HPC report , part 2

[David Lee]

Tackle -

If you didn't bring it , it doesn't exist . There's no way in Hell I'd travel this far and NOT bring the kitchen sink . Spares will save the trip .

I used ....

A Sage SP+ 6 wt. , matched w/ a Stutz Estuary reel . Used this rig a lot during the first several days and was pleased (until I 'over extended' it ... LOLOLOLOLOL) . Fished 12 Lb. on it , big fish was a Roo' in the 4 or 5 Lb. range .

Sage RPLX 7 , 9 , and 10 Wt.. The 10 was not used . The 7 & 9 saw the majority of action .

Talon Australia 7/8 wt. , 12-foot overhead double hander w/ a Teton 9/11 reel . Just about the perfect rig for the beach .

TFO 12x12 Overhead double - also unused as conditions were too rough for sight fishing . Ideal for low-light @ Punta Arena .... 'cause you never know .

I fished the 6 wt. (used a Rio I head , 250 grains , and 30-feet of T-8 on this rig , running line was Suffix , 30 Lb.) from the 19th until the morning of the 25th - great fun for fiddling around with small fish but a Jack Crevalle in the 12-15 Lb. class cured my foolishness the evening of the 24th (actually held the Jack for a few minutes .... I think it realized I wasn't foolin' around and rocked me in short order after that) . Switched to the 9 RPLX w/ a Teton 9/11 the morning of the 25th and was real glad I made the switch - landed 3 J.C.s in the 10-12 Lb. class before dawn and the 9 handled them well . Used a 9 wt. Rio Outbound long tropical I line on the 9 - slightly demanding to cast , but shot great and worked well . Used straight 20 Lb. on this rig .

Fished the 7 RPLX a lot , used a Teton 7 RA and Rio I head (300 grains) , also 30-feet of T-8 . Used a SA Running line (.030 I) and have nothing good to say about it - it twisted , tangled into fantastic knots , and generally behaved poorly , despite my constant attention to stretching/un-twisting/dressing it . I came VERY close to smashing this rig because of the running line's shitty problems - not clear on if the problems were temp related , or what the deal was .... needless to say , never again .

Used a Teton 9/11 and SA Striper taper 9 wt. I line on the Talon 12-footer . Great , easy all-around rig to use . Will likely become a favorite outfit in the near future ....

Flies -

I tyed a fair amount for this trip , and had most of them totally destroyed by fish . School Sierra were fine , but there were hordes of dink(under 16-inches) Sierra that would BANG a fresh Clouser on the first cast , I would strip-in HALF a fly that was unusable . I lost over 50 flies ....

The BEST flies were Clousers , size # 2 and 1/0 , colors were Olive over White , Chart over White (red-hot !!) , and Gray over White . Bring a pile of ALL BLACK ones for fishing after/before light , they kill ! Used Mike's 'Clouser-'Hoo' in size #2-2/0 to match the halfbeaks that were common in camp waters .... they worked well and held up fine . Had an EPIC morning on Ken Hanley's Gold Buccaneer , size #1 -Landed 5 Lookdowns , a nice snot-stick , my first Ribera Cabrilla , and a 2 1/2 Lb. JC . Also used Decievers on circle hooks , and went thru a pile of Surf Candies @ the Lighthouse on Ladyfish . Caught Ladies on a #6 Pink Keel Bugger (!!!) and think a ciggy butt would have worked at times .....

Leaders -

I used good ol' Trilene Big Game mono in mist Green, 12-20 Lb. for tippets and leaders . Triple-check your knots .... if they don't look right , re-tye .

Wire -

Didn't use any . Had quite a few bite-offs from small Sierra . Fish over 20 inches were not a problem .

Stripping basket -
Used the Mangrove one , and had zero problems with it . In fact , I wouldn't bother going fishing in the surf without it . Used the solid bottom ....

Tactics -

Late Fall/early Winter surf fishing means get up early ! I was on the beach before first light every single day of the trip except the last morning (feet were too sunburned to fish) . Rule #1 is cover the water - if you don't see bait/swirls/mayhem and death , start blind casting . Over sandy areas .... look for bait . There was a small amount of Halfbeaks around camp , and no Sardina until the last part of the trip . Sardina were in thick on the beach @ Punta Arena . JC just love eating Mojarra , a small (5 inch) fish that looks like a Crappie w/ no spots . I spent a fair amount of time rescuing Mojarra from slow death , laying on the sand because horrible ol' Jacks were driving them onto dry land .

Strip the fly in FAST - there's nothin' you can do to out run these terrible fishes , and they LOVE running down bait . Faster is almost always better , so move 'em .

I had a few good mid-day sessons in camp - Punta Arena had a consistant , all-day bite going . You won't catch many while snaked-out on the porch , Pacifico in hand .... so fish WHEN YOU CAN (pace yourself , though) ...... I did concentrate most of my trips during low-light periods because of major elbow pain ( I was NOT in shape for this trip) . Take Ibuprofin or walk it off ..... or work out BEFORE you get in country .

