mono shooting line ?

Today I don't like to ever recommend mono shooting line, especially to new comers. With all the new running lines with welded loops that come in floating and intermediate sink and in different diameters mono is not as popular as it once was.

In some situations mono might give you a different feedback or feel and it does shoot a little further but for most it is harder to hang onto and tangles more than a factory running line.

"Shoot & strip" on.............

[Fats]

Fats:
Here's the link to a Blanton article on "getting looped."

http://www.danblanton.com/gettinglooped.html

Larry S

I'm a fan of the braided loops. I've been splicing those for years! Creating custom tips is just part of the tinkering game for me.

I was asking more about connecting the running line (mono in this case) to the loop at the end of the head.

Maybe I'll try setting my wife's rig up with a better running line today instead of trying to go with the mono...

[dpentoney]

If I change heads I change spools. So I have always prefered the '60s technology of pushing a needle into the end of the shooting head about half an inch, and using that to pull the running line (cobra, amnesia, mono) thorugh so it enters the end of the head and exits about a half inch up. Then I tie a nail knot, slilde it down tight, and coat that with pliobond. This makes for a splice that will pass through the guides smoothly and easily.

I do the same thing at the other end with a butt section of tapered leader.

[lee s.]

Fats,
Being an Old F--T, it is hard to see the advantages of the "new" running lines....except that they do seem a BIT more user friendly.....but that is ONLY if you have NOT learned to stretch the mono before fishing. Mono type line causes the least water resistance for sinkability and the lightest line to be detrimental to casting distance. I have ONLY found the bigger, heavier running lines advantageous when wind blows lines out of the stripping bucket.
Our head systems get hard, constant use from floating to LC heads and being as LAZY as I am, I find that useing the clinch knot to be the best for our application. It forces us to remove the old , abused line that developes right behind the head during your hauls....the knot will not hold unless good line is present. Even if you choose to use a 100% knot, as in a bimini loop, I would suggest retying that connection at least daily.
There are knots that are 100%, loop knots too, and the clinch knot is not 100%, but we have not found that to be detrimental to fishing and landing success from sailfish to bluegills.
....lee s.

[Rick J]

I have always used a clinch knot (not an improved one) - 4 or at most 5 turns with amnesia. If you use an improved clinch it weakens appreciably. I have fished for kings on the Smith and Chetco for years using this and have never had a knot failure. I have started using Berkely Big game solar green in 40# and this works very well.

However, when I snag up on the bottom, I will tend to go out into the pool to get the head in before I break off as I don't exactly know where the system is snagged and where it will break.

[Fats]

$35 for the Rio stuff vs $6 for amnesia. My wife better like the Rio! I'll give it a test run tomorrow!

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

If I change heads I change spools. So I have always prefered the '60s technology of pushing a needle into the end of the shooting head about half an inch, and using that to pull the running line (cobra, amnesia, mono) thorugh so it enters the end of the head and exits about a half inch up. Then I tie a nail knot, slilde it down tight, and coat that with pliobond. This makes for a splice that will pass through the guides smoothly and easily.

I do the same thing at the other end with a butt section of tapered leader.

Yes DP

That is a real good way to do it.

[Rick J]

DP - that can be way too many spools if you have an intermediate, type II, III, IV,V and on but if the heads don't have loops you can always tie a nail knot rather than a needle nail knot pretty quickly

[LakeFisher]

I've seen some people attach their heads with a clinch style knot which made a super small connection which zipped through the guides well. How does that work for fishing?


Hi Fats,

Clinch knot works great for me. I throw a lot of shooting head (mostly T-8, T-14) fishing for Surf Perch and Striper and I use mono running line (Sufix 30#) for the most part. I put braided loops at the end of the head and I use a "up and down" clinch not to tie the mono running line to the braided loop. Basically it's a 4 turn clinch knot which you wind up then wind down then put the tag end thru the hole to finish it off. I've tried putting loops at the running line using Bimini and Perfection and they always tend to hang up on the guide which is maddening. The modified clinch knot is compact and smooth so you don't have that problem. Just make sure to pull down on the knot so that the tag end is cinched tight to the loop. I also leave about 1/16" tag. And if you need to change the head, just cut it off and tie the new head on.

Mono running line take a bit of getting used to like others have mentioned but I love it because it shoots so well and it so cheap. Try Sufix 30#. Hope this helps.

-Lakefisher

[wjorg]

Suffix Elite. Only problem is twist. Kink resistant.

Amnesia second. Stiffer than suffix. Not as kink resistant.

Slickshootet is worthless, oval-kinks. Throw it away.

Use lefty kreh loop on shooting line, and triple inside out braided loop on head if there is no loop.

[Max.garth]

I use SA 12# 41 foot S4/7 heads, range from 650 to 750gns, a Monic GsP runner in 0.024", use loops and a 30lb Bionic Braid (Actual 42lb) backing. Rod can be anything from a TFO 9# 11' switch to a Talon Graphite Midgar 15 footer in 10/11.
But I also use a 12# 60' head, floater, for roll casting the Talon. I also use a couple of Loop Adaptive heads, sinkers in 10/11 for the 15 footer, and 8/9, for the 12 footers.
I don't use mono runners, too much stretch with graphite rods and GsP backing lines. Everything in my system is designed to be as low stretch as can be achieved, but I use stretchy, shock buffering leaders, twisted types from 12 to 15 feet long, including the 20lb tippet and 50lb wire shocker.
The reel is a Hayden Maxum 3:1 multiplying 5" diameter. Holds 1000 yards of 30lb BB.
I don't use these things much these days, designed for fishing off ocean rocks after pelagics.
Casting is always Scandi style, except when roll casting of low coastal reefs.
MaxG.

[Max.garth]

PS... I do use a Hip Shooter basket but, mostly, when fishing off rocks I dump the runner onto a pinned down panel of prawn net, stretched pretty tightly. I NEVER have backing line out of the runners unless its taken by fish.
MaxG.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Thanks Max

Are you fishing mostly two-handed rods now?

Are you fishing rivers as well as the saltwater?