Leader twist when fishing clousers

[SLOwag]

I've been using this fantastic pattern alot this this year as I've been seeking out bass and salt water species but I've noticed that when I complete my retrieve and lift the rod to bring the line to the surface for a new cast, the fly is untwisting itself from the twist it developed during the previous cast and retrieve.

I shortened my leaders and used slightly heavier tippet in an attempt to reduce the twist but it is still developing. I'm wondering if I'm putting the twist into the tippet during any false casting or if the fly line itself has some twist in it that is only apparent in the leader. I don't have this problem with similarly weighted flies like a bead head wooly bugger.

Any help, thoughts or theories are welcome. Thanks

[Terry Thomas]

What size fly and what size tippet are you using? As in all fly fishing, the tippet must match the fly. In the Delta we are using 15-20lb. Maxima on size 2-3/0 flies.

[Darian]

Kinda sounds like the twist is occurring during the retrieve. :confused: That's probably a result of some misaliginment of the eye's or materials or an offset hook in the pattern. Clousers will twist on the retrieve if the eye's aren't tied in straight or aligned perpendicular to and at a 90 degree angle from the bend of the hook (hope that makes sense :confused: ). If you tie your own flies, check to see if they're tied in correctly and secure (so they don't rotate around the shank). :cool: Also, the fly might twist during retrieve if the hook bend used is offset from the shank. :cool:

If you haven't used a hook with an offset, you can check for alignment by holding up the fly and looking at it from the front to the rear. If the angle of the eyes is not in a 90 degree alignment with the bend of the hook, the fly may twist on the retrieve. Another, simpler, way to check is when next fishing make a 15' cast and pull the fly thru the water slowly while looking to see how it rides. If it doesn't ride straight up/down, the alignment is probably incorrect. 8)

[john]

I seem to suffer from an inordinate amount of line twist(in the flyline) but I've never seen it result in a fly whirly-gigging. I'm with Darian's explanation.

[michaeln]

I wonder if the OP might be Belgian casting that thing to keep it away from him, and that results in the twisting after a while?

[Darian]

Not trying to be funny here but could you please explain "....Belgian casting...." :?: :?: :?:

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

I think that Darin has hit it.

It can be the eyes and/or wing of the Clouser is not straight with the hook shank.

As Terry said, the leader material can be too small and/or too limp too.

__________________________________________________ ___________________

**Another thing I learned from Andy Guibord is to try not to have a ton of extra running line on the deck of your boat while blind casting for hours. Try to start stripping from the beginning of the running line very near the reel. This will help eliminate the line twist while blind casting and stripping for hours.

[Steve R]

Darian
http://www.midcurrent.com/articles/techniques/lord_belgian.aspx
Steve

[SLOwag]

Some good feedback here. Thanks

I also had to research the Belgian cast, here's a good description from Midcurrent:http://www.midcurrent.com/articles/techniques/lord_belgian.aspx

I also found it stated that this cast can put a twist in your line that can add up over time: http://www.sexyloops.com/flycasting/tbelgian.shtml

I think I perform a "modified Belgian" at times, I typically use a stripping basket to manage the line but I do have some of the running line in the basket so that may add to the problem. For my tippets, I typically use a 4' - 8' of 8 - 12 lb using a #2 - #6 size fly.

It looks like there may be a few factors that contribute to this including getting lazy with my casting form when repeatedly false casting.

Thanks again for the replies.

[GreggH]

I've got just the thing for ya Mr. Slowag. Call John Quigley 415/272-4541 www.twistedleaders.com and tell'm Capt. Gregg sent ya for some of those Twisted Sister leaders he ties up. I've been fishing with them for a couple of months now both subsurface and top water and I love'm. The beauty of these leaders is not only do they turn over big flys but I have him tie in very small barrel swivel which makes foul leaders a thing of the past. Just tell'm what and how your fishing and he will take care of the rest. BTW- Johns one of the best men in the buisness. Super cool!

[Mrs.Finsallaround]

Twisted leaders do help some, but I've found that I twist up my line when I cast incorrectly, repeatedly (especially when fishing 10 hr days), usually from fatigue. The bigger the fly, the worse the twist. This would be in addition to the problem of the eyes being mis-aligned, which will make it "swim" incorrectly during your retrieve.

[Darian]

So that's what a Belgian cast is. And I thought it didn't have a name.... Oh well. :roll:

Robin,.... Think of the air as thin water. A fly that spins in the water (on retrieve) will spin in the air as well.... Contributes to the twist. :nod:

[Mike McKenzie]

I seem to suffer from an inordinate amount of line twist(in the flyline) but I've never seen it result in a fly whirly-gigging. I'm with Darian's explanation.

One major cause of fly line twist is roll casting a sinking line to the surface and roll casting a floater to get it out far enough to load the rod. Every roll cast will put a little twist in your line and will build up if you don't pay attention and remove the twists. An easy way to get the twists out is to remove your fly, strip out 50-60" or so of line and troll it behind your boat while moving from place to place.

Mike

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Local guide John Quigley and Leo Gutterres and other "Delta Commandos" have been R&Ding this new generation of "twisted leaders" that come with a black swivel to attach your tippet to. I hear it is getting very popular...........

We have them at our fly shop and you can get them from John Quigley too.

http://www.twistedleaders.com/Twisted_Leaders.html

This might really eliminate line twist.

[john]

I wish it was that easy Mike. Periodically the flyline twist topic comes up, here and on Blanton's Board. The opinions are many, but the causes seem to narrow down to 3. Roll-casting, not throwing the entire line that's stripped out, or a wrist turn at the stop. Then again, I went to a casting clinic that Brian O'Keefe did and asked him if there was a casting or line management fault/manuever that causes the twist. He says nope. Only cause is stepping on it(or kicking it, or moving it around in the bottom of the boat with your off hand) and inducing the twist. Geez, I don't know, but I'm beginning to believe that not throwing the whole line allows too many opportunities to then kick or step on the line inside the boat. I know I can fix it as you suggest, although I do have a couple lines that I think I waited too long to straighten, 'cuz even the behind the boat thing won't work. For those I rigged a snap swivel to lamp post and stretched the begezus out of the whole line.

[Darian]

Meaning no disrespect, just sitting here envisioning what passersby might be thinking about seeing a guy pulling like #$@^ on one end of a line/string attached to a pole.... :confused: What the $%#&& is that guy trying to do :question: Pull down the pole with a string :question: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[john]

No kidding--especially when you're out here in the hinterlands. i.e. the
land where a 25' cast is a reach and 15' past the water.