Onto part 3 - fish/tales .....

David

[David Lee]

A few more thoughts on flylines ........

Temp issues - I tried a 9 wt. Cortland 444 Clear Camo I line on my 7 wt. one outing (same I line I use to great effect here at home) , it was a limp as tying thread and would NOT shoot for beans . The water on this trip was between 77 and 81 degrees , so I'm not sure it warrented a Tropical-type line , though I did use the Rio Tropical outbound and had few problems w/ the running line section . I was under the impression that Tropical lines were designed for HOT boat decks while fishing for Tarpon and other such critters ... and worried more than a little about coils . I use the old Cortland 444SL big game taper I line here at home in both hot and cold conditions and never have problems w/ limpness OR coiling - I would think this to be ideal , but Cortland discontinued the line several years ago .....

The SA .030 , 25 Lb. runner HAD to have heat issues , because I know a lot of people use it to great effect just about everywhere - as I understand it , it is built pretty much the same as the SA Striper I line (one that I used in Baja w/ few problems ....) .

What I would like to see -

A 100-foot full-length flyline (I can , and often do throw longer .... but my hooksetting @ 80+ feet is pretty bad) .

A thin running line , intermediate sink (color different from the head) , head type 2 sinking , so it will have enough weight/small enough diameter to buck the wind/cut through the chop , but not sink TOO fast (a pale , translucent Green or Blue colored head would be nice) .

Head length between 30 and 36 feet (anything OVER 36 feet it too much of a task to hold in the air for the average human when you add an 8-foot leader) .

Hard coating (like the old Cortland 444SL's) .

Low-stretch core - ALL weather , not a specific cold/tropical kind of thing (if it doesn't work in water over around 85 degrees/water under 45 degrees , so be it).

Priced UNDER $65.00 (sorry .... I hate to quibble over a few bucks , but $75.00 for ANY flyline is gettin' a bit silly) . I honestly don't think that the above line is too much to ask a line company to make , it would be handy for not only Baja surf .... but the Delta and lakes here in NorCal .

Shooting heads are a great option , but we still have a ways to go as far as running lines are concerned . I like using Suffix 30 Lb. , but it IS a pain when the wind is blowing hard , and the diameter is pretty thin for easy handling . 10 years ago , we had several brands of heads that were great - many were between 400-500+ grains (handy for your 10/11/12 wt. rods) , now it is difficult to find ANY sinking head OVER 400 grains in SLOW sink rates . I love clear I heads , but the diameter per weight in any head over 300 grains is too large to cut the wind , unless you are an expert caster (I ain't too shabby , but NOT an 'expert') . A type 2 or 3 head in a non-obtrusive color would be great .

Sorry for the techno-babble , but I realy would like to hear YOUR thoughts on this subject !

David

[Hairstacker]

David, I don't play with these kinds of lines enough to have an opinion. It's too bad Bruce Richards retired from Scientific Anglers because I'd bet he'd give you some feedback if you posted it on Blanton's Board. I wonder if there's a new SA guy there who might pipe in. . . .

In any event, I would post it there as well anyway -- as you know, lots of salt guys on that board.

[Darian]

David,.... Kinda sounds like you'd like a line that fits all situations, will last a lifetime and be cheap. :unibrow: When you find one of those, let me know.... :lol: :lol:

My experience fishing in Baja has been in the surf and out of a Panga. Much prefer the Panga as I'm getting to old to run around in the sand chasing Roosters. :lol: Water temps at the time of year I'm down there (summer/fall) are routinely above 85 degrees. In October it was around 90+ degrees. Altho wind can be an issue, it isn't as consistent or as strong as it is when you're usually down there. :neutral: 8) You mentioned that your running lines blow around and are difficult to manage. Maybe the choice to use a longer rod coinciding with the time of year when north winds and wind surf are prevalent down there compound the problem of full and/or running lines blowing around and tangling has something to do with it. :confused: You may have to accept it while down there. Not so much up here.... :)

With the exception of a Clear Tropical, WF-10-I line I use for Dorado or other surface species (no issues there), I stick with shooting heads with mono (Frog Hair, chartreuse) or Int running lines with braided core on 9' rods. I've recently switched from Airflo to Rio running lines for warm water. They're braided core and .035 diameter but I've found I don't need to cast any great distance to get into fish. I've finally settled on T-14 or LC-13 heads for most everything out of a Panga and have had no issues. I've had little trouble buying shooting heads at varying sink rates and from 9 thru 14 weights. :neutral:

At any rate, I don't buy expensive lines for Baja/saltwater fishing. I try to buy when Kiene's has a sale and pick up running lines and shooting heads only. They tend to get destroyed long before their normal lifespan is up. :unibrow:

[David Lee]

David,.... Kinda sounds like you'd like a line that fits all situations, will last a lifetime and be cheap. :unibrow: When you find one of those, let me know.... :lol: :lol:


Sombody HAD to say it , and I'm glad it was you !!

Serious .....

Nothing like the line I described exists ..... YET . The only point that I will flex on is the price ...... I WILL shell out $$$ for something I NEED (only if I really , REALLY have to) , I just despise spending 3/4 of a C note on a line ..... and I'm sure I am NOT alone with this attitude !

I think I am being realistic in the greater sense in that I feel like I need this line specificly for Fall/Winter Baja surf (not to offend anyone , but you can sort of get by with pretty much ANY rig in a boat - when you've chumed-up whatever fish , and they're HOT to eat , distance/handling qualities/sink rate/etc. doesn't come into play too much , from what I understand about that kind of fishing) . This kind of line would also be of great use in saltwater surf pretty much anywhere in the world , depending on water temp extremes .....

I don't expect many gear components to last a lifetime in ANY situation (I just spent the better part of TWO DAYS tearing apart /cleaning/lubing/re-assembling 4 reels) , the simple fact is ..... surf fishing w/ a flyrod is likely the hardest thing you can put your gear through - it is perhaps the MOST demanding type of flyrodding there is . I am simply thinking/wishing that there was something a bit more user-friendly and efficent out there to use for where and how I am fishing . Casting a long-bellied line requires effort , something I'd rather NOT expend my limited concentration on while stripping , maintaining line control , and trying NOT to drown in windy , gnarly surf conditions .

In my personal fishing (no , not trying to argue ) , rod length has little to no effect on my line control issues - if it blows too hard to control a mono runner , it matters little if the rod I am casting is 9 feet , or 12 feet . The problem in the runner , not rod length . I agree that something like LC-13 is a simple , effective head to use , but not in 5 feet of water over rocks !! I have done this and do not recommend it to anyone .....

BTW , Darian ... I doubt you are too old to run after fish , I think you're too damn SMART to chase 'em ! I don't bother w/ running after anything , unless it's 20 feet away . Running= counting the seconds until you fall and eat shit/break something (in my case , anyways) , and I cannot afford the chance of injury anymore .

Thanks for the input , please keep it coming !

David

[Darian]

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that the point of using a longer rod in the surf is to make longer casts. Isn't that why you use them :question:

If that's the case, It follows that, unless all of the line is held in the air, such a fly caster would have a lot of line off the reel and in the surf to wash around and tangle while getting ready to cast.... Contributing to the line management problems you mentioned. That's an assumption but probably a fair one. :confused:

The diameter of whatever running line a caster is using would figure into this as well. It's been my experience that the running lines with a fine diameter (especially mono types) blow around more than those with thicker diameters and are more difficult to handle on the retrieve. Not wanting to be argumentative, but, it seems to me that use of the longer rod does contribute to line management issues. :cool:

Regardless, it doesn't seem that we'll be seeing any great improvements in line technologies or reduction in prices any time soon.... Shark Skin lines either are or have been on sale at kiene's now. :D :D

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Terry Thomas just got a new Beulah two-handed surf-casting fly rod.

Fly fishing with two-handed surf-casting outfits is popular on the east coast of the USA but I can see it slowing spreading around to different areas now.

Thanks David...........

[David Lee]

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that the point of using a longer rod in the surf is to make longer casts. Isn't that why you use them :question:

If that's the case, It follows that, unless all of the line is held in the air, such a fly caster would have a lot of line off the reel and in the surf to wash around and tangle while getting ready to cast.... Contributing to the line management problems you mentioned. That's an assumption but probably a fair one. :confused:


Darian -

The main reason I use a double in the surf - while you CAN shoot great distance , I truely feel that is secondary , I use a double because it is effortless to cast . The casting motion and load are spread across BOTH hands , so it doesn't wear you out at all . Casting a fly 60-70 feet (the distance where you are going to get bit 99% of the time) is simple , easy , and pretty much idiot-proof (I do it , so that's REALLY idiot-proof !) . Distance is great .... but I've found that much past 80 or so feet away , I do get hits , but cannot seem to make 'em stick .

Using a stripping bucket , and casting 60 feet of line means ...... 9 foot rod , or 12 foot rod , you STILL have the exact same amount of line out , period . I mentioned in part 2 of my (long winded) report that I don't fish without the bucket .... I consider the Stripping bucket THAT important !

With the greater mass and weight of a large diameter , coated line ... it does seem to stay in the basket better (also MUCH more easy to handle) . I still think mono runners have the best feel , but they ARE a pain in the wind .

R/E the Sharkskin lines .....

I have heard they are pretty rough on fingers - I have enough problems w/ cuts and bites , so I'll pass on them .

David

[Darian]

Ditto on the Shark Skin lines.... ;)